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  1. #1
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    Orion II broken spoke - replace with normal spoke?

    I broke a spoke - one of the double threaded ones - on my velomax orion II front wheel. I called up easton and they said that a normal LBS should be able to make a double threaded spoke for me so that I wouldn't have to order new ones from easton.

    Does anyone have any experience with this, or how to do it? I'd appreciate any help.

  2. #2
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    Reputation: DaveLobster's Avatar
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    You need to find a bike shop that has a Phil Wood spoke threading machine. Most shops won't have one, you will need to find a shop that is heavy into wheelbuilding.

    Then they will take a normal spoke, cut off the hub (bent) end and thread it, and you will have your double theaded spoke! Have them make a couple while they are at it.
    "Ride Lots" - EM

  3. #3
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    Which end broke? Hopefully at the rim. If it broke at the hub, go ahead and send it back to to Easton. They have the needed experience to replace that spoke. Actually, replacing is easy, getting the broken part out is not easy. It is Loctited in place with red loctite. The old Velo-max site had repair instructions and the required spoke lengths. If you decide to try it and cannot get anyone to make a spoke, contact me via PM.

    http://www.eastonbike.com/downloadab...poke%20R&R.pdf

  4. #4
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    Dave Lobster is right about how it's done. My LBS has one, don't know if it's a Phil Woods, it's old. Sometimes he may not have the correct length spoke so he'll take a longer one and cut it to the right length and then thread it. It works great.

  5. #5
    Chili hed & old bike fixr
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawrence
    Dave Lobster is right about how it's done. My LBS has one, don't know if it's a Phil Woods, it's old. Sometimes he may not have the correct length spoke so he'll take a longer one and cut it to the right length and then thread it. It works great.
    If it is a Hozan, the spoke will be weaker. I have a Phil machine.

  6. #6
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    *sigh* why is that this forum seems to need the most expensive, most specalized, most new, now and wow tool to do even the simplest of tasks....
    Sears is your freind... really!
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    This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. (1 Timothy 1:15)

    You can't spell Christmas, without Christ...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visitor302
    *sigh* why is that this forum seems to need the most expensive, most specalized, most new, now and wow tool to do even the simplest of tasks....
    Sears is your freind... really!
    And what do you use to hold the spoke while threading it, such that you don't mar it?

    The Phil machine is superior, in that it rolls the threads rather than cuts them. Much stronger result.
    A good habit is as hard to break as a bad one..

  8. #8
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    +1 on the strength:
    The weakest area of any mechanical fastener is the minor diameter of the threads.One could actually argue that the work hardening which occurs during the roll threading process may even make the fastener with rolled threads stronger. Additionally, cut threading interrupts the natural grain structure of the round bar whereas roll threading reforms it. One could again argue that cutting into the grain of a round bar when cut threading may produce threads which have less structural integrity than a part which has been roll threaded.
    PRICE is what you pay....VALUE is what you receive

  9. #9
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    Damn. I didn't realize it was so complicated to get a spoke threaded. I got the only LBS in my area that had any sort of spoke cutting or spoke rolling machine to make me one. Not sure if they had a spoke cutter or the phil wood machine. I'll just ride it and see what happens. If it breaks, I'll know why.

  10. #10
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    Not to worry

    Quote Originally Posted by bikersteve
    Damn. I didn't realize it was so complicated to get a spoke threaded. I got the only LBS in my area that had any sort of spoke cutting or spoke rolling machine to make me one. Not sure if they had a spoke cutter or the phil wood machine. I'll just ride it and see what happens. If it breaks, I'll know why.
    The odds are extremely high that your bike shop has a "thread roller" rather than a "thread cutter." As dan1 said, it would be hard to clamp a spoke to use a (very tiny) die to cut the threads. Bike shops buy bike tools, and the bike tool for threading spokes is a roller device. (probably )

