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  1. #1
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    Hutchinson Tubeless Intensive 2 BLOWS off my DT R460 rims.

    I built up a front wheel using DT R460 (tubeless compatible rim). Sealed it with 2 layers 3M 8896 Strapping tape (it's same polypropylene, but slightly thinner than Stans- almost identical to Stans). No tape obstructing the side wall or bead. Mounted Huchinson Intensive 2 tubeless tire (but admit I did use a plastic tire lever - perhaps this is my fatal mistake).

    Tire bead easily seats, making the usual snapping noise when I give it a little CO2 blast. First time, I put a whole CO2 canister in (without thinking of the 100 PSI limit on the tire). Boom! Entire tire blows off the rim. Try again with just a small squirt of CO2. It will hold low pressure up to about 40 PSI for few minutes before air leaks out, at the edge of rim - based on soap bubbles.

    Added 30 CC Stans sealant, reinflated to 40-50 PSI. Lot of leaking around the rim edge at first, but after shaking all soap bubbling stops and tire appears to be sealed.

    Inflate slowly and incrementally by 10 PSI, waiting 30 sec between inflations. 50 -- then 60 -- 70 PSI. Wait a 1 minute, no problem. Inflate to 80 PSI and 10 seconds later tire explodes off rim second time .

    Did I ruin my tire by installing with plastic lever? Did blowing off the rim the 1st time cause the problem?

    American Classic hub, Sapim Laser spokes and the DT R460 tubeless rim. If you have ever built with Sapim Laser spokes, you know that it's a time consuming technical wheel build. Now I'm afraid to use this wheel. The thought of a tire coming off this rim while riding would be catastrophic. Any thoughts

  2. #2
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    I use tire levers on "tight" tubeless tires like Pro Ones all the time with no issues, though I guess it's possible you could have really ham-fisted it and damaged the bead. Still highly unlikely.

    My bet is the first CO2 canister inflated the tire way past its rated max pressure. Or it was defective and couldn't handle ~100psi. Either way, the first blow-off probably damaged the bead more than your use of levers.

    Also even with wide rims, I don't typically use levers with my Hutchinson-made tubeless tires. They go on quite easily.

    e: Unrelated, but Stan's is not really good for road tubeless.
    Last edited by ceugene; 09-08-2017 at 07:26 PM.

  3. #3
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    I'm pretty gentle with the plastic levers. I start at the edges and ease the bead up incrementally on each side till it pops on.

    You are right though. I took a second Hutchinson Intensive 2 tubeless and got it on using my hands. Used a soapy sponge only on the section of tire and rim. Will see if second tire blows off. I'm going to seat the bead with a tiny blast of CO2, then will add the sealant through the valve, and not disturb or take the bead on or off after this first mount. Just got to get a syringe to fill this tomorrow.

  4. #4
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    Checked my tires carefully. Sold to me as "Tubeless" but misrepresented. They are Intensive 2 -- intended to be used with tubes. Thats why they blow off. Bead is not carbon. Will return them to shop.

  5. #5
    Russian Troll Farmer
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceugene View Post
    ......My bet is the first CO2 canister inflated the tire way past its rated max pressure. Or it was defective and couldn't handle ~100psi. Either way, the first blow-off probably damaged the bead more than your use of levers........
    From working on cars, you used to see this on European tubeless tires a lot, just a slight bit of damage on the bead, and it would never hold air again, requiring a tube. Seemed to be very common on 13" continentals, and especially on those old skinny 15" Contis for VW's.

    BTW, just how much of a mess did all that sealant cause when being released?
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  6. #6
    wheelbuilder
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    Quote Originally Posted by bla00109 View Post
    Checked my tires carefully. Sold to me as "Tubeless" but misrepresented. They are Intensive 2 -- intended to be used with tubes. Thats why they blow off. Bead is not carbon. Will return them to shop.
    Both Hutch and Schwalbe use the same tire model name for their tubeless and clincher tires. I think that's a big mistake as you now see. I know the tubeless tires are marked as such, but there's definitely room for confusion for someone that doesn't do a lot of reading up on the topic. It's not unreasonable to simply walk into a shop and ask for tubeless tires and assume you got the right product. A simple name change would solve this.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    ...
    BTW, just how much of a mess did all that sealant cause when being released?
    Man, I was hoping for pictures. You know, sealant plastered all over the wall and floor, etc......
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  8. #8
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    No Time Toulouse-- Not much mess in the garage. Most of the 30 cc sealant remained on tire surface. Next time, I'll add glitter to make the experience more enjoyable.

