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  1. #1
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    Maxxis padrone tubeless

    Looking at some new tubeless tire offerings. The Maxxis Padrone tubeless tire retails for $120 a piece, they are cheaper online but the lowest price i found was $99. Seems a little crazy, a Hutchinson fusion 3 or atom is only about $75 retail and can be found much cheaper. Just had to point this out to any tubeless owners

  2. #2
    MWT
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    I've noticed the same thing. I'd like to give them a try, but not at that price. I sure hope they aren't rebadged Hutchinsons.

  3. #3
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    Yes, the price a bit high. I've been riding Padrone prototypes for almost two years now, and I'm completely sold on tubeless road. I can say the same for Rory Sutherland. Hopefully the marketplace will have some influence, and the price will come down. I, for one, would like to see more people give the Padrone a shot.

    They definitely aren't rebadged Hutchinsons. They are made in the Maxxis Taiwan factory, and each tire is X-rayed to inspect for voids or other imperfections.

    Disclaimer - I work for Maxxis.

  4. #4
    MWT
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    Good to hear from a Maxxis employee.

    How would you characterize the difficulty in mounting a Padrone (as compared to a Fusion 2 or 3)?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWT
    Good to hear from a Maxxis employee.

    How would you characterize the difficulty in mounting a Padrone (as compared to a Fusion 2 or 3)?
    I would say about the same. The tolerances on the beads are extremely tight, and both Hutchinson and Maxxis use the same carbon fiber material. So it's pretty similar.

    I will say that the rubber surrounding the bead on the Maxxis Padrone is a bit softer than that used on Hutchinson's tires. This seems to make inflation easier (especially when using a floor pump) and may yeild better air retention. However I think it might be a little easier to damage, so take care not to use exessive force with a tire lever (or a tire lever with sharp edges).

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell
    Yes, the price a bit high. I've been riding Padrone prototypes for almost two years now, and I'm completely sold on tubeless road. I can say the same for Rory Sutherland. Hopefully the marketplace will have some influence, and the price will come down. I, for one, would like to see more people give the Padrone a shot.

    They definitely aren't rebadged Hutchinsons. They are made in the Maxxis Taiwan factory, and each tire is X-rayed to inspect for voids or other imperfections.

    Disclaimer - I work for Maxxis.

    Care to comment on longevity versus the Hutchinson tires? I just started with the Intensive and looked at the Padrone but the price is steep.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsorvino
    Care to comment on longevity versus the Hutchinson tires? I just started with the Intensive and looked at the Padrone but the price is steep.
    I wish I could, but I haven't spent much time on the Hutchinson tires. I weigh about 170 kitted up, the roads here in N. GA aren't too bad, but there can be a fair amount of debris on the shoulders at times, and I'm getting about 4000 mi on the rear tire- probably could push it to 5k.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell
    I wish I could, but I haven't spent much time on the Hutchinson tires. I weigh about 170 kitted up, the roads here in N. GA aren't too bad, but there can be a fair amount of debris on the shoulders at times, and I'm getting about 4000 mi on the rear tire- probably could push it to 5k.
    I am a Clyde so this will be a real world test for Hutchinson LO... I have then on Fulcrum 1 2-ways... LBS did built them said they are good wheels and great tires. I would be happy if they hold like a Conti GP4000.

  9. #9
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    Maxxis Padrone - Huge Disappointment

    I bit the bullet and spent $200 for a set in the hope they would be an improvement over the Hutchinsons. I had no problem getting them onto the rim, but had significant issues getting them to seal and inflate. The first set of wheels I used were DT Tricon 1450s. When trying to inflate the tires air was coming out of the drain holes on the rims. This seemed odd and I thought the rims might not be airtight. I then tried the tires on a set of Campy Shamal Two-Way Fit wheels. I had the same problem with air coming out of the drain holes on the rim. At this point I was stumped so took both sets of wheels and the tires to my LBS. A very good mechanic had the same problem and it took him 40 minutes to figure out that despite the valves being very tight on the rims, they were not getting a good seal and the air was leaking into the rim cavity. This did not happen mounting Hutchinsons. Apparently, the bead on the Padrone is larger and interferes with the valve seating firmly against the rim. We finally fixed this by tightening the stems very aggressively.

    Once we solved the valve seating issue, we get the tires to inflate. Unfortunately, they lose about 40 PSI overnight. Maxxis told me they do not want people using sealant on the Padrone, so that eliminates the ability to address the slow air loss.

