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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clipped_in View Post
    Plus, you drop a little bit of weight because of shorter spokes.
    LOL! And losing that 0.3 grams will make you go sooooooooo much faster!
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

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  2. #127
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    Hey now, it's like a 5g savings (average 2x spoke is ~5mm shorter than average 3x spoke, x 56 spokes in a 28/28 set = 280mm less total spoke length = ~1 spoke = ~5g) and there are people who would pay real money for that! That's rotating weight!

    And this is officially the first time I've ever even considered that aspect of this particular decision.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    Hey now, it's like a 5g savings (average 2x spoke is ~5mm shorter than average 3x spoke, x 56 spokes in a 28/28 set = 280mm less total spoke length = ~1 spoke = ~5g) and there are people who would pay real money for that! That's rotating weight!

    And this is officially the first time I've ever even considered that aspect of this particular decision.
    Not sure what your opinion is on the subject, but I'm skeptical about the importance of rotating weight. From what I understand, rotating weight will make you FELL slower because you will accelerate slower. Once up to speed, it doesn't make a difference whether weight is rotating or static.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  4. #129
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    When someone creates a font called "sarcasm" I will buy it and use it often. I've never seen any compelling evidence that rotating weight is anywhere close to as significant as it it often credited with being. And in order to feel slower, it is my experience and belief that you have to add one HECK of a lot more than 5g to produce that effect.

  5. #130
    changingleaf
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    Great rim so far. The asymmetrical spoke drilling really improves the lateral stiffness.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Pacenti Forza Road Rim-20170406_100959.jpg  

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    When someone creates a font called "sarcasm" I will buy it and use it often. I've never seen any compelling evidence that rotating weight is anywhere close to as significant as it it often credited with being. And in order to feel slower, it is my experience and belief that you have to add one HECK of a lot more than 5g to produce that effect.
    I had assumed your last post about rotating weight was in sarcasm. I just had to get one more jab at the rotating weight weenie crowd.

    Isn't this the sarcasm emoji?
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  7. #132
    wut?
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    If I were a weight weenie my butt would be 10# lighter...

  8. #133
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    So I came across this thread when I was trying to find a ride review of the Pacenti Forza rim.

    I have the arena of gravel bike riding. I bought a 2016 Tamland 1 for a sweetheart of a deal. The bike for sure doesn't climb like my road bike. It weighs in at 24.5 lbs in a 56 cm and with mt. bike pedals 25.10. I climbed my local mt. fire tower road and knew I had to make some changes. I swapped out the 12x32 Shimano rear cassette with a 12x36 Sram.

    I am looking to still drop some weight and from what I am reading a lighter wheel set is another place to look for that. I will keep the stock wheel set if I want to go touring/bike camping with this bike or mt. bike so the wheels don't have to be bullet proof like a mt. bike wheel has to be built to. I am in the 185 - 195 lb. range and I don't need the bling of Shimano Dura Ace. I am looking for mid price range wheel built up set. The wheels on the bike are set up with disc brakes. Tires will probably always be in the 700x40 range.

    Some other rims/wheels people are throwing out there

    H plus Son Hydra
    Velocity
    Kinlin not sure if TL-21 or TL-23
    Ryde Pulse Comp
    WTB Frequency or KOM

    HUB probably DT 350 how do these compare to T11

    Spokes

    probably d light
    one guy said he put CX sprint on the drive side.

    I don't know the difference between the d light Sapim race or CX sprint spokes.

    Lots of ideas on the nipples I guess I would choose alloy over brass.

    Probably 28 spokes on the rear. One guy posted that a 24 on the front is probably twitchy for a newbie rider like me because of high tension on the spokes so I guess a 26.

    Any suggestions or help would be gladly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Zman
    Last edited by Zurichman; 05-20-2017 at 02:04 PM.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    So I came across this thread when I was trying to find a ride review of the Pacenti Forza rim.

    I have the arena of gravel bike riding. I bought a 2016 Tamland 1 for a sweetheart of a deal. The bike for sure doesn't climb like my road bike. It weighs in at 24.5 lbs in a 56 cm and with mt. bike pedals 25.10. I climbed my local mt. fire tower road and knew I had to make some changes. I swapped out the 12x32 Shimano rear cassette with a 12x36 Sram.

