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  1. #1
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    New 23mm wide seni-aero vs Kinlin XR-270 ????

    So, what's a better choice?

    I'm going to build a new set of wheels and have decided on either a new 23mm wide semi-aero rim (such as BHS C472w from bikehubstore.com) or the tried and true Kinlin XR-270.

    The wheels will be:
    • Front: 24 radial spokes (hub TBD)
    • Rear: 28 2x spokes (hub TBD)
    • Spokes: probably Sapim Laser
    • Nipples probaby alloy, but open to suggestion
    • Weight goal: 1550gr or less
    • Daily do-all wheels
    • Builder will probably be me


    Me and how I ride:
    • 40+ ex-racer, fast group rides 3-5 days/week. hilly terrain with the occasional 3000-5000 climb (Colorado Front Range, Boulder area).
    • 180 +/- pounds.
    • Seldom do I truly sprint
    • Often windy here
    • Use 25mm tires
    • Bike is a Wilier Izoard XP size XL


    So, are the new 23mm wide rims worth 50-60gr extra weight for the wheelset and are they worth the extra cost?

    Opinions?

  2. #2
    Burnum Upus Quadricepus
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclevt View Post
    So, are the new 23mm wide rims worth 50-60gr extra weight for the wheelset and are they worth the extra cost?
    Based on my experience with a set of Velocity A23s, the answers are yes, and yes.

  3. #3
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    I went to 23mm rim (H Plus Son Archetype) after about 10K miles on XR-270's and it was a pretty major improvement. Well worth the extra money. And not just because of the width difference.....the kinlins had a braking pulse (that eventually went away are they wore) and eventually died of many rim cracks.

  4. #4
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    I'm 165 pounds and built BHS 23mm rims with their hubs (20/24) and used DT db with alloy nips. Wanted a daily all-around wheelset to put serious miles in this winter without spending too much; don't build my wheels so I had to factor in $80 total labor. My riding sounds a lot like yours. My mtb have wide carbon and alloy rims and it's a huge difference. The road bike was transformed with the BHS rim using 25mm tires and even 23 tubeless Fusion 3. Actual weight is 1570, not bad for the black DT db inexpensive spokes costing $390 total.

    I reload ammunition for relaxation, the ability to customize and to save a boat load of money (reload about 1000 rounds per month) and should building wheels, but the "return on investment" would take a long time to recoup for the 1 or 2 wheelset a year, and I simply don't want to build wheels hence the swallowing of frugality and DIY pride by having a local master builder take over.

  5. #5
    Online Wheel Builder
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    I think the XR270 is a great rim. It is proven, durable, and versatile. The XC279 has better ride quality though.

    If I had to pick between the two, I'd say accept the extra weight and go with the XC279.

  6. #6
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Tell me more

    I'm 56kg and built up 20/24 Kinlin 270 setup. Rear rim was fine, built 2x with Aerolites and WI hub. Front had the pulsing issue and it never got better. I used a C4 FH95 built radial, heads-in with Aerolites. I'm in Tokyo today but the Archetype just arrived in Singapore and going to rebuild the front over the weekend but using Pillar 1422's, radial as before.

    How long did it take the anodizing to wear off the braking surface and was the weight close to mfr. spec?

    Also, what's your weight and wheel build?

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I went to 23mm rim (H Plus Son Archetype) after about 10K miles on XR-270's and it was a pretty major improvement. Well worth the extra money. And not just because of the width difference.....the kinlins had a braking pulse (that eventually went away are they wore) and eventually died of many rim cracks.
    i've got limited minutes left in life, don't waste my time

  7. #7
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    BHS just added the H Son rim to thier stock. It shows to be a little lighter than the 472 rim plus it has a welded seam.

  8. #8
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    I don't like how the brake track will wear off and look patchy with the H Son rims. They look awesome when new though. Fairwheel just added them to their site too. Fairwheel has their own rim coming out soon to compete.

    I am LOVING my new custom wheels built on the Kinlin XC279. Running them tubeless too. Need some new 25c tubeless tires and I will be floating on a cloud when riding.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by boneman View Post
    I'm 56kg and built up 20/24 Kinlin 270 setup. Rear rim was fine, built 2x with Aerolites and WI hub. Front had the pulsing issue and it never got better. I used a C4 FH95 built radial, heads-in with Aerolites. I'm in Tokyo today but the Archetype just arrived in Singapore and going to rebuild the front over the weekend but using Pillar 1422's, radial as before.