    The other significant problem is that the tire is advertised as a 23C tire, but when mounted they measure 21C with a digital caliper. Since the primary reason I bought the tires was for use on rough roads, changing from my GP4000s tires, that measure an actual 23C when new and slightly larger after a few weeks, to the narrower Padrones is likely to just trade the benefits of tubeless for the benefits of a wider tire. It is very deceptive to advertise a tire as a 23C tire and deliver it as a 21C.

    I am stuck with these tires because I mounted them, but would definitely recommend against buying them.

  10. #10
    MWT
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    EAJN,

    Thanks for the detailed review. That's bad news - I was hoping for a good alternative to Hutchinson. However, my most recent set of Fusion 3s were relatively easy to mount and I've had no problem with them holding air without sealant. They did, however, measure slightly less than 23mm.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWT
    EAJN,

    Thanks for the detailed review. That's bad news - I was hoping for a good alternative to Hutchinson. However, my most recent set of Fusion 3s were relatively easy to mount and I've had no problem with them holding air without sealant. They did, however, measure slightly less than 23mm.
    What rims do you have? On my Dura Ace 7850 SL's the Fusions 3's are a bit over 24mm

  12. #12
    MWT
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    Quote Originally Posted by purdyd
    What rims do you have? On my Dura Ace 7850 SL's the Fusions 3's are a bit over 24mm
    I have one set of 7850 SLs and one set of 7850 C24 Sls. On both, Fusion 3s measure under 23mm. However, my previous Fusion 2s measured around 24mm. I think Hutchinson must have some QC issues.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAJN
    I bit the bullet and spent $200 for a set in the hope they would be an improvement over the Hutchinsons. I had no problem getting them onto the rim, but had significant issues getting them to seal and inflate. The first set of wheels I used were DT Tricon 1450s. When trying to inflate the tires air was coming out of the drain holes on the rims. This seemed odd and I thought the rims might not be airtight. I then tried the tires on a set of Campy Shamal Two-Way Fit wheels. I had the same problem with air coming out of the drain holes on the rim. At this point I was stumped so took both sets of wheels and the tires to my LBS. A very good mechanic had the same problem and it took him 40 minutes to figure out that despite the valves being very tight on the rims, they were not getting a good seal and the air was leaking into the rim cavity. This did not happen mounting Hutchinsons. Apparently, the bead on the Padrone is larger and interferes with the valve seating firmly against the rim. We finally fixed this by tightening the stems very aggressively.

    Once we solved the valve seating issue, we get the tires to inflate. Unfortunately, they lose about 40 PSI overnight. Maxxis told me they do not want people using sealant on the Padrone, so that eliminates the ability to address the slow air loss.

    The other significant problem is that the tire is advertised as a 23C tire, but when mounted they measure 21C with a digital caliper. Since the primary reason I bought the tires was for use on rough roads, changing from my GP4000s tires, that measure an actual 23C when new and slightly larger after a few weeks, to the narrower Padrones is likely to just trade the benefits of tubeless for the benefits of a wider tire. It is very deceptive to advertise a tire as a 23C tire and deliver it as a 21C.

    I am stuck with these tires because I mounted them, but would definitely recommend against buying them.
    EAJN, what is the width of your rims? And inflation pressure? The Padrones, mounted on Dura-Ace WH-7850 rims, consistently measure over 23mm wide. I measured the tire shown below at 6 different locations, averaged the results, and got 23.09mm. I wouldn't call that dishonest sizing. The Padrones mounted on my Stan's Alpha rims measure around 23.9mm.





    And if you're losing 40 psi overnight, it's likely that either the innerliner or the bead cushion was damaged during the installation or removal of the tire. Maxxis does not recommend the use of sealant simply because it would be nearly impossible to test every sealant on the market, so take that for what it's worth.

  14. #14
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    I am measuring the Padrones on DT Tricon 1450 wheels.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAJN
    I am measuring the Padrones on DT Tricon 1450 wheels.
    Internal width? Also, tires will expand a bit over the first 48 hours. Best to give them at least a day at max inflation pressure before measuring.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWT
    I have one set of 7850 SLs and one set of 7850 C24 Sls. On both, Fusion 3s measure under 23mm. However, my previous Fusion 2s measured around 24mm. I think Hutchinson must have some QC issues.
    i suspect there is more variation in measuring methodolgy-

    for instance, what PSI, how long the tire has been mounted, or how many places the tire is measured.

  17. #17
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    The rim width on the Tricon wheels is 20MM. I did the initial measurement at 90PSI, which is what I would use as a light rider. (I run my GP4000s tires at 100-105.) I took the attached picture (sorry, I can't figure out how to insert it like you did) at 100PSI, and the cross section is slightly wider (21.4).

