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  1. #1
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    Kinlin 270 Stress Cracks

    Anybody had them show up? I got a set that has been ridin for close to 2 years that are starting to show some cracks on 3 spoke holes. 155 lb rider that has put 5-6k miles on them, but was kinda surprised to see the cracks. Wheel is still round and true, current tension is around 95-105kgf. I think they were closer to 116 when I built them originaly.

  2. #2
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    I had some cracking issues on the 200s but I have yet to see it on the 270s. Just the rear DS I assume or both rims?

  3. #3
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    Last year, I found a tiny crack at the spoke hole on my Kinlin 300 rear. The previous winter, I had two pinch flats from slamming into potholes, and probably other big hits that didn't cause a flat. (Riders don't always call out road hazards on night rides!)

    I rode the wheel all summer, checking the crack after each ride. Then, about August, the crack started growing, so I replaced the rim.

    That's a lot of abuse for a rim.

  4. #4
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    Correct, rear drive side only. It was a 28 hole rim. 3X Race DS/ 2X Lasers NDS.

  5. #5
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    If you rebuild, consider using nipple washers. I used 'em for my recent wheels. I would imagine (hope?) that they would reduce spoke hole cracks. They weigh just 9 grams total (4f, 5r) and add 2x 0.7mm to the ERD.
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  6. #6
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    Good call Mike. Neuvation has had some issues with cracks around drive side spoke holes also. John is now using nipple washers on his wheels too.
    If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by redondoaveb View Post
    Good call Mike. Neuvation has had some issues with cracks around drive side spoke holes also. John is now using nipple washers on his wheels too.
    I don't imagine I'll do a wheelbuild without them from now on. They give me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing they're there - for almost no weight too.

    I have a set of Blackset Race wheels from Bicycle Wheel Warehouse and they're 4 years old and have zero spoke hole cracks. They have lots of miles on them. This was their early rim that was a sub-400g unit. I see that my set have nipple washers. They now use a new rim extrusion that weighs 420grams.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    I don't imagine I'll do a wheelbuild without them from now on. They give me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing they're there - for almost no weight too.

    I have a set of Blackset Race wheels from Bicycle Wheel Warehouse and they're 4 years old and have zero spoke hole cracks. They have lots of miles on them. This was their early rim that was a sub-400g unit. I see that my set have nipple washers. They now use a new rim extrusion that weighs 420grams.
    Yep, there is no downside to using them and it's nice having the reassurance of having a safe wheel.
    If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

  9. #9
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    I had a crack in a XR-270 rear rim at the spoke hole. Around two years old.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch562 View Post
    Anybody had them show up? I got a set that has been ridin for close to 2 years that are starting to show some cracks on 3 spoke holes. 155 lb rider that has put 5-6k miles on them, but was kinda surprised to see the cracks. Wheel is still round and true, current tension is around 95-105kgf. I think they were closer to 116 when I built them originaly.
    Yup, mine had a bunch of tiny hairline cracks. I'm about 150 and noticed the cracks at about 7K miles but given that there were at least 12 of these tiny cracks I'm guessing the first of them happened well before I noticed at 7K.

  11. #11
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    Lightweight, deeper profile rim. Something has to give.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    If you rebuild, consider using nipple washers.
    One problem with those is if the rim cavity isn't large enough to accommodate them, then it makes things worse. They press out on the sidewalls.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch562 View Post
    Anybody had them show up?
    Only time that has happened to a customer of mine on any rim was an XR270. I was amazed because I'd built so many of them with no issues. He was in FL which probably didn't help.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rruff View Post
    One problem with those is if the rim cavity isn't large enough to accommodate them, then it makes things worse. They press out on the sidewalls.
    A point maybe. I used the round ones on a set of 19mm width rims recently and in the interests of this thread I got my own new wheel (off the bike for the winter), peeled back the rim tape and with magnifying glass and flashlight, took a close look. I could see down through the tape bed hole that the washer seemed to fit into the cavity just fine. I can see the walls curving up and the washer stops just at the start of this curve. I just wish I had a junk rim of this make that I could hacksaw and take a definitive look.