    How long did it take the anodizing to wear off the braking surface and was the weight close to mfr. spec?

    Also, what's your weight and wheel build?

    Thanks

    -Maybe a 1000 miles but I wasn't really paying attention to how long it took to wear the brake track from black to silver. It accelerated when I rode in the rain and picked up some grit.
    -I didn't weigh the rims.
    -150, Alchemy hubs, 20, 24 cx-ray.

  10. #10
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    Think you will notice a difference with a wider rim. Once I built a set of HED's I got rid of all my skinny rims. The HED's , BHS, XC279 or A-23's will work. The HED's have the best finish. The A-23 not as aero.
    Darryl
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS Alpine View Post
    I don't like how the brake track will wear off and look patchy with the H Son rims.
    That wasn't an issue with mine. They wear very evenly. They did look a little patchy for a short period of time when they started to wear but eventually they look like any other silver brake track/black rim.

  12. #12
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Impressive quality

    They are nicely made and finished. Still waiting on spokes so no comments on how they build up. Right on the button at 450gr.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New 23mm wide seni-aero vs Kinlin XR-270 ????-img_5914-large-.jpg  
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  13. #13
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    Placed my order at BHS a week ago and didn't know about H Plus Son Archetype

    Very nice! Probably wouldn't have gone with them due to the extra cost since my "budget" wheelset is getting used all winter and is more of a everyday set, but should the desire to get a lighter build hit me those new rims will be front and center!

    My 472 are good looking and the wheelsmith said built up without drama; a tad heavier than expected with one being pretty close to 490 (believe it was the 20h) while the 24 was about 476g.

    So far the mtb hubset and the road hubs and rims from BHS are 100% sweetness.

  14. #14
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    To muddy the waters.......

    So, for 23mm wide rims at the (about) $60/ea price point, there's:
    -Velocity A23 (440gr)
    -BHS C472w semi-aero (480gr)
    -Kinlin XC-279 (similar to BHS rims)

    Again, build will be:
    F - 24h, probably 2x
    R - 28H, 2x/3x
    DT Revolutions

    Any opinion on ride quality?

  15. #15
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    The BHS c472w is the Kinlin XC279

    I just got a set built with White T11 hubs and CX Rays 24/28 black brass nipples and they are awesome

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclevt View Post
    So, for 23mm wide rims at the (about) $60/ea price point, there's:
    -Velocity A23 (440gr)
    -BHS C472w semi-aero (480gr)
    -Kinlin XC-279 (similar to BHS rims)

    Again, build will be:
    F - 24h, probably 2x
    R - 28H, 2x/3x
    DT Revolutions

    Any opinion on ride quality?
    Ride quality will come from the 23mm rims effect on the tires. Tires have a lot more give than wheels. Ask Mike T. about this
    Darryl
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  17. #17
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Profile?

    So, it comes down to profile.

    A23 rim is triangular and 19.5mm deep
    XC279 is seme-aero at 28mm deep.

    8-9mm in depth seems like a big difference and (maybe?) stiffness.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclevt View Post
    So, for 23mm wide rims at the (about) $60/ea price point, there's:
    -Velocity A23 (440gr)
    -BHS C472w semi-aero (480gr)
    -Kinlin XC-279 (similar to BHS rims)

    Again, build will be:
    F - 24h, probably 2x
    R - 28H, 2x/3x
    DT Revolutions

    Any opinion on ride quality?
    After following this thread , I decided to see if the 23mm wide rims were all that.

    I order up some H Son rims from BHS and built them up with BHS hubs. 24 radial / 28 2x3x build with alloy nipples and a mix of Sapim Lasers and Race spokes came in at 1510 grams for the pair. Put a set of 700/ 23 tires on them so I could do a direct compare to what I've been riding (Kinlin 270's). I have to admit the wide rims have nicer ride, and the handling in corners was noticeably better also.
    Are the wide H Son rims are any better than the wide Kinlins? That may be a toss up. It may come down to preference of 28 mm tall glossy finish over 25 mm tall flat finish. I wasn't a fan of the H Son logo so I removed the graphics with some paint thinner.
    Last edited by Enoch562; 12-03-2012 at 03:05 PM.

  19. #19
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    I just built my HED/BHS 24/28 wheelset but haven't had a chance to put them through the paces. a quick spin around the block and i was really pleased with the ride quality.

    weight was ~1500 grams and total cost was ~$500.

  20. #20
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclevt View Post
    So, it comes down to profile.

