Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 60
  1. #1
    Pitts Pilot
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    430

    Michelin Pro4 Service Course (25mm) First Ride/Impressions

    I recognize that this probably belongs in Wheels and Tires, but being so eagerly anticipated and only just now available in 25mm, I thought this may belong where more folks were likely to see it.

    I like the box/packaging. It’s small/tidy – not wasteful. I was less impressed with the fact that the graph on the box offering pressure advice for various weights exactly matches the one on their website for 23mm and NOT the lower pressure recommended for 25mm tires. This is a careless and surprising error which may result in many people not getting the full benefit of using a 25mm tire. Claimed weight is 215 and actual was 220 and 222 – a reasonable margin of error in my opinion. I found them noticeably easier to mount than the GP4000s. They hold their shape a little better and I was able to mount them bare handed with no swearing. I usually need a bead jack to mount a 4000s.

    They are mounted on HED C2 “Belgium” rims that are wide, at 23mm. On this rim, the 25mm Pro4’s measure a surprisingly fat 28.5mm immediately after mounting. (A 25mm GP4000s will measure 26.5 on this rim.) I expect the Pro4 to measure very close to 30mm after a few rides. That’s great for me, but if other 25’s are tight for you, this one might be a problem. To my eye, they don’t look as wide as the GP4000 or Michelin Pro Optimum, even though they are wider. Perhaps this is due to the more “V” profile, which you can see and feel. They feel thicker in the center during mounting. I quite like the look of the tire mounted. There is a bold/sharp contrast, but no flash – no color (like my bike, on which I strictly avoid color.)

    I weigh 150 and run 87psi rear and 82 front with this rim and a 25mm tire. I switched from my long-time favorites to these in hopes of a more supple ride. As far as that goes, I don’t think I could tell the difference between the Pro4 and the GP4000s over bumps/rough roads (or smooth) in a straight line. I definitely noticed a difference, as claimed by Michelin, leaning it over - entering and exiting corners – which I do a lot of. It feel very quick/agile dodging things as you fly down a mountain road. I’m wondering if this will change rapidly as the profile of the tire changes due to the inevitable “squaring” off that I typically experience. My other concern with regard to the profile is how good the straight-line traction will be on very steep, wet roads. By definition, a “V” shape is going to have a narrower contact patch when climbing straight ahead (and braking.) I don’t think this will matter for most people, but I do some climbing in the upper teens and 20’s (%) and when it’s wet it can be difficult to avoid slipping when you least want it. (This is why I quickly gave up on the Vittoria Open Corsa 23mm, even though I loved the feel of that tire.) My first ride was dry, but rain is never far off here, so I’ll post what I discover about wet traction during steep climbing and braking.

    I like this tire. Aesthetically, I prefer it to the GP4000s. (White/Black – no tread.) I like the extra width over the GP4000s (25mm.) I like how it enters/exits when leaning it over. If it will grip as well when climbing steep, wet roads I’m probably converted. (Although I feel guilty after my 6-year relationship, just dumping her for this sexy new model…) The differences are pretty minor, so grabbing whichever is cheaper is the best bet for most people, but I’m not the frugal type.

  2. #2
    classiquesklassieker
    Reputation: orange_julius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    3,074
    Pitts Pilot, when you say GP4000s do you mean "a pair of GP4000, not GP4000 S (Schwartz)" or "a pair of GP4000 S not GP4000"?

    As you know there is a GP4000 model and there is a GP4000 S model.

    Continental Bicycle -Grand Prix 4000 S
    Continental Bicycle -Grand Prix 4000

    Thanks.

  3. #3
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    271
    Thanks for the detailed report.
    "If you are going to be stupid then you have to be tough". - Tony Stewart

  4. #4
    Pitts Pilot
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by orange_julius View Post
    Pitts Pilot, when you say GP4000s do you mean "a pair of GP4000, not GP4000 S (Schwartz)" or "a pair of GP4000 S not GP4000"?

    As you know there is a GP4000 model and there is a GP4000 S model.

    Thanks.
    I am referring to the "s" version of the GP4000 with the "Chili Pepper" compound.

  5. #5
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: George M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    904
    I like what I'm reading. I do have a question about tires in general though. I always looked for a tire with a high TPI and I noticed that the Pro's have a low count. Could you give me some information on that?

