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  1. #1
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    F3 tubeless blew off the rim??

    I've been running fusion 3 tubeless for about 5 months, On my second rear that had approximatly 600 miles on it. After a brisk (my standards) 56 mile ride & stopped by the lbs for bbq & supplies. I had put my bike inside the cab of my truck while in the store, when I returned to the truck the rear tire had blown off one side of the rim!
    The rims are Dura-ace wh-7900 tubeless wheels, running hutchinson max protect sealant. the tire was inflated to 104 psi before the ride & it was a hot day 93* probably quite a bit hotter inside the truck.

    So what do you think happened? did it get too hot & break the bead? the bead on that side is way stretched out!

    Should this be a warranty issiue?

    Thanks in advance for you replies!
    Last edited by grpweld; 10-31-2012 at 11:54 AM.

  2. #2
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    I've heard of this same thing happening quite a bit here in the Boise area. I saw a car that had a mountain bike in it, with tires pumped full of slime. Easily the biggest mess I have ever seen inside of a car.
    But yes, if the inside of your car was hot enough, it could blow the rim off the tire. This is the first time Ive heard of it happening to tubeless though.

  3. #3
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    I went through a pair of tubeless fusion 3's a couple months ago. They were mounted on a pair of 2012 Campy Eurus 2 way fit wheels running stans sealant. These tires ran flat free throughout the duration of the tires. I ran these tires at 85/90 psi. They were properly mounted and serviced by myself many times without any issues.

    My experience with these tubeless tires was fantastic, so I purchased a second set of fusion 3's. I rode the new set on two 50 mile rides at various speeds up to 40 mph. with no issues. On the third ride just five miles into the ride I came to a short climb (riding approx. 10 MPH). Just before clearing the hill BANG! The first thing that came to my mind was a gun shot but shortly realized my rear wheel wasn't moving anymore because part of the rear tire was off the rim and obstructing the chain stays. And guess what else? Yeah, Stan's sealant all over my legs, rim and bike, what a mess. I always carry a spare tube with me (Thank God), I installed the tube and tire like a conventional clincher thinking i could continue the ride. Well, after adding 30-50 psi the bead looked deformed and looked loose and I mean very loose It looked like it was going to blow off again. I dropped the psi to around 40 and road back home very slowly.

    Took the tires off contacted the vendor, explained the issue and shipped them back to them. After they inspected the tire they concluded it was a defected tire and not an installation issue. They quickly refunded my money and too my surprise they shipped me two free new fusion 3 tires for the inconvenience

    Well, this incident might have been a rare occasion but regardless my confidence level for this particular tire has dropped. I have two fusion tubeless tires currently sitting on a self and not sure if I will be installing them in the near future. I think back on how tragic it might have been on those first two rides going 40 mph down hill.

    I haven't ditched tubeless in general I love the comfort, handling and most important riding flat free for the entire life of tire. I'v been riding on Intensives for a few months now, no flats so far. They do fit allot tighter and are harder to mount than the 3's, so I would think they have a less chance of blowing off, at least I hope so.

  4. #4
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    Love tubeless, but hate Hutchinson due to many QA issues both experienced and read about here. Luckily we have more choices now. I currently prefer IRC but will give the Bontragers a try when it's time.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Cyclery View Post
    But yes, if the inside of your car was hot enough, it could blow the rim off the tire.
    Roughly speaking, a 50F degree rise will raise tire pressure 10 psi. It might also soften the rubber around the bead potentiating a blow-off?
    ... 'cuz that's how I roll.

  6. #6
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    I also have gone away from Hutchinson and am running the Bontrager R3s now. I had what seems to be a common experience in these forums - ran Fusion 3s successfully and then recently had issues with a new batch of tires which were Atoms in my case. I didn't have blow-offs but rather blow-outs from hitting road debris that shouldn't have caused catastrophic failure in the casings.

    At any rate, it seems like there are too many complaints/issues with Hutchinson tubeless tires these days. The blowoff is very scary though, glad it happened in the truck and not out on the road.
    miles to posts ratio is > 30:1

  7. #7
    pmt
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    They simply cannot blow off the rim. You were using the non-tubeless model, which is dangerous. There are two types of Fusion 3, regular and Road Tubeless. It's easy to mix them up.

    If the tire does not have Road Tubeless printed on it, then it's not safe to use without tubes.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmt View Post
    They simply cannot blow off the rim. You were using the non-tubeless model, which is dangerous. There are two types of Fusion 3, regular and Road Tubeless. It's easy to mix them up.

    If the tire does not have Road Tubeless printed on it, then it's not safe to use without tubes.
    It would be good if it turned out to be the case that the OP had the wrong Fusion 3. My LBS ordered the non-tubeless version for me once and I didn't catch their mistake until I got home and was getting ready to mount up the tires.

    I believe it is possible to blow a tire off the rim but I doubt it would happen unless the tire was defective or was being used incorrectly like the dude that put road tires on his MTB wheels and then was surprised when they blew off.
    miles to posts ratio is > 30:1

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmt View Post
    They simply cannot blow off the rim. You were using the non-tubeless model, which is dangerous. There are two types of Fusion 3, regular and Road Tubeless. It's easy to mix them up.

