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Thread: Mavic Wide Rim

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    Mavic Wide Rim

    Hi everyone,

    Does anyone know if Mavic makes a wide rim aluminum clincher wheel? I really like the Ksyrium line but I cannot tell if they have a wide rim version.

    Any help would be appreciated. If they do not, any suggestions would be welcome as well. I typical ride alone and do some duathlons during the season so I am looking for a wheel for training and racing. I have Fulcrum 5's now and would like to upgrade a bit.

    Thanks in advance,
    Darrell

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    They do wider rims in their touring/700c all road line. I built wheels with their entry levels A119 rims for my CX bike when I use it as a commuter. I'm using 37mm conti sport contact tires. They are heavier than open pro at 540gr though.

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    Why do you want wide rims? Let's start there. What are you hoping to gain over the Fulcrums you currently have.

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    Great question, Krisdum! From what I have read, with a wider rim, I can have a larger contact patch, use less psi, less rolling resistance,and they will behave more like a tubular tire. Ideally, I would like to drop some grams from my fulcrums while still staying aluminum. Hope that makes sense!

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    Quote Originally Posted by shibui View Post
    Great question, Krisdum! From what I have read, with a wider rim, I can have a larger contact patch, use less psi, less rolling resistance,and they will behave more like a tubular tire. Ideally, I would like to drop some grams from my fulcrums while still staying aluminum. Hope that makes sense!
    Ok, that helps. And you realize you'll need to re-adjust your brakes if you swap out wheels with different rim widths, right? Just trying to help you think though all the pros and cons.

    There are really only 2 options that I am aware of. The Velocity A23 and the HED C2 aka Belgian. Both are 23mm wide and relatively low profile. The HEDs are about 430 more per rim if memory serves and I believe a tad bit heavier (rims weights are around 440g or so). Some say the fit and finish on the HEDs are nicer. You can get both pre-built from their respective manufacturers, or buy the rims separately and have them paired to whatever hubs and spokes you want.

    I just built up 2 sets of A23s and for the materials, you are looking at about $300 and up a set, mostly dependent on the hub you choose.

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    Great information, Kris. Thanks for letting me know, and pointing out the brake adjustment issue. Sometimes you can overlook the simplest things, can't you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shibui View Post
    Great information, Kris. Thanks for letting me know, and pointing out the brake adjustment issue. Sometimes you can overlook the simplest things, can't you?
    Yep, pretty easy to get caught up with shiny new things and forget little details.

    I'm slowly converting all my wheels over to 23mm wide rims. To be frank, mostly for the brake issue, as I routinely swap wheels between my road and cyclocross bike. The cross bike is driving the switch, as running a 23mm tubular rim with 32-34mm tires mounted on it makes a whole lot more sense to me than a 19mm rim with the same size tire. But since I don't want to exclusively run tubulars on that bike, I need a set of clinchers, and since I like to swap things around... you get the jist.

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    I think the real big benefit of wide rims is that you can run wider tires without getting the floppy feeling. Theres no change in rolling resistance.. I think they might have even rode a little harsher, but they felt planted and solid, and I liked it.

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    Bought the hype?

    Quote Originally Posted by shibui View Post
    Great question, Krisdum! From what I have read, with a wider rim, I can have a larger contact patch, use less psi, less rolling resistance,and they will behave more like a tubular tire. Ideally, I would like to drop some grams from my fulcrums while still staying aluminum. Hope that makes sense!
    The size of the contact patch is the weight load on the tire divided by the tire pressure. A wider rim will not give you a larger contact patch unless you drop tire pressure. Wider rims will not necessarily let you reduce pressure nor provide lower rolling resistance. I won't even touch the "rides like a tubular" claim. People report all kinds of "improvements" when they expect them, but actually putting a stopwatch to it may disappoint you. A couple of "blind test" reports have shown that people cannot tell much about wheels and tires by how they "feel."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    The size of the contact patch is the weight load on the tire divided by the tire pressure. A wider rim will not give you a larger contact patch unless you drop tire pressure. Wider rims will not necessarily let you reduce pressure nor provide lower rolling resistance. I won't even touch the "rides like a tubular" claim. People report all kinds of "improvements" when they expect them, but actually putting a stopwatch to it may disappoint you. A couple of "blind test" reports have shown that people cannot tell much about wheels and tires by how they "feel."
    I'm just a newbie looking at wheels for the first time. In the Velonews Buyer Guide, they discuss a wider rim leading to decreased rolling resistance, a wider contact patch, and not having to run at as high a PSI. If you do not agree with this info, let me now where you think I should look to get informed.

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    Zipp 101's are supposed to have wider rim

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    Quote Originally Posted by shibui View Post
    I'm just a newbie looking at wheels for the first time. In the Velonews Buyer Guide, they discuss a wider rim leading to decreased rolling resistance, a wider contact patch, and not having to run at as high a PSI. If you do not agree with this info, let me now where you think I should look to get informed.
    Shibui, no one source is a oracle, but KerryIrons is as about as close to one as you can get.
    You don't have to agree with everything he says, but consider his opinions as worthy of extra consideration.

    "It's a time trial. You have to start as fast as possible, finish as fast as possible. And hope it's fast enough." Cadel Evans

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    Word choice

    Quote Originally Posted by shibui View Post
    I'm just a newbie looking at wheels for the first time. In the Velonews Buyer Guide, they discuss a wider rim leading to decreased rolling resistance, a wider contact patch, and not having to run at as high a PSI. If you do not agree with this info, let me now where you think I should look to get informed.
    First you said that wider rims gave a LARGER contact patch, which is incorrect. Now you're saying a WIDER contact patch, which is correct all else equal. If the change in SHAPE of the contact patch reduces rolling resistance it would be by an infintessimal amount. Tire rolling resistance is due to hysterisis losses (flexing of the casing) and you would have to have awfully high quality data to show that a slightly less oval shaped contact patch changed flex losses significantly.

    I struggle a bit with how a wider rim allows meaningfully lower pressures as you still have to protect the tire from pinching against the rim. Making the tire a little wider and therefore a little "squatter" might help but the effect can't be large. A wider rim does result in slightly larger tire volume but much of that volume increase is "below" the edge of the rim sidewall and so would have no effect on pinch flat resistance.

    The main point here is that wider rims may indeed be SLIGHTLY better but they are not going to help you see God any better. For the immediate term they fall into the same category as ceramic bearings (without the outrageous added cost factor). There have been a lot of "innovations" in bicycling that were "definitely the next big thing" that turned out to be not much. Time will tell on wider rims but they clearly are being hyped right now. Maybe a little better, maybe not, but DEFINITELY not a quantum leap.

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