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  1. #51
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    Got my 32 spoke on order and should have them within days...I'm a big guy so want 32 hole, just need to decide on hubs and a wheel builder here in southern California.
    2015 Specialized Tarmac, Ultegra 6800, HED C2 rims
    2014 Specialized Roubaix Expert, Ultegra 6800, HED C 2 rims.
    2012 Giant Defy Advanced 2, Ultegra, Pacenti SL 23 rims.
    Moots VaMoots, Dura-Ace, Pacenti SL 23 rims

  2. #52
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    Dumb question - Key Spoke determination?

    OK, guys, help me out here. With my limited experience I've not run in to this.

    The Pacenti Rim has no obvious offset of the spoke holes that I can determine (yes, Mike, I've done the halo). The holes on the tube side of the rim are offset. This issue is not addressed by Brandt.

    Brandt's diagram has the rim on the lap with the valve stem hole away from you (12 O'Clock). The rim is situated in such a way that the hole to the left of the valve stem hole is offset upward and is where the key spoke goes.

    Which offset on the tube side (up or down) would you use to correlate to an offset upward (that does not appear to be there) on the hub side that I would normally look to place the key spoke?

    Thanks,
    G

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinPaysDoc View Post
    OK, guys, help me out here. With my limited experience I've not run in to this.

    The Pacenti Rim has no obvious offset of the spoke holes that I can determine (yes, Mike, I've done the halo). The holes on the tube side of the rim are offset. This issue is not addressed by Brandt.

    Brandt's diagram has the rim on the lap with the valve stem hole away from you (12 O'Clock). The rim is situated in such a way that the hole to the left of the valve stem hole is offset upward and is where the key spoke goes.

    Which offset on the tube side (up or down) would you use to correlate to an offset upward (that does not appear to be there) on the hub side that I would normally look to place the key spoke?

    Thanks,
    G
    You're trying to think too hard when the answer is staring you in the face. Here, I made you a diagram:


  4. #54
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    That was the logical conclusion, I just wanted to be sure since I hadn't come across this. Thanks.

  5. #55
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    GRAVELBIKE.COM - ride everything

  6. #56
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    I've been riding these rims for a few weeks. They replaced Velocity Deep V's which were OK rims but not amazing quality and the seam is too pronounced. I'm a big guy, 6'3' and 275 lbs. I bought 32 spoke rims from Fairwheel bikes and had them built with Ultegra hubs at Bike Religion here in Dana Point, Ca. I considered using some super cool high end hubs but just didn't feel the need. I'm using 700 X 25 Conti Gator Hardshells.
    I always ride at least 25's and sometime 28's. I was interested in wider rims that would allow the tire to spread out a little and maybe use a lower psi. I was also wanting a rim with better build and quality control.
    What I have found is that I am able to lower my psi from 110 to 100 without worrying about pinch flats and the wheels feels noticeably more stable in turns especially lower speed turns. I'm pretty happy with my wheels now and am getting another set built for my Moots.
    2015 Specialized Tarmac, Ultegra 6800, HED C2 rims
    2014 Specialized Roubaix Expert, Ultegra 6800, HED C 2 rims.
    2012 Giant Defy Advanced 2, Ultegra, Pacenti SL 23 rims.
    Moots VaMoots, Dura-Ace, Pacenti SL 23 rims

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAVELBIKE View Post
    Nice review, you also happen to be what I'll term an "ideal client" in that you are willing to have the professional lead you to the end goal.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikerp View Post
    Nice review, you also happen to be what I'll term an "ideal client" in that you are willing to have the professional lead you to the end goal.
    Thanks. I'm really glad I had Eric @ Ergott determine spoke count, lacing, etc. The end result really exceeded my expectations.
    GRAVELBIKE.COM - ride everything

  9. #59
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    Your article says first impressions, are you going to write more about what it is like to ride these rims?
    2015 Specialized Tarmac, Ultegra 6800, HED C2 rims
    2014 Specialized Roubaix Expert, Ultegra 6800, HED C 2 rims.
    2012 Giant Defy Advanced 2, Ultegra, Pacenti SL 23 rims.
    Moots VaMoots, Dura-Ace, Pacenti SL 23 rims

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by darwinosx View Post
    Your article says first impressions, are you going to write more about what it is like to ride these rims?
    Yes. I usually follow-up with a one-year review.
    GRAVELBIKE.COM - ride everything

  11. #61
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    A SL23 review from an a friend and former industry insider:

    "I got the wheels built up and have had an opportunity to ride them now three times (65miler, 94 miler, & a 45 miler). I thought I'd give you an overview of my build and my riding impressions. I'm 49 years old, a fit/muscular 195lbs and a former track racer with a good sprint. I've had the opportunity to ride/test/develop lots of wheels over the years and have come back to the conclusion that handbuilt wheels suit my needs better than all but the highest end pre-builts.

