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  1. #1
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    Enve 4.5AR Disc - really wide, and some restrictions...

    So, over in the "Quiver Killers" thread, these wheels were mentioned as good (but very expensive) options for the newer generation of 'all road' bikes that have been flooding the market.

    Here are the specs from Enve's site


    SES 4.5 AR Disc - ENVE Composites
    RIM SPECS FRONT REAR
    Depth 49mm 55mm
    Width 31mm 30.5mm
    Hole Count 24 24
    ERD 558mm 547mm
    RTS 28c 28c





    And the rim profile. Note the lack of any real bead hook!


    This is a *really* wide rim. Enve is touting some science that says it's ideal for less than ideal road conditions (classics/cobbles, etc...). Lot's of promotional info in their website and all over youtube (GCN for example) showing them being used just that way.

    Here is where it gets a little strange...

    Over on their support page, there is a document called '4.5 AR Tire Clearance Notice'.

    https://enve.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ar...earance-Notice

    Tech Note: The tire size that will ensure the best aerodynamic performance with the 4.5 AR Disc Clincher is 28c. If you wish to run a larger tire than 28c, the max tire pressure will be less than 80psi. Recommended Tire Size and Pressure for 4.5 AR Disc Wheels can be found below.



    These tire restrictions are quite the challenge. You can't run less than 28c, and the bikes these wheels would be on are likely to have a tire capacity around 32c max, especially with a rim this wide.

    There are only a small handful of tires on the market today that meet their "recommendations". Schwalbe Pro One (28), Hutchinson Sector 28, Clement Strada USH (28), and probably a few others I'm not thinking of.

    I called Enve today and asked their customer service folks what tires they tested with. The person didn't know. So I asked if they had a specific tire they recommend, and he mentioned the Schwalbe Pro One and said 'that's what we in the office are all riding', which is decidedly not a tire I'd consider taking out on an all-road adventure (too fragile - sidewalls tear too easy). So I pressed a little bit, and the rep said the words 'this is a road wheel' and "It's not for cyclocross", etc... Well, yea, there is a lot of territory in between 'road wheel' and 'cyclocross wheel'. About 60% of my miles last year were on forest roads and unpaved rail trails. These are not technical trails with roots and rocks. Just unpaved roads that, while not needing a heavy treaded tire, are a bit too rough for the average road tire.

    Because I ride mixed surfaces all year round, my tire of choice has always been the Continental 4 Season. For me, it's the perfect balance between fast road tire, and durable, flat resistant, all weather tire. I don't ride in mud, so I don't need treaded tires. In 28mm it's really the ideal tire for my mixed surface riding.

    I guess the question I should have asked Enve is, what is the reason for the 'Not Recommended' status on the folding bead non-tubeless tire. Is this based on safety? Perhaps a bead blowing off their bead at low pressure (max pressure is 80psi). Or is it a performance thing?


    I think I'll write up an email with some specific questions and see what their engineers have to say.



    Last edited by Migen21; 11-23-2016 at 09:40 PM.

  2. #2
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    After talking this over with the guys at the shop, I've decided to cancel my order for these wheels. It's kind of a bummer, as I think in a general sense, they would be ideal, but the restrictions on tires are just too much.

    The shop told me the called Enve to ask about the tech notices and tire restrictions. They also asked for a tire recommendation.

    The only answer they were given was 'we all ride Schwalbe'.

    They had a set in a box there and we got them out and tried mounting a Schwalbe Pro One tubeless tire. It was a complete nightmare just to get it over the flange of the rim. Several big strong guys wrestled with this thing trying to get the tire on, and due to the wide flange, it was just waaaay too hard. Eventually it snapped over, but it took some determination. Once the tire was on, getting it sealed up and inflated wasn't an issue, but wow, if you had to pull a tire in the field (to replace a tube or install a boot), under adverse weather (i.e. cold), it would be a serious struggle. That, combined with the limits on tire selection were a deal breaker. The Pro One it notorious for thin sidewalls that tear easily.

    I can't see myself being confident riding these wheels out on the forest and park roads and rail trails, outside of cell coverage.

    I'll let someone else beta test their new 'standards'.

    And good luck to Enve on getting the ETRTO to modify their standards for this rim. I think that is their only chance at getting tire manufacturers to make the design changes necessary to make these wheels safe to ride.
    https://enve.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ar...ETRTO-Standard

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    After talking this over with the guys at the shop, I've decided to cancel my order for these wheels. It's kind of a bummer, as I think in a general sense, they would be ideal, but the restrictions on tires are just too much.

    The shop told me the called Enve to ask about the tech notices and tire restrictions. They also asked for a tire recommendation.

    The only answer they were given was 'we all ride Schwalbe'.

    They had a set in a box there and we got them out and tried mounting a Schwalbe Pro One tubeless tire. It was a complete nightmare just to get it over the flange of the rim. Several big strong guys wrestled with this thing trying to get the tire on, and due to the wide flange, it was just waaaay too hard. Eventually it snapped over, but it took some determination. Once the tire was on, getting it sealed up and inflated wasn't an issue, but wow, if you had to pull a tire in the field (to replace a tube or install a boot), under adverse weather (i.e. cold), it would be a serious struggle. That, combined with the limits on tire selection were a deal breaker. The Pro One it notorious for thin sidewalls that tear easily.

    I can't see myself being confident riding these wheels out on the forest and park roads and rail trails, outside of cell coverage.

    I'll let someone else beta test their new 'standards'.

    And good luck to Enve on getting the ETRTO to modify their standards for this rim. I think that is their only chance at getting tire manufacturers to make the design changes necessary to make these wheels safe to ride.
    https://enve.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ar...ETRTO-Standard
    I realize this is an old thread from 2016.....

    But I was in the market for these wheels and had the same question....what's the max tire size/width for these wheels. I looked around and noticed that a couple of 2017 KANZA 200 winners rode with them on their Niners with 700x40 tires.....?
    EyeGuy

  4. #4
    changingleaf
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    No problem running 700 x 40 on these rims. Enjoy!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by changingleaf View Post
    No problem running 700 x 40 on these rims. Enjoy!
    Ty for confirming 👍
    EyeGuy

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