    I am looking to still drop some weight and from what I am reading a lighter wheel set is another place to look for that. I will keep the stock wheel set if I want to go touring/bike camping with this bike or mt. bike so the wheels don't have to be bullet proof like a mt. bike wheel has to be built to. I am in the 185 - 195 lb. range and I don't need the bling of Shimano Dura Ace. I am looking for mid price range wheel built up set. The wheels on the bike are set up with disc brakes. Tires will probably always be in the 700x40 range.

    Some other rims/wheels people are throwing out there

    H plus Son Hydra
    Velocity
    Kinlin not sure if TL-21 or TL-23
    Ryde Pulse Comp
    WTB Frequency or KOM

    HUB probably DT 350 how do these compare to T11

    Spokes

    probably d light
    one guy said he put CX sprint on the drive side.

    I don't know the difference between the d light Sapim race or CX sprint spokes.

    Lots of ideas on the nipples I guess I would choose alloy over brass.

    Probably 28 spokes on the rear. One guy posted that a 24 on the front is probably twitchy for a newbie rider like me because of high tension on the spokes so I guess a 26.

    Any suggestions or help would be gladly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Zman
    Before you go spending money on a new wheelset in order to get better climbing, I would change your tires. The tires that come stock on that bike, the Clement X'PLOR MSO, have an aggressive tread. Those are great for gravel, but don't roll as good as a smoother tire for road riding. You can always put them back on for challenging gravel conditions. Check out the Kenda Kwest. They roll really nice, the price is right and are wide enough that they will work fine on dry dirt roads. I have these on my 29lb. hybrid and let me tell you, they fly:

    https://www.amazon.com/Kenda-Kwest-Black-Tire-700x40c/dp/B00NJYB6TS

    Of the rims you mention above, the H+Son Hydras are probably your best choice. Keep in mind that the White Industries T11 you mention is a rim brake hub. They do have excellent disc brake hubs, the CLD and the XMR depending on whether your disc brakes are center lock or 6-bolt:

    HUBS — White Industries

    As far as spoke count, on a disc brake bike, I wouldn't go any less than 28 front and rear due to braking forces at the hubs. 32 is preferable. I would also use brass nipples as alloy nipples are prone to corrosion. The weight difference is negligible.

    As I said before, your tires will make the most difference, but tread design, not weight is what will make a difference.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Before you go spending money on a new wheelset in order to get better climbing, I would change your tires. The tires that come stock on that bike, the Clement X'PLOR MSO, have an aggressive tread. Those are great for gravel, but don't roll as good as a smoother tire for road riding. You can always put them back on for challenging gravel conditions. Check out the Kenda Kwest. They roll really nice, the price is right and are wide enough that they will work fine on dry dirt roads. I have these on my 29lb. hybrid and let me tell you, they fly:

    https://www.amazon.com/Kenda-Kwest-Black-Tire-700x40c/dp/B00NJYB6TS

    Of the rims you mention above, the H+Son Hydras are probably your best choice. Keep in mind that the White Industries T11 you mention is a rim brake hub. They do have excellent disc brake hubs, the CLD and the XMR depending on whether your disc brakes are center lock or 6-bolt:

    HUBS — White Industries

    As far as spoke count, on a disc brake bike, I wouldn't go any less than 28 front and rear due to braking forces at the hubs. 32 is preferable. I would also use brass nipples as alloy nipples are prone to corrosion. The weight difference is negligible.

    As I said before, your tires will make the most difference, but tread design, not weight is what will make a difference.
    Lombard thanks for all this info. I already have a road bike so I am setting this bike up specifically for gravel grinding or off road. I really like the stock tires on this bike for riding on the road. That could be because my only off road bike is just a step above Wally World bike in a Schwinn highlander that has knobby tires on it.

    My bike has the 6 bolt pattern on the discs. From your advice I for sure will have 32 spokes on the back and 28 or 32 on the front. I will use the brass then as I plan on this bike being around lots of wet conditions. What can you tell me of me reading one wheel builder using CX sprint spokes on the drive side and what is the difference between these spokes and Sapim race or D light. What would be a good set up CX sprint on the drive side and then the rest being d light or Sapim race?

    Finally can you give me a good comparison between DT350 Shimano CX-75 or the White CLD OR I will look this up to see which is 6 bolt.