    CEUGENE- Why don't you recommend Stan's sealant for road?
    (20 years ago, I road tubulars and loved the comfort and ride, till I had one blow off a front rim during a biathlon while on aerobars at 20 MPH. Thatwas a modest mishap atage 40,
    But would be a catastrophe at current age. This is my first foray into road tubeless and was hoping a larger tire at 80-90 PS I would recreate that lovely tubular feel. (But this may be just the doddering cognitive longing for earlier youth from my middle age gray matter).)

  9. #9
    Russian Troll Farmer
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    Quote Originally Posted by bla00109 View Post
    ...
    CEUGENE- Why don't you recommend Stan's sealant for road?
    Because EVERY test shows that Orange Seal works better in EVERY respect. The only thing that Stan's has to reccomend it is the smaller, more convenient single-use size. I use Orange Seal on my better tubulars, BTW.


    Quote Originally Posted by bla00109 View Post
    20 years ago, I road tubulars and loved the comfort and ride, till I had one blow off a front rim ....
    Blow OFF a rim??? I'm gonna question this. I've had tubulars FLAT, sometimes fairly quickly, but the glue has always kept them attached. Even in demanding circumstances, a properly glued tubular, even flat, should hold firm. Could you mean you had one ROLL off? In that case, your glue job was bad.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  10. #10
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    Had stitching fall and it literally exploded

  11. #11
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    I just set up some wheels with the DT R460 rims with 38C G-One tubeless tires. FYI both rims leaked at the rim joint. Disappointing for a "tubeless" rim. Stans sealant took care of it and everything is holding fine.

  12. #12
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    I think CO2 and Stan's don't play so well together, although this doesn't sound like your problem.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Because EVERY test shows that Orange Seal works better in EVERY respect. The only thing that Stan's has to reccomend it is the smaller, more convenient single-use size. I use Orange Seal on my better tubulars, BTW.
    Not just tests/reviews from publications, but personal anecdotes from converts. Orange Seal takes longer to dry up, seals better and is also easier to clean off should you feel the need to clean dried sealant off the interior of a tire (not a big deal since 40mL of sealant weighs 5g after evaporation.)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceugene View Post
    Not just tests/reviews from publications, but personal anecdotes from converts. Orange Seal takes longer to dry up, seals better and is also easier to clean off should you feel the need to clean dried sealant off the interior of a tire (not a big deal since 40mL of sealant weighs 5g after evaporation.)
    Hey everybody. Thanks so much for your replies. The information about Orange sealant is particularly intriguing. Thanks so much for your interest in my original post.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergott View Post
    Both Hutch and Schwalbe use the same tire model name for their tubeless and clincher tires. I think that's a big mistake as you now see. I know the tubeless tires are marked as such, but there's definitely room for confusion for someone that doesn't do a lot of reading up on the topic. It's not unreasonable to simply walk into a shop and ask for tubeless tires and assume you got the right product. A simple name change would solve this.
    So True.
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bla00109 View Post
    Had stitching fall and it literally exploded
    Oh, so then I assume it was an older tire that had 'dry rot', which you pumped up to max pressure? Yeah, I could see that happen....although I'd bet that MOST of the tire remained glued.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  17. #17
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Because EVERY test shows that Orange Seal works better in EVERY respect. The only thing that Stan's has to reccomend it is the smaller, more convenient single-use size. I use Orange Seal on my better tubulars, BTW.




    Blow OFF a rim??? I'm gonna question this. I've had tubulars FLAT, sometimes fairly quickly, but the glue has always kept them attached. Even in demanding circumstances, a properly glued tubular, even flat, should hold firm. Could you mean you had one ROLL off? In that case, your glue job was bad.
    ^This^ Orange Seal is the best I've used.

    I've never seen a tubular blow up it's casing...if the stitching failed that would be against the rim. That's actually hard to believe.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    I've never seen a tubular blow up it's casing...if the stitching failed that would be against the rim. That's actually hard to believe.
    I have seen casing failures on sidewalls that got nicked somehow and then the sidewall blew right out. I've also seen casing failures at the edge of the chafing tape where the tire was separating from the tape and that resulted in the tire flexing and the casing getting "chewed through" I've been off tubualrs for going on 20 years and these experiences were in the 70s and 80s. Tires have changed a lot since then.

  19. #19
    changingleaf
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    Agreed!

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