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  1. #1
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    HED Ardennes PSI limit? Why?

    Curiouslty question: why is the HED Ardennes, an allow rim, limited to 90 PSI? Seems low for alloy.

    PS: not looking for a lecture on the benefits of lower tire pressure.

  2. #2
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    Good question. I think it's because of the tubeless compatibility and that's about par for the course for that.

    I had those rims before they were tubeless compatible. I'm pretty sure I would have seen such a limit before buying them if it existed when they were not tubeless compatible. And I routinely used 95-100 with no problems. And I think the only change since then is they are tubeless compatible unlike what I had a few years ago.

    So that's my guess.

    Add another reason to not like this road tubeless thing if my guess is correct. I use 90 now and would rather not be right at any limit so scratch another good rim off the list.

  3. #3
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    The brake tracks start to bow out if you get much beyond that, and they want to leave a healthy safety margin against inaccurate pumps, people leaving wheels in hot cars, etc.

    We measured a bunch of modern alloy and carbon rims a while ago and they all start to bow out somewhere near 90 or 100, on the order of .1mm or so, and then you go up past a certain threshold (that varies from model to model and brand to brand) and all of a sudden WHOMP the brake tracks are .25mm wider than they are with no tire. Carbon you can tell when you've really hit the limit because "crack."

    As for why, I'd say it's more width than tubeless compatibility. The tubeless tire bed bridges the brake tracks better than non-tubeless tire bed. And the limit is likely more relevant for tubeless tires than tubed tires. And the HED site shows a 100 psi limit for C2, which is as I'd remembered it (just got curious and checked).

    Somewhere in the past we did a blog post about this which someone can probably find.

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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    The brake tracks start to bow out if you get much beyond that, and they want to leave a healthy safety margin against inaccurate pumps, people leaving wheels in hot cars, etc.

    We measured a bunch of modern alloy and carbon rims a while ago and they all start to bow out somewhere near 90 or 100, on the order of .1mm or so, and then you go up past a certain threshold (that varies from model to model and brand to brand) and all of a sudden WHOMP the brake tracks are .25mm wider than they are with no tire. Carbon you can tell when you've really hit the limit because "crack."

    As for why, I'd say it's more width than tubeless compatibility. The tubeless tire bed bridges the brake tracks better than non-tubeless tire bed. And the limit is likely more relevant for tubeless tires than tubed tires. And the HED site shows a 100 psi limit for C2, which is as I'd remembered it (just got curious and checked).

    Somewhere in the past we did a blog post about this which someone can probably find.
    The set I was looking at was the disc version. I just find this odd, and wouldn't like to have to live within that limit. I frequently ride at higher pressures.

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    I don’t see how disc or rim brake would change things - substitute sidewall for brake track in what I said.
    Based on your parameters, you should not choose those rims. Simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    I don’t see how disc or rim brake would change things - substitute sidewall for brake track in what I said.
    Based on your parameters, you should not choose those rims. Simple.
    Agreed. Oh, well. Onward and upward. Maybe the Fulcrum Racing 4db will pan out. They look pretty nice.

  7. #7
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    I'd guess it has something to do w/ wider tires (28mm and over) and high pressures. I'd guess that inflating a 25mm tire to 90 or above would be no problem, but when the volume increased and you keep the pressure the same problems can happen. Just like a fat bike rim w/ a limit of 25psi.
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    Absolutely this. Whether you want to go with LaPlace’s Law or Boyle’s Law (both have strength and weakness in applicability here but they are relevant and work out similarly in what they say) a bigger tire at same pressure exerts more casing load which then stresses the tire support/containment mechanism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    Absolutely this. Whether you want to go with LaPlace’s Law or Boyle’s Law (both have strength and weakness in applicability here but they are relevant and work out similarly in what they say) a bigger tire at same pressure exerts more casing load which then stresses the tire support/containment mechanism.
    Makes sense, and convinces me that I need to look elsewhere. Appreciate the input!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
    Makes sense, and convinces me that I need to look elsewhere. Appreciate the input!
    /scratches head and ponders lecturing about crazy-high psi freaks...
    I have a single track mind

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
    Makes sense, and convinces me that I need to look elsewhere. Appreciate the input!
    What size tire and pressure are you talking about? How much do you weigh?

    And just for the hell of it, here's what Enve has to say about pressure:

    Last edited by cxwrench; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:21 PM.
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    Dave and cx are on the right track with this (is my reasoning at least too).

    When something is pressurized you have to pay attention to the total loads and forces that are exerted on the portion that is supporting the loads. That is what you design around for the structure to select material types, thickness and add more support if needed (where there is room). A wider tire will have more air volume and more surface area exerting larger total force than a typical older style skinny tire and thin rims (let's say 19mm wide or less are considered narrow rims these days since 24-25mm is becoming more common).

    For example I head a story of a large dome structure (think golf dome sized but an actual building not an inflatable looking thing) where they accidentally pressured the entire interior to about 4psi. Now, while 4psi doesn't sound like much at it still made a large canvas covered door to vent the place cave in due to the pressure. We are taking a large few thousand square foot door that is very wide and tall. Applying a 4psi force across that entire surface area and you have 10000+lbs of force total pushing against it (not designed for that sort of thing as it just keeps the rain, wind and snow out when the door is closed).