    The initial impression of the rim quality is very high. I think the anodization is the equal of the best I've seen. I noticed no burrs or milling scraps indication great attention in the QC at the manufacturing level. Weighed on my gram scale both rims were exactly
    440 grams. The wear indicators are a nice touch.

    Components used were are Campagnolo Record Hubs (newest version) 32 hole, Sapim HW rim washers, brass hub washers, Sapim Laser spokes & Alloy nipples for all but drive side where I used std. DB spokes with brass nipples. Wheesmith spokeprep for spoke threads and Dupont Teflon grease (now called Finish Line Extreme Fluoro) for lubricating the rim/ washer/nipple interface.

    Usually on non-eyeleted rims I debur the rim holes with a dremel grindstone, but this time I decided to build with the sapim HW washer.
    It is a time consuming choice but in the end I believe it did allow me to reach the maximum tension of the rim with alloy nipples and the windup prone Laser spokes. If had built without the washers I probably would have deburred/countersunk the interface out of habit , but these were as clean as any I've ever seen.

    The wheels built up beautifully indicating to me that the rims were flat and concentric. Final tension is in the 135kgf range for the front wheel and 145kgf for the rear drive side. Actual weight came to 1605g (725 front/880 rear).

    I have ridden wider rims before but not with the current trend of combing them with 25C tires and lower pressure. I'm sold! This is the missing piece of the puzzle for me. I installed a nos pair of Michelin Pro's (circa '05) 25C and ran them at 85psi. My bike never felt faster or more comfortable. The riding has been fast group pacelines and hard climbing.

    The wheelset these replaced were built with 32h Velocity Fusion rims. Those rims have been entirely functional but needed lots of deburring and the brake track has always been a problem. I feel like the SL23's are a huge improvement.

    I should add that I hadn't encountered a rim that was center drilled before. I don't know the pro's/cons of this, just thought I'd mention it as it did cause me to scratch my head for a minute. Being a Campagnolo rider I would love to see an off center drilling option for the rear wheel. I'd build up a light weight event set in a heartbeat (with King or DT hubs) if those were available.

    Yesterday I had the opportunity to drop by Co-Motion and show the wheels to Dwan. Brian, Zach, and Bob had already seen them since we've been training for the Oregon Gran Fondo together. Now that Dwan's back from Taiwan he'll back in the fold with the gran fondo team.

    Thanks again for helping me out on these - it's much appreciated.

    Great product and one I will give my highest recommendation."

    Cheers,

    Alan Cline

  12. #62
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    Still loving these rims. Best I have owned in 35 plus years of cycling. Going to try tubeless when my Conti hard shells wear out.
    2015 Specialized Tarmac, Ultegra 6800, HED C2 rims
    2014 Specialized Roubaix Expert, Ultegra 6800, HED C 2 rims.
    2012 Giant Defy Advanced 2, Ultegra, Pacenti SL 23 rims.
    Moots VaMoots, Dura-Ace, Pacenti SL 23 rims

  13. #63
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    I built up a set of Pacenti SL23 with 2 wraps of Stan's yellow tape and mounted up a tight new pair of Conti GP4000s tires. The tension drop was dramatic (20%) on both the front and back wheels after inflating the new tires. The rear wheel dish change was also substantial. Wheel trueness was not affected.

    I have seen this issue with Stan's rims, and based on previous research I believe that it is due to a bead seat diameter that is larger than ISO standard (622mm). The larger BSD gives a tight fit between the tire bead and the rim bed which allows it setup tubeless well. It would be interesting if someone could measure the BSD on a SL23 rim.

    I added tension back into both wheels with the tires mounted (and corrected the rear wheel dish) which is the general prescription for Stan's rims also. Unfortunately I have read before that different brands & types of tires will fit tighter or looser on the rim, so I will have to keep an eye on these wheels in the future when I swap tires.

    Has anyone else noticed and/or measured tension change with the tires they mounted on their SL23 rims?