    I need to go out and ride the bike more to get more of a feel of the bike but my gut reaction is that I probably will want to upgrade the disc braking system also.

    Thanks again
    Zman

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    Lombard thanks for all this info. I already have a road bike so I am setting this bike up specifically for gravel grinding or off road. I really like the stock tires on this bike for riding on the road. That could be because my only off road bike is just a step above Wally World bike in a Schwinn highlander that has knobby tires on it.
    Understood. But that will slow you down a lot more than stock wheels will. It's a trade-off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    My bike has the 6 bolt pattern on the discs. From your advice I for sure will have 32 spokes on the back and 28 or 32 on the front. I will use the brass then as I plan on this bike being around lots of wet conditions.
    Oh, definitely brass then!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    What can you tell me of me reading one wheel builder using CX sprint spokes on the drive side and what is the difference between these spokes and Sapim race or D light. What would be a good set up CX sprint on the drive side and then the rest being d light or Sapim race?
    CX Sprint are bladed spokes, Race and D Light are double butted round spokes. D Light are thinner in the middle than Race. See below:

    Sapim Race - Black - $0.90

    Sapim D-Light Spoke - Black

    Sapim CX-Sprint Bladed Spoke - $2.40

    I really don't understand why your builder wants to use bladed spokes only on your drive side. That seems awkward aesthetically. I do understand some builders like to use thicker spokes on the drive side than the non-drive side. Using Race on the DS and D-Light on the NDS would achieve this. This is done mainly to compensate for lower NDS tensions on rim brake bikes. Since you have disc brakes, there is less of a difference in spoke tensions, so it's really unnecessary. As you can see, there is a considerable cost difference between these options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    Finally can you give me a good comparison between DT350 Shimano CX-75 or the White CLD OR I will look this up to see which is 6 bolt.
    Looking at your bike again, there is something else you must pay attention to. Many disc brake bikes now have thru-axles. Yours still has quick releases. Thru-axles have become more popular with disc brake bikes for the reason that disc braking forces produce tremendous torque. Thru-axles are assurance that your hub won't pull out of your fork or stays while braking. They also assure that your hub is centered in exactly the same spot each time installed. This is especially important for disc brakes as the calipers sit much closer to the braking surfaces than rim calipers do. A few mm off and you will have brake rub. Unless you are looking for a brutal training ride, this is probably not what you want.

    But anyway, I digress. Of the hubs you mention, I would narrow them down to two - White Industries XMR (CLD is for center lock dsics), and the Shimano CX75 if you can get it in 6-bolt, which I don't see anywhere. The thing I don't like about DT hubs is they use an aluminum freehub body. Aluminum is soft and is prone to being gouged into by your cassette. Once that happens, shifting will suffer and in extreme cases, your cassette will be nearly impossible to remove from your freehub. White Industries uses Ti, Shimano uses steel. Of these two hubs, your main decision will be whether you like a quiet freehub (Shimano) or noisier one (White Industries). FYI, DT Swiss is probably the noisiest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    I need to go out and ride the bike more to get more of a feel of the bike but my gut reaction is that I probably will want to upgrade the disc braking system also.
    What is it you don't like about your brakes? It looks like they are mechanical, not hydraulic. Are you looking to go to hydraulic for better modulation?
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Understood. But that will slow you down a lot more than stock wheels will. It's a trade-off.



    Oh, definitely brass then!



    CX Sprint are bladed spokes, Race and D Light are double butted round spokes. D Light are thinner in the middle than Race. See below:

    Sapim Race - Black - $0.90

    Sapim D-Light Spoke - Black

    Sapim CX-Sprint Bladed Spoke - $2.40

    I really don't understand why your builder wants to use bladed spokes only on your drive side. That seems awkward aesthetically. I do understand some builders like to use thicker spokes on the drive side than the non-drive side. Using Race on the DS and D-Light on the NDS would achieve this. This is done mainly to compensate for lower NDS tensions on rim brake bikes. Since you have disc brakes, there is less of a difference in spoke tensions, so it's really unnecessary. As you can see, there is a considerable cost difference between these options.



