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  1. #1
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    Hutchinson tubeless tire issue.

    I recently built a set of wheels for a customer, using Derby road tubeless rims.

    The customer installed Hutchinson Fusion 5 all season tires, along with his preferred sealant -- Stans.

    He said the tires beaded up beautifully, and he really likes the ride.

    So far so good.

    But when he comes out to the bike in the morning, the tires have leaked down to about 10psi overnight, down from the ~90 he's riding them at. He's ridden tubeless with these tires on other wheels (Shimano and Reynolds, I believe) and not had any problems with them leaking down.

    Thinking that maybe he didn't have enough sealant in there, I encouraged him to add a bit more to each wheel, with the idea that once he had 'enough' in there, it would seal all the pinholes, the tires would stop leaking down, and then he could syringe the excess back out. He was game, so he did it. And with 4oz of sealant per tire (good god!) the leaking down stopped. He rode them that way 3 or 4 times to be sure, then sucked most of it back out.

    And immediately the leaking down started again.

    He added more back in, rode them that way a few times, observed that the leaking stopped, then sucked it back out. And again, the leaking commenced again as soon as he was back down to minimal sealant. I think he's running ~1.5oz at minimum.

    Thinking Stans wasn't thick enough, I encouraged him to try Orange Seal, and he did, and it didn't change anything -- still leaking overnight, unless he's running 4oz per tire. But no one wants that much added perimeter weight, so he sucks it back out, and then they're back to leaking.

    When he brought the rear in this morning I sprayed soapy water all over it, hoping to see an obvious leak. I thought maybe the tape had gotten wrinkled or dinged somehow in installing the tires. But even all soaped up there's nothing coming out of the valve or nips. And nothing bubbling between the bead and rim. There is some, very minor, bubbling happening in a few places on the sidewall of the tire. Enough that when you consider how little air volume these tires have, you can easily see it losing most of it's air overnight.

    I contacted Derby and he hasn't had anyone else report this problem, so he doesn't really have a patent solution to offer. And it doesn't seem like the problem lies with the rims, when it's the tire's sidewalls that are seeping.

    I've sent an email off to Hutchinson but, shocker, haven't gotten a response.

    Is this a common thing? Do you have an idea or a solution? I'd love to hear about it.

    Thanks for any help.
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  2. #2
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    A month+ and no one has anything to add to this?

    The customer just stopped in and asked if I had any better ideas on how to solve it, hence the bump of the thread.

    Thanks for any experience/opinions.
    www.LaceMine29.com

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  3. #3
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    Did you try to mount a different tubeless tire and try the 1.5 and 4 oz of sealant and observe? That way you will at least have an idea if it's the tire or the wheel (or the specific tire/wheel combination).

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinball View Post
    Did you try to mount a different tubeless tire and try the 1.5 and 4 oz of sealant and observe? That way you will at least have an idea if it's the tire or the wheel (or the specific tire/wheel combination).

    He's mounted 2 different Hutchinson tires, with identical results.
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  5. #5
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    First, I've never seen a tire not seal eventually, and I've never had to chase one anything like this hard for a road tire. Regular mtb tires, sure some of them leaked gallons through before the sidewall porosity was overcome. The new generation of road tubeless tires is really aggressive on shaving weight and gaining suppleness, both of which are the enemy of easy sealing.

    A switch to a non-Hutchinson tire on the current wheel, and installing the current tire on a different wheel, would tell you what you need to know. Pretty simple - is it the tire or the wheel. I'd bet it's the tire, but you can't know until you do that basic troubleshooting protocol.

    It may in fact be that a lot of thinner Stan's sloshing around in there would seal the sidewall porosity better than thicker Orange Seal. It may also be that very thick Cafe Latex would be more effective than either you've tried thus far.

    Although I really like two of the cross tubeless tires they make, I've tried hard to communicate with Hutchinson US in the past and they were uniquely unresponsive in an industry that seems to specialize in unresponsiveness.

  6. #6
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    It sounds like the rim needs to be re-taped.

    When I've lost air on a tire that seems otherwise sealed, it's because air is leaking out the rim tape. The sealant keeps air in the tire for long periods of time, but the leaking around the rim tape is slow.

    I've lost 10-20 psi overnight before with Schwalbe tires ... when I put new rim tape on the wheel, the problem was solved. Given it's happening with two different tires, it's likely time for new tape.
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  7. #7
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    Thanks for the ideas.

    I agree, in theory, that it must be the tape and/or rim in some way.

    That said, since he's losing ~40+ psi overnight, why does a 'soap test' not identify it? Seems like there should be at least the tiniest bubble at one of the nips or the valve, yet each time he or I have soaped it up nothing has shown up.

    Re-taping is easy and I will try that next. I'm just more interested in knowing the solution before proceeding, instead of lobbing parts (or tape) at it and hoping. And this doesn't necessarily seem like a guarantee.

    Any other ideas/experiences appreciated.
    www.LaceMine29.com

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Thanks for the ideas.

    I agree, in theory, that it must be the tape and/or rim in some way.

    That said, since he's losing ~40+ psi overnight, why does a 'soap test' not identify it? Seems like there should be at least the tiniest bubble at one of the nips or the valve, yet each time he or I have soaped it up nothing has shown up.

    Re-taping is easy and I will try that next. I'm just more interested in knowing the solution before proceeding, instead of lobbing parts (or tape) at it and hoping. And this doesn't necessarily seem like a guarantee.

    Any other ideas/experiences appreciated.
    A "Soap Test" won't necessarily show with a slow leak ... I know it didn't on mine. You won't hear or see it as the leak is too slow and any bubble will be inside the rim where you wouldn't see it.

    Re-tape the wheel and I'm guessing the issues go away.
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  9. #9
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    Agreed. Its the tape, I had issues with Stanís/Tesa tape and have switched to this generic green powdercoat masking tape. Itís somewhere in between Stanís and Velocityís tapes in thickness and stretchiness...just right IMO.

  10. #10
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    When air leaks past the rim tape, it comes out the valve stem hole. I'm having issues with my new Stan's wheels right now and it seems I keep messing up the tape. All the air comes out around the valve stem.

  11. #11
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    I know this is an old thread but did anyone ever get a resolution. I have just bought some Hunt wheels which came with Hutchinson Sector tyres fitted professionally. I have just started using them and they lose about 20-30 psi overnight. Dunking the tyres shows a small amount of air leaking from the tyre wall where it meets the main rubber strip which contacts the road. I have tried adding more Stans latex but it doesn't seem to make any difference. Here is a video of the air leaking in micro bubbles from the tyre -

    regards

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    When air leaks past the rim tape, it comes out the valve stem hole. I'm having issues with my new Stan's wheels right now and it seems I keep messing up the tape. All the air comes out around the valve stem.
    Better late than never...If you're having problems w/ air leaking on a tubless wheel you can look for 2 things if think you've looked everywhere and they keep leaking.

    1) Check the tape. It needs to be stuck against the rim really well and overlapped a bunch.

    2) Check where the valve hole is. I NEVER poke a hole in the tape w/ a sharp object, the tape is likely to tear and then the rubber grommet on the valve stem won't cover the tear. I heat up a spoke w/ a propane torch and melt the hold for the valve. I NEVER have problems w/ leaks at the valve stem.
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  13. #13
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    This must be the 2 dozenth thread about the same "Hutchison tubeless issue". Can't we just make it a sticky, and save the wasted bandwidth?
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

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