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  1. #1
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Smile My First Road Wheel Build ...

    Kinlin XR19W rims on Super Light hubs ... all sourced from Bike Hub Store excellant service. If I need more wheel components I know where to look ...

    Rear hub 28H 208g lacing 3x2x
    Front hub 24H 86g lacing 1x
    Sapim Lasers (they are really skinny)

    Having only build MTB wheels and only disc compatible, I am looking forward to this ...

    rear wheel first ... 3x drive side, 2x NDS ... just for a change



    all laced and ready for tightening

    Last edited by c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n; 09-11-2013 at 06:12 AM. Reason: This thread originally had uploaded pictures which RBR recently deleted. Pictures which are now hosted from another site will replace those missing pictures.

  2. #2
    A wheelist
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    Woot-woot. Let us know how it turns out.
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    Mike T's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

    I'm not cranky; I just have a violent reaction to stupid people.

  3. #3
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    Very nice and definitely let us know how they work out. Same exact build that I will plan on doing over the fall/winter.

  4. #4
    Online Wheel Builder
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    Great looking build. Be sure to post a tensioning and ride report!

  5. #5
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Cheers ... will keep this thread updated ...

    Question or maybe it does not matter ...

    I am using brass (silver) nipples on the drive side (higher tension) and alloy (red) on the NDS. Hence the colour alternates around the rim ... Apologies for the vanity ...

    For the front, since the flange is symmetrical, is it still ok to just use brass on spokes coming from one side of the hub and alloy from the other side? Or should I just go 2 brass and 2 alloy etc, not that I want to as I would like to keep the same order ... Would it be a problem? Logically I do not think so ...

  6. #6
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    The front wouldnt be a problem, any nipple combo will work.

    I had tension problems lacing that hub 3x/2x to a much stiffer XR300. It wouldnt get stiff enough, ended up buying new spokes to do 2x/2x. Hope you have better luck.

  7. #7
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    How do you mean by 'wouldn't get stiff enough' ...

    Were you were not able to get the tension on the spokes up to rim's recommendation?

    btw ... It is 105kgf for the XR19W, just wondering how much higher I can go, mainly because I have a DT Swiss wheelset, and the average tension in the spokes, on the drive side is closer to 150kgf than the recommended 122kgf.

    I am using Sapim Lasers 2.0 1.5 2.0mm ...

  8. #8
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    I built it to 125kgf (I build everything to 125 unless the manufacturer says not to). I think the NDS was about 50 or 60, dont quite remember. It felt flexy and the NDS was pretty easy to go slack. I think it was actually an A23, it was quite a while ago. I never rode it, it just felt so off while building I didnt want to keep going with it.

  9. #9
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Cheers for that ...

    Another question ... I am using alloy nipples and I notice they 'mark/notch' easily when using the 4-sided Spoke Nipple Wrench to tighten.

    Do you guys use a 'home made' nipple driver to tighten alloy nipples from the 'slotted' end, ie from inside the rim? Just so that the nipple is not marked at all. Not vital but just for aesthetics ... if you know what I mean ... Would be good to build a wheel for a friend with the nipples looking clean.

  10. #10
    Online Wheel Builder
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    @chinaman- One of the downsides of alloy nips is that they do tend to get scuffed up a little bit easier than brass. Regarding your question, I am not sure that I completely understand. Are you using a nipple driver to tighten nips before the tensioning process, or while tensioning?
    Keep in mind that a brand new spoke wrench can scuff up nips as well. I prefer to use a spoke wrench that has been used quite a bit.

  11. #11
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    Hey Zen... quick hi-jack but do you have any pics of build with the Kinlin rims in gold and any color hubs? I was looking at picking up a set of the XR270 or C472W in gold with Red BHS hubs and black spokes to match my 09 Kona Jake.

    Edit: Nevermind found your flickr and found what I was looking for...Might just stay with all black, dont know.
    Last edited by gregnash; 06-06-2012 at 12:19 PM.