    Looking at your bike again, there is something else you must pay attention to. Many disc brake bikes now have thru-axles. Yours still has quick releases. Thru-axles have become more popular with disc brake bikes for the reason that disc braking forces produce tremendous torque. Thru-axles are assurance that your hub won't pull out of your fork or stays while braking. They also assure that your hub is centered in exactly the same spot each time installed. This is especially important for disc brakes as the calipers sit much closer to the braking surfaces than rim calipers do. A few mm off and you will have brake rub. Unless you are looking for a brutal training ride, this is probably not what you want.

    But anyway, I digress. Of the hubs you mention, I would narrow them down to two - White Industries XMR (CLD is for center lock dsics), and the Shimano CX75 if you can get it in 6-bolt, which I don't see anywhere. The thing I don't like about DT hubs is they use an aluminum freehub body. Aluminum is soft and is prone to being gouged into by your cassette. Once that happens, shifting will suffer and in extreme cases, your cassette will be nearly impossible to remove from your freehub. White Industries uses Ti, Shimano uses steel. Of these two hubs, your main decision will be whether you like a quiet freehub (Shimano) or noisier one (White Industries). FYI, DT Swiss is probably the noisiest.



    What is it you don't like about your brakes? It looks like they are mechanical, not hydraulic. Are you looking to go to hydraulic for better modulation?
    Well a little bit more about the wheel build. I keep saying that I love the stock wheels but then I have nothing to compare that to as I am new to gravel riding and my old Schwinn mt. bike is junk. If I am going to go to the expense of getting a wheel build done I may as well have some faster tires on their or I am defeating the purpose.

    My wheel builder from what advice I have received from some forum wheel builders was going to build me a mt. bike overkill wheel.

    His proposal

    hope pro 4 hub set somebody said they aren't the best hubs

    Stans Arch EX butted spokes and brass nipples

    On one of the forums I read where a wheel builder was using or like to use CX sprint blades on the drive side. So thanks for that info on the spokes. Ted Guitar over at gravel grinding website was to help Raleigh design this bike. I am not sure why he wanted quick release over the thru axle design. I guess the drop outs on the forks are different with the bikes that have the thru axles. On the disc brakes maybe I still have to get use to the bike but I went out and climbed my local mt which had a 3 mile climb/downhill to it. Coming off I sure seemed to be grabbing a lot of brake and it seemed like there wasn't enough braking to slow me down like I thought it should be.

    Finally what disc rims do you like that are mid grade that is somewhat light and could be built up to 32 rear and 28 front. Thanks for any and all advice.

    BTW I have a hearing loss so it doesn't matter how much noise my hubs make.

    Zman

  13. #138
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    Lombard I don't think the White XMR is going to work. I see the rear alone is almost $400 I was hoping to get my wheel builder to build this set in the $500 - $600 range. That isn't going to happen with a hub that expensive.

    Zman

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    So I called Jenson USA and no they don't make the CX 75 in the 6 hole pattern. What he suggested was just build the new wheel set up with center lock disks. He had RT81 in I tec I believe which he said was a 2 piece rotor which was to disipate the heat faster 140mm($31). He had more options in the 160mm something like RT70($7.99) I know nothing about rotors.

    Zman

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    Well a little bit more about the wheel build. I keep saying that I love the stock wheels......
    Then why are you replacing them? The Weinmann rims and Formula hubs on your bike are entry level for sure, but there isn't anything wrong with them. What are you hoping to achieve with new wheels? If it's more bling, I understand. Who doesn't like a new pair of wheels? If you're planning on being able to go faster with new expensive wheels, you will be disappointed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    My wheel builder from what advice I have received from some forum wheel builders was going to build me a mt. bike overkill wheel.

    His proposal

    hope pro 4 hub set somebody said they aren't the best hubs

    Stans Arch EX butted spokes and brass nipples
    Did your wheelbuilder ask the same thing I did Re: What do you hope to achieve from new wheels? I don't know a lot about Hope Pro or Stans Arch. I do remember a thread here on RBR critical of Hope hubs. You may want to do a search.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    Ted Guitar over at gravel grinding website was to help Raleigh design this bike. I am not sure why he wanted quick release over the thru axle design. I guess the drop outs on the forks are different with the bikes that have the thru axles.
    Exactly! Fork and rear stays would have to be different Raleigh saved $$ in production costs by only having one frameset design, not two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    On the disc brakes maybe I still have to get use to the bike but I went out and climbed my local mt which had a 3 mile climb/downhill to it. Coming off I sure seemed to be grabbing a lot of brake and it seemed like there wasn't enough braking to slow me down like I thought it should be.
    Surprising considering disc brakes usually have stronger braking. I'm guessing you need nothing more than an adjustment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    Finally what disc rims do you like that are mid grade that is somewhat light and could be built up to 32 rear and 28 front. Thanks for any and all advice.
    If you are flush, go with the HED Belgium Plus Disc rims. Great quality rims:

    https://www.hedcycling.com/belgium-p...rake-clincher/

    Otherwise, the H+Son Hydra is also a very good disc rim. Bike Hub Store has these for $80:

    https://www.bikehubstore.com/h-plus-...ra-p/hydra.htm

    The Hydra | H PLUS SON

    Those would be my top two picks.
    Last edited by Lombard; 05-22-2017 at 07:33 AM.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
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    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    So I called Jenson USA and no they don't make the CX 75 in the 6 hole pattern. What he suggested was just build the new wheel set up with center lock disks. He had RT81 in I tec I believe which he said was a 2 piece rotor which was to disipate the heat faster 140mm($31). He had more options in the 160mm something like RT70($7.99) I know nothing about rotors.

    Zman
    The rotors you have are 160mm. It is advisable to have at least 160mm front and 140mm rear.

    Center locks are much more convenient for removal and installation. 6-bolt is an older design.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Then why are you replacing them? The Weinmann rims and Formula hubs on your bike are entry level for sure, but there isn't anything wrong with them. What are you hoping to achieve with new wheels? If it's more bling, I understand. Who doesn't like a new pair of wheels? If you're planning on being able to go faster with new expensive wheels, you will be disappointed.



    Did your wheelbuilder ask the same thing I did Re: What do you hope to achieve from new wheels? I don't know a lot about Hope Pro or Stans Arch. I do remember a thread here on RBR critical of Hope hubs. You may want to do a search.



    Exactly! Fork and rear stays would have to be different Raleigh saved $$ in production costs by only having one frameset design, not two.



    Surprising considering disc brakes usually have stronger braking. I'm guessing you need nothing more than an adjustment.



    If you are flush, go with the HED Belgium Plus Disc rims. Great quality rims:

    https://www.hedcycling.com/belgium-p...rake-clincher/

    Otherwise, the H+Son Hydra is also a very good disc rim. Bike Hub Store has these for $80:

    https://www.bikehubstore.com/h-plus-...ra-p/hydra.htm

    The Hydra | H PLUS SON

    Those would be my top two picks.

    I had a typo. I meant to say I like the stock wheels. What I was trying to do was shave some weight off the bike/help make it go faster and save the stock wheel set up for road riding/bike camping/regular training it had 12 x 32 and then build up the next wheel set with the 12 x 36 I put on it with the faster tires and use if for the gravel racing. Yeah I saw a really negative comment on the Hope hubs so I wouldn't even consider them. The Hed Belgiums are out of my price range. Maybe I just need to go out and ride the crap out of everything and then replace it when needed which is probably a lot of miles.
    Last edited by Zurichman; 05-22-2017 at 08:14 AM.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post

    hope pro 4 hub set somebody said they aren't the best hubs
    So whats supposed to be wrong with Hope Hubs? Beside being very affordable, and A little heavier? THey have always been a go to hub in the MTB world.

    Somebody is feeding you line.
    Last edited by Enoch562; 05-22-2017 at 10:52 AM.

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    Maybe I just need to go out and ride the crap out of everything and then replace it when needed which is probably a lot of miles.
    Now you're talking! Riding more will make you a lot faster than lighter wheels will.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch562 View Post
    So whats supposed to be wrong with Hope Hubs? Beside being very affordable, and A little heavier? THey have always been a go to hub in the MTB world.

    Somebody is feeding you line.
    This is from a wheel builder of 30 years from another forum and some of what he said.

    Of the aftermarket hubs they are some of the least desireable

    bearings are terrible

    extremely high drag

    freewheeling noise when new is loudest in the industry(that doesn't bother me)

    plastic snap ring that holds the free hub in place is poor design and is conductive to letting in seal grime as it wears because it's not proper labyrinth

    really soft free hub bodies that are highly prone to cassette gouging. This is big to me as that means the cassette could become(especially the back) frozen/tight to the cassette.