    A23 rim is triangular and 19.5mm deep
    XC279 is seme-aero at 28mm deep.

    8-9mm in depth seems like a big difference and (maybe?) stiffness.
    At your weight of 180 lbs and intended purpose of the wheel I would look more into the rigidity of the wheel (specially the rear) rather than the added 50 or 60 extra grams which, IMO, will be rather insignificant.

  21. #21
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I went to 23mm rim (H Plus Son Archetype) after about 10K miles on XR-270's and it was a pretty major improvement. Well worth the extra money. And not just because of the width difference.....the kinlins had a braking pulse (that eventually went away are they wore) and eventually died of many rim cracks.


    Thanks for providing real world experiences.

  22. #22
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    I use Velocity Aerohead rims which I see rarely mentioned here.
    They are lighter than all of the above rims and have off center drilling on the rear which helps equalize ds / nds tension. I once built a wheel set with XR270 and had bad brake pulsing which I see several people mentioned above. People who sell wheels with these rims say it is a rare occurence but it seems to be more than that. I personally don't like to use wide tires and low pressures because it feels too mushy too me. Michelin Pro Race3 23c at 100 psi is perfect and I don't feel the ride is too harsh or have any lack of cornering. At your weight Aeroheads might be too light but you could use Fusions which weigh about the same as those other rims. I am not trying to talk you out of buying wheels with wide rims, just saying there are other choices.

  23. #23
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    Hi all. I'm seeking some help with a build using the 23mm wide BHS rims, BHS hubs and CX-Ray spokes. The front will be 20h radial and the rear 24h 2x both sides. I weigh 150lbs. My question is whether the pulling spokes should be laced heads in or out? The NDS/DS spoke tension ratio is 46% based on the those hubs.Thanks in advance for any assistance.

  24. #24
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by biker jk View Post
    Hi all. I'm seeking some help with a build using the 23mm wide BHS rims, BHS hubs and CX-Ray spokes. The front will be 20h radial and the rear 24h 2x both sides. I weigh 150lbs. My question is whether the pulling spokes should be laced heads in or out? The NDS/DS spoke tension ratio is 46% based on the those hubs.Thanks in advance for any assistance.
    Pulling spokes on the outside flange vs. on the inside flange on a cross lacing pattern is more of a preference than anything else. Either way will work fine.

    Pulling spokes on the inside for hubs with disc brakes results for the spoke to pull inwards when braking and away from the brake caliper so certain hub manufactures recommended this lacing arrangement for their front wheel hubs. If I do the front wheel pulling spokes on the inside then I do the rear the same so they match.

  25. #25
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Fusions

    Quote Originally Posted by jnbrown View Post
    I use Velocity Aerohead rims which I see rarely mentioned here.
    They are lighter than all of the above rims and have off center drilling on the rear which helps equalize ds / nds tension. I once built a wheel set with XR270 and had bad brake pulsing which I see several people mentioned above. People who sell wheels with these rims say it is a rare occurence but it seems to be more than that. I personally don't like to use wide tires and low pressures because it feels too mushy too me. Michelin Pro Race3 23c at 100 psi is perfect and I don't feel the ride is too harsh or have any lack of cornering. At your weight Aeroheads might be too light but you could use Fusions which weigh about the same as those other rims. I am not trying to talk you out of buying wheels with wide rims, just saying there are other choices.
    I had a pretty light set of Fusions built 8 years ago - 24f/28r. That's a great rim that I've considered as well.

    Kinlins - I have a set of cyclocross tubulars build on the kinlin TB25 rim and they have been really greats. Some of that is the builder (Redstone bikes in Lyons, CO is awesome!) and some of it is the rim. I can't speak to the pulsing because cross brakes always just plain suck and I never really get on the brakes too much to know.

    So, for a while was pretty set on the kinlin XR-270s. Then I started reading about the 23mm craze and re-thought the rim.

    By the way, I still have the fusion front wheel. It was rebuilt with new spokes after a bad road crash and has since done duty as a cross training clincher ... super strong and durable, even with CX abuse! The rear wheel was scavenged for the hub to make the tubular cx set. Rim is hanging on the wall waiting for a hub..

    The new bike I just bought came with a new set of Easton EA50 Aero wheels that use a 30mm deep rim. They are quite nice wheels, but I find them needlessly heavy (1800gr/set). I was planning on selling them to finance this build. I really like the idea of the 23mm rim and <1600gr wheelset.

    You know, gotta have the newest, lightest stuff.....

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