  12. #12
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    I am using this nipple driver during tensioning ... thanks to Mike T for the custom 'pre-tension' nipple driver, but this is MY 'tensioning' driver ...



    works so far on the NDS, which I am using alloy nipples ... just so that I do not scuff the nipples ... for the front where I am going 1X, I will try and give an update ...



    Another question, for 1X, there is no way that the second set of spokes (on the same side of the hub) will go under the first set if the first set are all heads out, isn't it ... ie the spoke no 2 will not be able to go under spoke no 1, which is the first set of spoke that I run heads out into the hub ...



    Just to re-confirm ...

    For 2X, which was for my rear above, the second set of spoke that goes on the same side of the hub goes, over the spoke next to it and under ... before going into the rim??? ... sounds and looks logical ... if anyone can confirm would be good ... cheers
    Last edited by c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n; 09-11-2013 at 06:23 AM.

  13. #13
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n View Post
    I am using this nipple driver during tensioning ... thanks to Mike T for the custom 'pre-tension' nipple driver, but this is MY 'tensioning' driver ...
    B-b-b-but I don't see the reason for the slot in your version. If the slot is needed then you've seriously mis-calculated the spoke length. Maybe I missed something and maybe you could explain the reason for the slot.

    A flat screwdriver works ok - and that's basically what you have unless a spoke pokes up into the slot - but it slides out of the nipple groove easily. My pointy modified phillips tends to stay in the slot better.

    Another question, for 1X, there is no way that the second set of spokes (on the same side of the hub) will go under the first set if the first set are all heads out, isn't it ... ie the spoke no 2 will not be able to go under spoke no 1, which is the first set of spoke that I run heads out into the hub ...
    I have front wheel with x1 done all "heads out". Yes the spokes touch and interfere but I don't think it's an issue. They're done with CX-Ray but the cross touches in the round part of the spoke. It would be nice if they crossed in their flat section though.

    For 2X, which was for my rear above, the second set of spoke that goes on the same side of the hub goes, over the spoke next to it and under ... before going into the rim??? ... sounds and looks logical ... if anyone can confirm would be good ... cheers
    10-4 C'man. You got it. Carry on with the good work.
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    Mike T's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

    I'm not cranky; I just have a violent reaction to stupid people.

  14. #14
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    B-b-b-but I don't see the reason for the slot in your version. If the slot is needed then you've seriously mis-calculated the spoke length. Maybe I missed something and maybe you could explain the reason for the slot.

    A flat screwdriver works ok - and that's basically what you have unless a spoke pokes up into the slot - but it slides out of the nipple groove easily. My pointy modified phillips tends to stay in the slot better.

    ...
    Nope ... the spoke protrude just slightly above the nipple slot, and so hence I needed the slot to drive the alloy nipples during tensioning, just so that I do not mark the nipple using a spoke wrench? Is that a sign of a slightly longer spoke??? For brass nipples, I use the spoke wrench as you cannot really tell that it is marked as it is silver in colour ...

    I just used hub flange data and rim ERD from the BHS site that I purchased the components from ...

    Hub: SL R211
    PCD left 38.4 right 49.3
    Flange left 37.75 right 16.75

    Rim: Kinlin XR19W ERD598

    Drive Side 3X calculated spoke length 293.5 (used 293)
    Non Drive Side 2X calculated spoke length 288.4 (used 289, as no even spoke length available)



    These are what I have used ...



    The bottom driver is your version, Mk 2 ...
    Closeup ...




    For my front wheel ... Will change my heads in to out ... cheers for that ... ... I did thought of using CX-Rays, but then the spoke will not be able to go through the hub spoke holes, so the Lasers were the next best option ...
    Last edited by c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n; 09-11-2013 at 06:22 AM.

  15. #15
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n View Post
    Nope ... the spoke protrude just slightly above the nipple slot, and so hence I needed the slot to drive the alloy nipples during tensioning, just so that I do not mark the nipple using a spoke wrench? Is that a sign of a slightly longer spoke?
    Errr yep.