    If the tire does not have Road Tubeless printed on it, then it's not safe to use without tubes.
    No they were not the reg. fusion 3 & I do know the difference

  10. #10
    pmt
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    Quote Originally Posted by grpweld View Post
    No they were not the reg. fusion 3 & I do know the difference
    We'd all love to see how that failed; can you post pictures of the tire and rim?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmt View Post
    We'd all love to see how that failed; can you post pictures of the tire and rim?
    So I'm not able to load pictures so here a link to photo bucket, hope it works


    http://s701.photobucket.com/albums/ww15/grpweld/

  12. #12
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    The bead failed. They don't stretch. They either stay or snap. I have heard of this happening before if the tire was installed with some levers as it can damage the bead to where it eventually pops.

    You might be able to get a replacement from Hutchinson so I would contact them. Tire is done though.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS Alpine View Post
    The bead failed. They don't stretch. They either stay or snap. I have heard of this happening before if the tire was installed with some levers as it can damage the bead to where it eventually pops.
    {Their is no way possible to install F3 tubeless on WH-7900 Dura-ace wheels without using levers PERIOD!}


    You might be able to get a replacement from Hutchinson so I would contact them. Tire is done though.
    {Their is no way possible to install F3 tubeless on WH-7900 Dura-ace wheels without using levers PERIOD!}

    { I have contacted Hutchinson about this & have not heard back yet!}
    & you are correct they are useless now!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by grpweld View Post
    { I have contacted Hutchinson about this & have not heard back yet!}
    & you are correct they are useless now!
    I know how hard they can be to mount. Some people just use metal levers and force them on. If you go slow and use some plastic levers and really soapy water it helps a ton. Also warm the tires in the sun for a bit or slap them in the dryer for 60 seconds or so and the go on a hell of a lot easier.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS Alpine View Post
    I know how hard they can be to mount. Some people just use metal levers and force them on. If you go slow and use some plastic levers and really soapy water it helps a ton. Also warm the tires in the sun for a bit or slap them in the dryer for 60 seconds or so and the go on a hell of a lot easier.
    I use pedros plastic levers!

    Have you personally installed F3s on WH-7900 wheels?

  16. #16
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    I use the Pedro's levers too - but I put my F3s on Campy Zonda wheels - not too difficult and only needed the lever to gently ease on the last bit of bead. Once or twice I've gotten a tubeless tire mounted without the lever at all. There's nothing in the tire instructions indicating levers shouldn't be used, and I think you'd have to use quite a bit of force to damage the carbon bead on the Fusions.
    miles to posts ratio is > 30:1

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by grpweld View Post
    I use pedros plastic levers!

    Have you personally installed F3s on WH-7900 wheels?
    Yes and a set of carbon clinchers among others. Not saying it was your fault. Sometimes the bead is just bad and needs to be replaced.

    Going to be installing some F3 on some kinlin xc279 later this week. I will consume a beer or two to help with the frustration.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristatos View Post
    I also have gone away from Hutchinson and am running the Bontrager R3s now. I had what seems to be a common experience in these forums - ran Fusion 3s successfully and then recently had issues with a new batch of tires which were Atoms in my case. I didn't have blow-offs but rather blow-outs from hitting road debris that shouldn't have caused catastrophic failure in the casings.

    At any rate, it seems like there are too many complaints/issues with Hutchinson tubeless tires these days. The blowoff is very scary though, glad it happened in the truck and not out on the road.
    Where do you get your R3 tubeless from?? Have you found any deals on them yet?

    I'm very interested in trying them

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by grpweld View Post
    Where do you get your R3 tubeless from?? Have you found any deals on them yet?

    I'm very interested in trying them
    I have had no problems with the Fusion 3 but my next tire will be the R3 tubeless in 25c. They seem to be a nice option but I only see them from Trek's online store right now. Doubt there will be any sales on them unless you can convince your local Trek dealer to hook you up.

  20. #20
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    Specialized has a new road tubeless model out, supposedly not an OEM from Hutchinson this time: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/ftb...-road-tubeless

    Also, a Bead Jack makes tubeless installs easy. Once they're worn in a little I am able to install by hand.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddimick View Post
    Specialized has a new road tubeless model out, supposedly not an OEM from Hutchinson this time: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/ftb...-road-tubeless

    Also, a Bead Jack makes tubeless installs easy. Once they're worn in a little I am able to install by hand.
    Thanks DDimick,

    Just bought the bead jack! the specialized roubaix tubeless look great! any reviews yet. I

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by grpweld View Post
    Where do you get your R3 tubeless from?? Have you found any deals on them yet?

    I'm very interested in trying them
    Trek has a couple stores in the San Diego area where I live so I picked them up there. They weren't on sale but at retail price they were less than the Hutchinsons.

    So far I am very happy with the R3. I have probably 300 miles on it - just running it on my rear wheel but am going to replace the Atom on my front wheel with the other R3 that I bought. Having the Atom and R3 on the same bike it becomes obvious that the R3 measures a lot bigger than the Atom even though both are labeled as being 23s.

    I'm not sure if it will help your situation but the R3 according to Bontrager has a kevlar bead instead of a carbon bead. I didn't have any trouble mounting the R3 and I can't remember if I used the lever for the last bit of bead or if they went on solely by hand. I do remember that I did not need to use my compressor to seat the R3 - the floor pump did the trick. R3 is labeled "tubeless ready" and requires sealant. I am running Stans in the R3s and they hold air about the same as the Hutchinson tires with sealant.
    miles to posts ratio is > 30:1

  23. #23
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    Thanks for the feedback. I have been waiting for my fusions to get a flat that it can't seal but no luck so far. I really want to justify getting the R3 tubeless. It sounds like a great tire from the reviews so far. I like that they are true to size vs the Hutchinsons which were undersize.

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