    I have no way to know if the tires are damaged. You seem to be a Maxxis employee, o you are better equipped to determine whether there is damage. I will give you the facts on the tire mounting and you can tell me whether it is reasonable for the tires to be damaged. I mounted the tires by hand. I removed the tires to test them on the Campy wheels using the Maxxis supplied tire levers. If this damages the tires, I wonder whether they are durable enough for real world use.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Maxxis padrone tubeless-maxxis.jpg  

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAJN
    The rim width on the Tricon wheels is 20MM. I did the initial measurement at 90PSI, which is what I would use as a light rider. (I run my GP4000s tires at 100-105.) I took the attached picture (sorry, I can't figure out how to insert it like you did) at 100PSI, and the cross section is slightly wider (21.4).

    I have no way to know if the tires are damaged. You seem to be a Maxxis employee, o you are better equipped to determine whether there is damage. I will give you the facts on the tire mounting and you can tell me whether it is reasonable for the tires to be damaged. I mounted the tires by hand. I removed the tires to test them on the Campy wheels using the Maxxis supplied tire levers. If this damages the tires, I wonder whether they are durable enough for real world use.
    The Dura-Ace 7850 measure 21mm wide, externally. So I imagine if the wall thickness and bead hook dimensions are similar, than the internal width of your DT Swiss rims is going to be roughly 1mm less than than the WH-7850's. This will account for some of the difference we're seeing. I suspect that because your tires are brand new, and haven't been inflated long (due to your leak), then they haven't had a chance to expand, either.

    You can check to see if the innerliner has been damaged by submerging your tire in a water-filled bathtub or kiddie pool. If bubbles are forming on the sidewall, then cut(s) in the innerliner are allowing air to pass through the casing. And if bubbles are coming from where the rim meets the tire, then the bead cushion (the rubber around the bead) has been compromised. Excessive force with a tire lever can cause these types of damages, no matter what brand. It's important to make sure the bead is completely dropped down into the center channel of the rim before trying to remove the tire. And always be gentle with the levers.

  19. #19
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    bholwell, Please confirm; can sealant be used with the Maxis Padrone tubeless tires?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by natedg200202
    bholwell, Please confirm; can sealant be used with the Maxis Padrone tubeless tires?
    At this time, Maxxis does not condone the use of sealants in Maxxis tires. The possible effects of sealants on Maxxis tires are unknown.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell
    At this time, Maxxis does not condone the use of sealants in Maxxis tires. The possible effects of sealants on Maxxis tires are unknown.
    that is a huge marketing mistake

    while i understand it is nearly impossible to test all brands of sealant, it seems very strange after several years of development that at least one or two brands have not been subjected to log term testing

    i wish Maxxis all the luck on this product but it seems between the price and not condoning sealant, you are off to a rocky start

  22. #22
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    Just run sealant. Have you really ever returned a tire anyway? I've been running non-tubeless 29er tires for years with sealant and no tubes. A double whammy of non-recommended practices, but I've never had a problem, or expected that the manufacturer would support me if it all went south.

    Maxxis simply seems to be saying that they don't support warranty claims if you run these tires tubeless with sealant. They're not saying that you'll have two headed spawn, or that Sarah Palin will become President.

  23. #23
    MWT
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    Quote Originally Posted by purdyd
    i suspect there is more variation in measuring methodolgy-

    for instance, what PSI, how long the tire has been mounted, or how many places the tire is measured.

    Both sets of tires were new and freshly mounted and the pressure was around 95 psi rear/ 90 psi front. Measurements were taken with non-digital calipers at two locations on each tire.

  24. #24
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    For whatever it is worth, I gave up on the Padornes as an expensive failed experiment (too narrow, don't hold air well, discouraged by someone from Maxxis claiming that the tires are damaged from routine mounting) and mounted a new set of GP4000S tires on the Tricon wheels. The Padrones measured just over 21MM on these wheels, the GP4000S tires measure 23MM on the nose.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAJN
    For whatever it is worth, I gave up on the Padornes as an expensive failed experiment (too narrow, don't hold air well, discouraged by someone from Maxxis claiming that the tires are damaged from routine mounting) and mounted a new set of GP4000S tires on the Tricon wheels. The Padrones measured just over 21MM on these wheels, the GP4000S tires measure 23MM on the nose.

    That someone from Maxxis is the senior tire design and development engineer. You should read his posts a little more closely, particularly posts
    5 and 18.

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