  14. #64
    Journeyman Wheelsmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti View Post

    The wheels built up beautifully indicating to me that the rims were flat and concentric. Final tension is in the 135kgf range for the front wheel and 145kgf for the rear drive side. Actual weight came to 1605g (725 front/880 rear).
    Wow...that's a lot of tension. Good to know that the rim can take it, but I'm assuming that you would not want to try this without the use of nipple washers to help spread the load out around the nipple hole?

    Mine are tensioned at ~110 kgf front, ~125 kgf rear DS, and ~60 kgf rear NDS. Front is 24h laced radial and rear is 28h laced 2x on both sides.

    Overall, I like the rim a lot. Ride quality is excellent and it feels plenty stiff. My build with BHS hubs and Sapim Lasers (front, rear NDS), Sapim Race (rear DS), and hex-head DT Swiss brass nipples came in at 1483g. These will be my goto climbing wheel for hills whose descents would likely cook my carbon clinchers and I think they'll be great with a 25c tire for logging base miles.

    Thanks,
    Bob

  15. #65
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    Kirk (or anyone else helpful) -

    Do any wholesale distributors sell these - or do you sell directly to shops? Seems like a neat rim, and I'd like to have it as an option for customers at my shop.

  16. #66
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    Fairwheel distributes them.

  17. #67
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    I can concur that tension will drop, but I didn't measure it. Half a turn on the drive side got me back to good tension when a tire was mounted and aired up. I typically use about 135kgf for the right, rear now so there is room for the tension to drop a bit and still be sufficient. After all no one rides a wheel without tires on, right? ;-)

  18. #68
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    Had to add 1/2 turn to the DS and 1/4 turn to the NDS to bring everything up to tension after inflating the tires. NDS lost about 30kgf (according to my park tool) with my tires pumped up to 100psi.
    2012 Cervelo S5 Team
    2012 Felt Z6 (sold)

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmorgan View Post
    Had to add 1/2 turn to the DS and 1/4 turn to the NDS to bring everything up to tension after inflating the tires. NDS lost about 30kgf (according to my park tool) with my tires pumped up to 100psi.
    Out of curiousity, which tires did you put on there?

  20. #70
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    Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about. Pacenti SL23

    Quote Originally Posted by eqtrian View Post
    Out of curiousity, which tires did you put on there?
    I'm running Michelin Pro 4 Service Course 23mm


    The front wheel took about 3/4 turn to get back up at 100 psi
    2012 Cervelo S5 Team
    2012 Felt Z6 (sold)

  21. #71
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    Is retensioning after tire installation a good idea? Stans does not recommend it. Different air pressures can cause different readings also. It was my understanding that manufactures were giving max KGF numbers on there rims bare naked. I understand as long as the tire is inflated you are with in max tension, but when/if you deflate the tire it is going to go above the recommendations.
    Last edited by Enoch562; 07-05-2013 at 02:02 PM.

  22. #72
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    Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about. Pacenti SL23

    Inflate them to what you will ride them at and then retension to the proper tension. You need to do something though considering I saw 25% decrease in tension after adding the tire and pumping it up.
    2012 Cervelo S5 Team
    2012 Felt Z6 (sold)

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch562 View Post
    Is retesioning after tire installation a good idea? Stans does not recommend it.

    Different air pressures can cause different readings also. It was my understanding that manufactures were giving max KGF numbers on there rims bare naked. I understand as long as the tire is inflated you are within max tension, but when/if you deflate the tire it is going to go above the recommendations.
    It's sort of understandable why Stans wouldn't recommend it, but a bit ironic too considering that their rims are pretty infamous for losing a lot of tension when the tires get inflated.
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  24. #74
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    Posted a quick update on my Ergott-built SL23 wheels here:

    Updates & Follow-Ups | GRAVELBIKE.com
    GRAVELBIKE.COM - ride everything

  25. #75
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    Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about. Pacenti SL23

    Quote Originally Posted by ergott View Post
    I can concur that tension will drop, but I didn't measure it. Half a turn on the drive side got me back to good tension when a tire was mounted and aired up. I typically use about 135kgf for the right, rear now so there is room for the tension to drop a bit and still be sufficient. After all no one rides a wheel without tires on, right? ;-)
    I typically see a tension drop around 5 but never more than 10 kgf with the tire on and the original tension at 130 kgf on my mainstay builds with rims ranging from 460 grams to 550 grams and 14/15 butted spokes. Never, ever I have experienced tension reductions to the order of 20-25% of the original tension. Such reduction would have me seriously concerned.
    Do you think is because of spoke choice and not enough tension to start with?

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