    For my front wheel ... Will change my heads in to out ... cheers for that ... ... I did thought of using CX-Rays, but then the spoke will not be able to go through the hub spoke holes, so the Lasers were the next best option ...
    CX-Rays, at 2.3mm wide, are designed to fit through all normal spoke holes. They're not like true aero spokes that needed to have the hub holes slotted.
    .
    Mike T's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

    I'm not cranky; I just have a violent reaction to stupid people.

  16. #16
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    ... CX-Rays, at 2.3mm wide, are designed to fit through all normal spoke holes. They're not like true aero spokes that needed to have the hub holes slotted.
    Yep ... that is true ... the holes on my front and rear hubs were 2.6mm and 2.7mm ... so the CX rays would have been ok ...

    I think I went with the lasers because they were cheaper ... hopefully this does not equate to a lower quality ...



    Both the front and rear are almost done ... I think I getting quite picky and still think that there is still that bit more that I need to true ... anyway time is no constraint and I enjoy it ...



    Last edited by c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n; 09-11-2013 at 06:37 AM.

  17. #17
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n View Post
    Y
    I think I went with the lasers because they were cheaper ... hopefully this does not equate to a lower quality ..
    Actually CX-Rays are forged from Lasers.
    .
    Mike T's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

    I'm not cranky; I just have a violent reaction to stupid people.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomH View Post

    I had tension problems lacing that hub 3x/2x to a much stiffer XR300. It wouldnt get stiff enough, ended up buying new spokes to do 2x/2x. Hope you have better luck.
    How did the tension work out for you? I'm looking a a similar 28 spoke build using the BHS SL hub 3xDS 2xNDS using a BHS C472w rim. I'd rather just plan for 2x if I'm going to run into issues.

    TIA!

  19. #19
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    They're just fine 2x/2x. No reason to have more lacing on the DS. Im a very big fan of lacing these hubs 1x heads in on the DS, and 2x NDS for 28h. Returns better wheels, and I think it looks pretty good too

    Again Ill admit that I never actually rode the 2x/3x wheels, they just felt off enough while building that I abandoned it. Id very strongly recommend against more crosses on the DS.

  20. #20
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    Thanks TomH for the advice. I'll ditch the 3x 2x and may go with the 1xDS 2xNDS now.

  21. #21
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    Cool stuff, you'll enjoy it! Just make sure they're heads in

  22. #22
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    Once you are done show us some shots of the finished wheels. Looks like this will be in my build future as I am now finding, as I get more confident and faster on my Jake, that my wheels flex a bit when I bank a turn. I found this out because I can actually hear them flexing and hitting the brake pads slightly and rubbing. I figured that a 32H/32H setup on my Jake at 187# would be more than strong enough but the wheels are tru with no hops so looks like the rims just weren't made to hold my weight. I am debating on using the BHS hubs and building an entirely new set of wheels and keeping these as backup/trainers or just relacing the stock Tiagra hubs to the BHS rims.

  23. #23
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    all done ... rear wheel ...
    3xDS/2xNDS went ok for me ...

    front ...
    just 1x heads out ...



    The weight came out at 615g front + 774g rear ... I tensioned the spokes to about 120kgf, based on the lightest spoke tensioned, on the DS rear and either side for front ... recommended was 105kgf, but I think it should be fine ...



    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    ... as I get more confident and faster on my Jake, that my wheels flex a bit when I bank a turn. I found this out because I can actually hear them flexing and hitting the brake pads slightly and rubbing ...
    That is a worry constantly at the back of mind and cannot wait to find out if that happens to these wheels as well as they are so light ...
    Last edited by c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n; 09-11-2013 at 06:36 AM.

  24. #24
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    Very cool, I am looking forward to the report on the first rides...

    BTW, what are the red and white decals on the rims?

  25. #25
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    XR19W is the rim name ... Kinlin did not give any decals ... their rims are always plain ... good if you like a plain 'no decal' look ...
    Last edited by c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n; 09-11-2013 at 06:31 AM.

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