  6. #6
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: nightfend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,582
    Don't worry about the TPI rating on the Michelin's Pro series. They ride very smooth for their lower tpi casing.

  7. #7
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: George M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    904
    Quote Originally Posted by nightfend View Post
    Don't worry about the TPI rating on the Michelin's Pro series. They ride very smooth for their lower tpi casing.
    Thanks for the reply. I was using the 4000s and I switched to the 4 Seasons because I get better mileage with them. I wonder what kind of mileage you could get with the Pro's. I think I'm going to have to give them a try.

  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: zender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    330
    I've used the PRO3s since they became available and are definitely my favorite clincher and been waiting for some feedback on the PRO4s... so thanks!

    I assume the rubber is pencil-eraser soft similar to the PRO3s? On the PRO3s, I've had more than one tire end up in the trash with plenty of tread left because of a deep cut from road debris. I don't mind the flattening of the contact area (in motorcycles we call that a chicken strip) but it does sting to throw out a nearly new tire like that.

  9. #9
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    149
    I just purchased a pair of the Pro3 Service Course at Bonktown. I've been riding GP4000 tires for about 10 years and have always had good luck with those tires. I was tempted by the price at Bonktown.

    Reading the replies regarding the Pro3s, they do not appear to be as durable as the GP4000s. I'm curious to try the Pro4 Endurance, which replaces the Krylion, after these Pro3s wear out.

  10. #10
    gus68
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    383
    How do the pro4 endurace compare to the pro optimums from a ride quality and puncture resistance standpoint? I really like my pro optimums.

    Thanks
    Gus

  11. #11
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    49
    I just switched from GP4000s to Pro 4 comp service and noticed a much better cornering ability and better road feel.

  12. #12
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: George M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    904
    Thanks Pitts, you talked me into it. I just ordered 2 black ones

  13. #13
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    829
    Quote Originally Posted by George M View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I was using the 4000s and I switched to the 4 Seasons because I get better mileage with them. I wonder what kind of mileage you could get with the Pro's. I think I'm going to have to give them a try.
    I recently switched form 4 Seasons to the 4000s which gives me a noticeably more supple ride and better grip in dry. The 4 seasons wear like iron though and I haven't ridden the 4000s long enough to judge durability.

  14. #14
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: looigi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    6,262
    Runnin' Pro3 for a coupla years now. Recently stocked up at $30 ea. Get ~3000 miles out of a rear running them down till the cords start to show. Am unconcerned about cuts in the tread unless the cords are compromised. There was a period where I was getting a flat on every ride and sometimes double flatting on a ride. Lately I've gone about 6 mo without a flat. I chalk it up to statistical fluctuation (AKA luck). Looking forward to trying Pro4s when 3s are gone.
    ... 'cuz that's how I roll.

  15. #15
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    27
    anyone had experiences of Schwalbe Ultremo? Seen some good reviews but wonderred if anyone had used this type before.

  16. #16
    al0
    al0 is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: al0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    977
    I've been riding GP4000 tires for about 10 years - how you manged it? They are on the market less that 5 years, if I am not mistaken (and GP 3000 were quite different - and much worse).
    Quote Originally Posted by Broomwagon View Post
    I just purchased a pair of the Pro3 Service Course at Bonktown. I've been riding GP4000 tires for about 10 years and have always had good luck with those tires. I was tempted by the price at Bonktown.

    Reading the replies regarding the Pro3s, they do not appear to be as durable as the GP4000s. I'm curious to try the Pro4 Endurance, which replaces the Krylion, after these Pro3s wear out.

  17. #17
    Master debator.
    Reputation: nOOky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    7,321
    Quote Originally Posted by zender View Post
    I've used the PRO3s since they became available and are definitely my favorite clincher and been waiting for some feedback on the PRO4s... so thanks!

    I assume the rubber is pencil-eraser soft similar to the PRO3s? On the PRO3s, I've had more than one tire end up in the trash with plenty of tread left because of a deep cut from road debris. I don't mind the flattening of the contact area (in motorcycles we call that a chicken strip) but it does sting to throw out a nearly new tire like that.
    We call the chicken strip the area on the edges of the tire that does not get scrubbed in by people afraid to lean the bike over, I've never heard of the center strip being referred to in that manner before.