  13. #13
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    Tubes wearing against spoke holes

    Have a set of HED Ardennes disc wheels that I didn't get any docs with. I started out running them with 23 tires and tubes at 100-105 PSI. During a puncture repair I noticed the HED plastic tubeless rim tape (with proper number of wraps) had sunk in around the rim spoke holes and the tubes were deformed and wearing against the spoke holes. The wear on the tubes was worrisome enough that I replaced the rim tape and tubes. So beside what has already been mentioned, tube wear against the spoke holes could be an issue at higher than recommended pressures. I run under 90 now and haven't had the tube wear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peanya View Post
    /scratches head and ponders lecturing about crazy-high psi freaks...
    I weigh 175# and have found that running about 105 in the back tire and 95 in the front is what works for me. I honestly don't care what anyone else runs; this is what works for me, my weight, my bike, and my riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    What size tire and pressure are you talking about? How much do you weigh?

    And just for the hell of it, here's what Enve has to say about pressure:

    What Enve wheel is that for? If it's the 4.5 then it has no hooked bead and can't handle higher pressures. Honestly, I don't get that at all.

    I weigh 175# and have found that 105/95 is what works for me. And i'd never, ever buy a wheel without a hooked bead since I run tubed clinchers (GP 4000s II).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
    I weigh 175# and have found that running about 105 in the back tire and 95 in the front is what works for me. I honestly don't care what anyone else runs; this is what works for me, my weight, my bike, and my riding.
    If you have experimented and that is what works for you, who is anybody to judge? Depending on what tire width you are using 95F/105R isn't unreasonable. I run 28mm tires on my road bike, weigh 185# and run 70F/100R as that works for me as I ride more upright. What width tires do you run?

    If I were you, I would look at some of DT Swiss's wheelsets to see what they have to offer.

    Interesting about wider rims having a lower max PSI. The max PSI listed on the side of my Stan's Rapid 28 mountain rims is 38PSI.
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  17. #17
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    Does this mean they don't sell the 23mm rim in wheels anymore? That rim isn't tubeless. I know they still sell them as rims only.

    To the OP, what tire size do you run 95/105 at? Be aware that tire size should affect the pressure you run no matter who you are. 95/105 with 23mm tires is entirely different than 28mm tires at the same pressure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ergott View Post
    Does this mean they don't sell the 23mm rim in wheels anymore? That rim isn't tubeless. I know they still sell them as rims only.
    I believe the OP is looking for disc rims. The C2 (not plus) is not available in a specific disc version. Of course, it could still be used with disc brakes, but I'm guessing the OP would rather not have a brake track.
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  19. #19
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    Gotcha. See that a few posts later.

    My second question still stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    If you have experimented and that is what works for you, who is anybody to judge? Depending on what tire width you are using 95F/105R isn't unreasonable. I run 28mm tires on my road bike, weigh 185# and run 70F/100R as that works for me as I ride more upright. What width tires do you run?

    If I were you, I would look at some of DT Swiss's wheelsets to see what they have to offer.

    Interesting about wider rims having a lower max PSI. The max PSI listed on the side of my Stan's Rapid 28 mountain rims is 38PSI.
    Hi again,

    I'm running 25s which work well for me. And yes, I am looking at the DT Swiss offerings. Strange, though, their allow rims are pretty narrow. I may go the custom route with the HED C2 rims.

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    700 x 25

    Quote Originally Posted by ergott View Post
    Does this mean they don't sell the 23mm rim in wheels anymore? That rim isn't tubeless. I know they still sell them as rims only.

    To the OP, what tire size do you run 95/105 at? Be aware that tire size should affect the pressure you run no matter who you are. 95/105 with 23mm tires is entirely different than 28mm tires at the same pressure.
    Agreed on the relationship between tire size and pressure. I'm running Conti GP 4000s II 25s.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
    Agreed on the relationship between tire size and pressure. I'm running Conti GP 4000s II 25s.
    Personally I go about 85ish rear/75ish front at 170lbs with 25mm tires mounted on a 24mm internal width rim. That said, I wouldn't say 105/95 is crazy high. Generally for any tire I draw the line at around 100psi...if more pressure is needed what you really need is a bigger tire, but if you've messed around with it and decided on 105 I'd only make a half-hearted attempt to change your mind.
    Last edited by cxwrench; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:15 AM.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
    Agreed on the relationship between tire size and pressure. I'm running Conti GP 4000s II 25s.
    That's pretty typical. I'd look at Boyd or Pacenti options for that tire size. Altamont and Forza are great rims. So is Easton R90 SL. You can go stock or custom.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergott View Post
    Gotcha. See that a few posts later.

    My second question still stands.
    Yes, I agree. That is why I cut it out of the quote I replied to.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
    I'm running 25s which work well for me. And yes, I am looking at the DT Swiss offerings. Strange, though, their allow rims are pretty narrow.
    Really? I just looked and everything I see is either 18 or 20mm internal width.

    Quote Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
    I may go the custom route with the HED C2 rims.
    You won't go wrong here as long as you don't mind having a brake track on a disc brake setup. Another good choice would be the H Plus Son Archetype. They have a brake track, but it is anodized in the same color as the rim, so you won't notice it very easily.
    Last edited by Lombard; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:20 AM.
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