    I don't know for sure but I would imagine that the rim cavity is wider on the new 23mm wide rims than on my 19.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    I don't know for sure but I would imagine that the rim cavity is wider on the new 23mm wide rims than on my 19.
    It seems to me its got more to do with the rim profile and depth than the rim width.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcgriz View Post
    It seems to me its got more to do with the rim profile and depth than the rim width.
    Probably....maybe. I guess the only definitive way to know is to obtain some rim profile slices.
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  17. #17
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    My main point of reference is the washers that Stan supplied for the 340s. They definitely made the sidewalls bulge... and that rim has a pretty rounded and wide top compared to many. I have no idea if this made things worse than the alternative, but I decided not to use the washers for that reason. As I recall those where round washers, but I don't know who made them. If there is room they definitely shouldn't hurt.

    Like I said, out of a thousand something wheels (and nearly all of those were rims without eyelets) only one came back. I use a spherical burr on the inside and shape the spokes at the nipple... I don't know if that helps, but it might. I also use a gnarly marine anti-seize which should interrupt corrosion at the nipple-rim interface, which is another possible issue.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    Probably....maybe. I guess the only definitive way to know is to obtain some rim profile slices.
    Since I have a bad rim now... I'll hack it up and see if washers will fit in there.

    I was hoping these rims where more robust than this, or maybe it was just a thin extrusion spot. I thought just maybe it was something I did wrong like over tension, unfortunately that did not pan out. Any chance I could be sqeezin too hard when I stress relief? I work 'em over pretty good, but have never seem any imediate problem show up.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rruff View Post
    My main point of reference is the washers that Stan supplied for the 340s.
    I don't have personal experience with that rim but for it to make that weight it has to have serious compromises in construction, surely? It has to be a very thin extrusion which would amplify nipple pressure bulges. Heck I remember some of the very light tubular rims of the '70s & '80s that had colored anodized sidewalls. As the brake pads wore the anodizing off the rims the rim bulges could be easily seen from 20' away.
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  20. #20
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    Yes, they eventually made the rim thicker at the top (spoke holes) and gained ~40g per rim.

    All the lighter (and I'd even put the XC279 in that category) rounded Al rims distort a little at the spoke holes, but that isn't from the nipples (or washers) pushing out on the sidewalls... it's just the tension distorting the shape.

    Which washers did you use?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rruff View Post
    Which washers did you use?
    The round polyax ones that BHS sells.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch562 View Post
    Any chance I could be sqeezin too hard when I stress relief? I work 'em over pretty good, but have never seem any imediate problem show up.
    Definitely isn't the source of the issue. Sounds to me like a defective rim, not poor build quality.

  23. #23
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    [QUOTE=Enoch562;4514910]Anybody had them show up? I got a set that has been ridin for close to 2 years that are starting to show some cracks on 3 spoke holes. 155 lb rider that has put 5-6k miles on them, but was kinda surprised to see the cracks. Wheel is still round and true, current tension is around 95-105kgf. I think they were closer to 116 when I built them originaly.[/QUOTE

    I have had 3 Klinin 270 rims develop cracks around the DS spoke nipples, one 24 spoke, and two 28 spoke rims(all wheels 2x). All developed the cracks around 2000/2500 miles. The 24 and one of the 28 hole rims were built by a commercial builder. The other 28 hole rim by me. I will add that i'm a clyde(210-225), and I ride a lot of hills and small mts. Yes I know that these wheels are probably to low of a spoke count for me. I now have two 32 spoke 3x wheels. No problems so far.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    I don't have personal experience with that rim but for it to make that weight it has to have serious compromises in construction, surely? It has to be a very thin extrusion which would amplify nipple pressure bulges. Heck I remember some of the very light tubular rims of the '70s & '80s that had colored anodized sidewalls. As the brake pads wore the anodizing off the rims the rim bulges could be easily seen from 20' away.


    OK, I just stumbled across this thread now, so making this a thread dredge Wednesday!

    I just had to comment because I find it hard to believe that a rim would deform before a washer would while pressing against the rim sidewalls. Are these 340 rims really that thin?

    Could anybody see a reason not to use nipple washers on a pair of HED C2s?

    And is there any validity to the idea that nipple washers allow more water to get inside the rim in a rainstorm?
    Last edited by Lombard; 12-09-2015 at 07:03 AM.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    OK, I just stumbled across this thread now, so making this a thread dredge Wednesday!
    There's a charge for thread-dredges over a year old - beers all round.
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    Everything above, up to that blue line, is IMO IMO.

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