    OP, thanks for the review.
    "I felt bad because I couldn't wheelie; until I met a man with no bicycle"

  18. #18
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: xjbaylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,015
    Quote Originally Posted by njsavage View Post
    anyone had experiences of Schwalbe Ultremo? Seen some good reviews but wonderred if anyone had used this type before.
    The Ultremo R.1 and ZX are both very light and handle great. They are also both pretty fragile and wear fast. My R.1's actually made it through a whole season with just a few flats. My buddy got his at the same time and had both warrantied by Schwalbe due to bubbling of the rubber.

    In short, great race tires. If you want to train on them you might get lucky, but like most ultralight tires, they aren't really made for daily abuse.

  19. #19
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    102

    Ultremo ZX vs Pro Race 4

    I was wondering if anybody has gone from a set of Schwalbe Ultremo ZX to the new Michelin Pro 4 Service Course this season??? I have a set of Ultremo ZX's with about 1200 miles on them and they have been good to me with no flats or issues other than a loose thread here or there on the sidewall and I am thinking of switching over to the Pro 4 in a month or so and I am curious on any differences in grip, accelaration, durability?

    Not that I don't like the Ultremo ZX, just thinking about trying something different.

  20. #20
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: siclmn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    652
    87 rear and 82 front?
    That sounds like a guarenteed pinch flat recipe.

  21. #21
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,192
    Quote Originally Posted by siclmn View Post
    87 rear and 82 front?
    That sounds like a guarenteed pinch flat recipe.
    It's about what I run. I've been running 80/85 for a couple years now. Hadn't had any pinch flats until the other day. Came down a mountain and BAM! hit a big pothole. Pinch flatted both tires. But seeing as it took a really hard hit to cause the flats, and I hadn't had any for so long, unless I start having a bunch more, I'm going to keep running the low pressures on my 25mm tires. I weigh 155 lbs for what it's worth.

  22. #22
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: askmass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    248
    I've been very impressed with the Pro 4 25's myself, and that's coming after years of riding Vittoria EVO Corsa.

    The TPI is not the end all be all that some make it out to be, and it was the Pro 4 that proved it to me.

    In fairness, for me the Vitt EVO in 25 wear longer but are not as supple as the EVO 23's. That said, the Pro 4 Service Course 25 tire IMO beats the EVO 25 on nearly every front that matters to me.
    .
    Discover Muscle And Sports Science, the source for Legitimate,
    Patent Technology muscle, fitness & sports supplements.

    http://www.musclemass.com

    Since 1993, Your Success is our success.

  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    18
    Pitts Pilot - Thank you for the informative post on your thoughts regarding the 25 mm Pro 4 and GP 4000s. It might be too early to tell but have you noticed any differences in durability between the two? Also, my frame and fork should be able to handle a wide tire, but I think the limiting factor will be clearance under the fork crown (3T Funda Pro). Does either tire appear to be shorter than the other or have you actually measured their height by any chance?

  24. #24
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    829
    Really interesting to see the perception of improvement with the Miche's over the 4000s. I love the 4000s but when they wear out I'll try the Miches'. I'm a big guy so like a wider tire.
    2015 Specialized Tarmac, Ultegra 6800, HED C2 rims
    2014 Specialized Roubaix Expert, Ultegra 6800, HED C 2 rims.
    2012 Giant Defy Advanced 2, Ultegra, Pacenti SL 23 rims.
    Moots VaMoots, Dura-Ace, Pacenti SL 23 rims

  25. #25
    fu
    Reputation: ph0enix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,229
    I've been using the 23mm version of that tire for a couple months and I really like it. My previous tires were Schwalbe Ultemo ZX which I didn't care for. I've got ~1,360 miles on the PRO4's and the rear is squared off at this point so I'll be replacing it soon with another PRO4. The only tire that I like better (so far at least) is the Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX II. It doesn't last though.
    My other chainring is a 39...
    Strava profile

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

INTERBIKE

Contest

Hot Deals See All Hot Deals >>

Interbike Featured Booths

Check out the hottest road bike products from these brands!



















See All Interbike Coverage - Click Here »


Latest RoadBike Articles


Latest Videos

RoadbikeReview on Facebook