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Thread: Gumwall tires

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    Gumwall tires

    Bought a set of used wheels that came with Specialized Turbo Cotton tires. The gumwall are starting to grow on me. Does anyone else make a gumwall that is a little more durable. Would love to find a tire with characteristics of Continental GP 4000 but in a gumwall. Does anyone make one?

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    Vittoria Corsa's ride great and are available with gumwalls.
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    Compass
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    Looking at the tire center thickness measurements on the Bicycle Rolling Resistance website, the Corsa G+ is probably the most durable cottonwall open-tubular, but that's a very low bar. My 25mm Corsa G+ lasted 1300mi in the rear before the center ribs wore completely flat and the casing started getting cut up. If a GP4K doesn't suffer a sidewall tear, it would last me more than 2500mi.

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    If I am changing tires at 1300 miles I might give up my fondness for gumwall. Replacing tires does not concern me as much as getting more flats

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch16 View Post
    If I am changing tires at 1300 miles I might give up my fondness for gumwall. Replacing tires does not concern me as much as getting more flats
    Basically what happened was I wore down the tread to the point where glass was perforating the casing easily. This resulted in two flats in two rides, and then I binned the tire. It's the sequence of events that finally pushed me to go tubeless. Now if Vittoria wants to make a Corsa G+ tubeless with more tread-life than their Corsa Speeds or current Corsa G+, I'd reconsider their tires. Likewise if Continental or Michelin want to jump on the tubeless train, I'll be waiting.

    One thing to consider. You cannot use "open tubulars" with rubber glued onto a cotton casing with a turbo trainer. The pressure and heat from the roller will make the glue flow, then squeeze out from under the rubber. This will eventually make the rubber lift up and ruined the tire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    Vittoria Corsa's ride great and are available with gumwalls.
    It probably doesn't matter in the context of the question and they are great tires but they are definitely not gum walls and don't really look like gum walls either. They are just the ordinary side walls in a much lighter shape of tan than gumwalls/spec turbo. Almost white as opposed to borderline orange. Definitely the tire to get though.

    Also check out Challenge tires. Depending which model they either have whiteish side walls or more of a real gum wall. Great tires also, in the same league as Vitt. Unlike Vitt though they are hard to find discounted.

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    I have the Corsa Gs on my bike and I have between 4000-5000 miles on the set and they still look fine. No flats in that time. I'm using latex tubes. I'm switched front to back once in that time.

    I really like the tires and how they look.

    I'm 170 lbs and ride between 5000-6000 mile/year.

    Gumwall tires-gumballs.jpg

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    Veloflex Master is another choice for 320 TPI gumwall clinchers
    Veloflex Master 25


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    Quote Originally Posted by J.R. View Post
    I have the Corsa Gs on my bike and I have between 4000-5000 miles on the set and they still look fine. No flats in that time. I'm using latex tubes. I'm switched front to back once in that time.

    I really like the tires and how they look.

    I'm 170 lbs and ride between 5000-6000 mile/year.
    I can only surmise that those were somewhat relaxed, flat miles. I weigh 135lbs, do a ton of climbing/descending (200mi/20000ft weeks) and never skidded the rear tire. There is simply no way Corsa G+ would last more than 1500mi on a rear, and maybe 2500mi for a front rotated to the rear for me.

    For extra data points, Schwalbe Pro Ones lasted around 2500mi in the rear. Hutchinson Fusion 5 Galactiks lasted around 900mi in the rear. Continental Grand Prix 4000 S IIs lasted around 3000mi in the rear if the sidewalls didn't get sliced up in that time.

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    Yea the Victoria's definitely look more like a white wall. I like the turbo cottons I don't like that the only way to get them is paying LBS list price.
    The Veloflex's don't look bad though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ceugene View Post
    I can only surmise that those were somewhat relaxed, flat miles. I weigh 135lbs, do a ton of climbing/descending (200mi/20000ft weeks) and never skidded the rear tire. There is simply no way Corsa G+ would last more than 1500mi on a rear, and maybe 2500mi for a front rotated to the rear for me.