    Since this wheel build has this experience it's probably a hub that I am not looking for. You might have been lucky with yours or not a lot of miles on them yet. At any rate good luck with them.

    Zman

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurichman View Post
    really soft free hub bodies that are highly prone to cassette gouging. This is big to me as that means the cassette could become(especially the back) frozen/tight to the cassette.
    This can be a problem with any aluminum freehub body. I guess the hardness/softness of the alloy can make a difference. If you're not a hard rider and ride mostly flat terrain, this may not be an issue. If you're a hard rider or a clyde, you probably want to avoid an aluminum freehub body.

    Unfortunately, this eliminates just about everything except Shimano or White Industries. If anybody knows of any others, I'm all eyes and ears. Most shimano hubs are steel (except Dura-Ace and XTR). White Industries and Shimano Dura-Ace and XTR are Titanium.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

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  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    This can be a problem with any aluminum freehub body. I guess the hardness/softness of the alloy can make a difference. If you're not a hard rider and ride mostly flat terrain, this may not be an issue. If you're a hard rider or a clyde, you probably want to avoid an aluminum freehub body.

    Unfortunately, this eliminates just about everything except Shimano or White Industries. If anybody knows of any others, I'm all eyes and ears. Most shimano hubs are steel (except Dura-Ace and XTR). White Industries and Shimano Dura-Ace and XTR are Titanium.
    Exactly...

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    This can be a problem with any aluminum freehub body. I guess the hardness/softness of the alloy can make a difference. If you're not a hard rider and ride mostly flat terrain, this may not be an issue. If you're a hard rider or a clyde, you probably want to avoid an aluminum freehub body.

    Unfortunately, this eliminates just about everything except Shimano or White Industries. If anybody knows of any others, I'm all eyes and ears. Most shimano hubs are steel (except Dura-Ace and XTR). White Industries and Shimano Dura-Ace and XTR are Titanium.
    If this was as much of an issue as forumites make out, why wouldn't Chris King (maker of arguably the most expensive hubs) have switched from alum? They did offer a steel cassette carrier many years ago.
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  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    If this was as much of an issue as forumites make out, why wouldn't Chris King (maker of arguably the most expensive hubs) have switched from alum? They did offer a steel cassette carrier many years ago.

    Not sure what the answer to this is, Mike. My only guesses are:

    1) Chris King uses a harder alloy?

    2) People who purchase boutique hubs are less concerned with longevity than they are with weight? When their freehub bodies become gouged, they shrug it off and replace them?

    Keep this in mind. Someone who drives a Mercedes isn't going to buy a Honda just because Hondas are more reliable than Mercedes.

    Just guessing. I take it you have never had a problem with this, Mike? From my past conversations with you, I remember you are only 165lbs. and live in an area that is flat as a pancake. Food for thought.
    Last edited by Lombard; 05-23-2017 at 08:25 AM.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    People who purchase boutique hubs are less concerned with longevity than they are with weight? When their freehub bodies become gouged, they shrug it off and replace them?
    I'm concerned. My King MTB hubs are about 15 years old.

    Keep this in mind. Someone who drives a Mercedes isn't going to buy a Honda just because Hondas are more reliable than Mercedes.
    They're not. Not to me anyways. My Mercedes is just as reliable as all the Hondas I've had (4 Accords. 2 Acura).

    Just guessing. I take it you have never had a problem with this, Mike? From my past conversations with you, I remember you are only 165lbs. and live in an area that is flat as a pancake. Food for thought.
    Nope, not a problem. Oh I see indents but they don't cause problems. 165? I wish. More like 175 now. Flat? Hmmm, kinda (relatively to "hilly") but as a lover of hills I know where they all are that I have trouble with in 24/32 on the MTB or 34/26 on the road bike.

    Oh I buy hubs with Ti carriers (DA and WI) and while I wouldn't buy King again, it isn't because they have an aluminum cassette carrier.
    .
    Mike T's home wheelbuilding site - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder's with motivation, information and resources.

    Everything above, up to that blue line, is IMO IMO.

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