    For extra data points, Schwalbe Pro Ones lasted around 2500mi in the rear. Hutchinson Fusion 5 Galactiks lasted around 900mi in the rear. Continental Grand Prix 4000 S IIs lasted around 3000mi in the rear if the sidewalls didn't get sliced up in that time.
    It does seem like I have a hard time wearing out tires. I live in central PA and switch to Rubino Pros in the wintertime. These will run 5000-6000 miles before they wear out. I love climbing and descending and like to spend some time each summer in the NC mountains.

    so far this year (not counting rollers) I've ridden a little over 3000 miles with just over 150,000 ft of climbing

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    Quote Originally Posted by ceugene View Post
    Basically what happened was I wore down the tread to the point where glass was perforating the casing easily.
    Not likely. New tread is about the same thickness as the casing, and the mechanism of punctures allows glass (or any sharp object) to penetrate both once the sharp object is imbedded in the tire. You just had bad luck. I've never seen any data that suggests more frequent flats as tread wears.

    Quote Originally Posted by ceugene View Post
    One thing to consider. You cannot use "open tubulars" with rubber glued onto a cotton casing with a turbo trainer. The pressure and heat from the roller will make the glue flow, then squeeze out from under the rubber. This will eventually make the rubber lift up and ruined the tire.
    Not really. Many "open tubulars" are vulcanized just like many tubulars and many clinchers are. Some tires have the tread just glued on the casing with no subsequent curing, but those are relatively rare.

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    i like panaracer paselas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post

    Not really. Many "open tubulars" are vulcanized just like many tubulars and many clinchers are. Some tires have the tread just glued on the casing with no subsequent curing, but those are relatively rare.
    Can you name one of these many? Vittoria, Challenge and Veloflex are the only companies I'm aware of using the term and theirs are not vulcanized.

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    There's a quick explanation of vulcanized tires in here.

    https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/...nd-made-tires/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Can you name one of these many? Vittoria, Challenge and Veloflex are the only companies I'm aware of using the term and theirs are not vulcanized.
    Yep, the ones you mentioned are definitely not vulcanized and Vittoria Corsas are not in any way rare these days. I don' think the Specialized Turbo Cottons or Bontrager R4 320s are vulcanized either, and those are available at any Specialized or Trek dealer.

    Here's a photo I took of the glue being squeezed out and the subsequent ease of tread removal.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BPtdEpyggfS

    e: Even in Jan Heine's Panaracer / Compass puff piece, he states "Many hand-made tires are not vulcanized. Held together with strong glue, they look like the raw tires in the photo above"
    Last edited by ceugene; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch16 View Post
    Bought a set of used wheels that came with Specialized Turbo Cotton tires. The gumwall are starting to grow on me.
    They're starting to grow on you? That's good news, because wider tires are in, LOL! Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.
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    Tires are 28.5mm wide on 27mm wide rims. I just thought the deep wheels and gumwall tire distracted the eye from the extremely large frame. Probably just me.
    Gumwall tires-bike.jpg
    Last edited by sasquatch16; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Can you name one of these many? Vittoria, Challenge and Veloflex are the only companies I'm aware of using the term and theirs are not vulcanized.
    OK, there "were" many because there was a time when a bunch of companies were marketing their clinchers as "open tubulars" as a way to impress the impressionable. Since it is pretty much a meaningless term by itself, it has clearly fallen out of use. I (obviously) don't keep close track of the current marketing buzz

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    At this point it's just a way to differentiate clinchers with cotton casings vs nylon casings. I think the terminology is fine since cotton casings are relatively uncommon on modern clinchers, but ubiquitous with "sew-ups/"

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    I'd love to find a set of gumwalls that are tubeless and 28mm wide. Maybe a manufacturer will make one someday soon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch16 View Post
    Tires are 28.5mm wide on 27mm wide rims. I just thought the deep wheels and gumwall tire distracted the eye from the extremely large frame. Probably just me.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Holy S&^T!! How tall are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ceugene View Post
    At this point it's just a way to differentiate clinchers with cotton casings vs nylon casings. I think the terminology is fine since cotton casings are relatively uncommon on modern clinchers, but ubiquitous with "sew-ups/"
    I wouldn't say "ubiquitous". Conti Sprinters aren't, Tufos aren't, I don't think my Challenge tubulars are, either. There also used to be silk casings....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keoki View Post
    Holy S&^T!! How tall are you?
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