  11. #11
    Chili hed & old bike fixr
    Reputation: curlybike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons
    The odds are extremely high that your bike shop has a "thread roller" rather than a "thread cutter." As dan1 said, it would be hard to clamp a spoke to use a (very tiny) die to cut the threads. Bike shops buy bike tools, and the bike tool for threading spokes is a roller device. (probably )
    The Phil Wood machine absolutely is a thread rolling device.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visitor302
    *sigh* why is that this forum seems to need the most expensive, most specalized, most new, now and wow tool to do even the simplest of tasks....
    Sears is your freind... really!
    Just to see, I went and got my metric tap and die set like pictured. The smallest die is marked "M3 0.5" and the threaded end of a Sapim Lazer spoke passes right through. So sometimes you do need bike-specific tools. Plus, no one here was suggesting that the OP BUY the $3000 Phil machine, just that he find a shop that had one.

    That reminds me a couple years ago I was changing out the BB in my steel Gios. I wanted to have a shop just "chase" the threads to clean them up, and no shop in town had an Italian-threaded BB tap. So I looked at the price to buy my own from a place like Bike Tools Etc., and it was about $300 iirc. So I thought I'll outsmart them and just buy a standard tap from a tool place. What I found was that a) that size tap is not very common and b) when I did find it it was so expensive to buy that I might as well have gotten the right "bike specific" tool.
    "Ride Lots" - EM

  13. #13
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    LBS should charge you less than $5 for a custom cut spoke. A fair charge would probably be $10 because of the labor but most shops will do it cheaper only because they want your business. If they have a spoke in stock, I'd think it would be less than $3, maybe only $1 or $2.

  14. #14
    Chili hed & old bike fixr
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    Well, If the OP had contacted me, I would have made the danged spoke to the length that he required and shipped to him the same danged day, he would have had it by now, and he could have sent me the shipping cost later, but I am tired of waiting to hear from him. Why is it so hard to help someone?

  15. #15
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    Helping hands

    Quote Originally Posted by curlybike
    Well, If the OP had contacted me, I would have made the danged spoke to the length that he required and shipped to him the same danged day, he would have had it by now, and he could have sent me the shipping cost later, but I am tired of waiting to hear from him. Why is it so hard to help someone?
    Haven't you noticed how many times somebody will post a question and then NEVER respond to all the replies they get, including the replies that ask key clarifying questions? It makes you wonder

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by curlybike
    Well, If the OP had contacted me, I would have made the danged spoke to the length that he required and shipped to him the same danged day, he would have had it by now, and he could have sent me the shipping cost later, but I am tired of waiting to hear from him. Why is it so hard to help someone?
    Well if you had paid attention to my "danged" reply midway through this thread, you would have read that I already had my lbs make a spoke for me and replace it on the wheel. I don't have a blow torch to remove the broken spoke, and i don't have the time to replace it myself, so it was probably the easiest way to do it. They did charge me a sh!t ton for their work - 15 bucks, so i probably won't go out of my way to do it again that way.

    I appreciate your help, and especially the offer, but I can probably spare the attitude.

    Thanks everyone for your help.

  17. #17
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    $15 is a really good bargain for that job, I have done that repair and it is not near as easy as you might think. You should have been happy to pay $40.

  18. #18
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    If he cut the spoke and got the broken one out for $15??? That is really cheap. It may be worth $40, it may have been worth $70. LBS get $15 or more for just replacing a derailleur cable. I would have been glad to pay $40. $70? Well, if I had to, it still would have been worth it.

    You are suppose to have less broken spokes with these threaded straight spokes without the J bend. Some aren't bad to get out as the hubs are very thin or narrow and may use some type of a nut on the end at the hub but sometimes the spoke goes directly into a thicker hub such as the Specialized Roval Rapide Star Carbon Wheels. Very nice wheels but WOW if you break a spoke!

  19. #19
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    Well maybe it wasn't so bad then. To save time and money I'm usually a do it yourself sort of person, and I rarely spend money getting things fixed at the lbs unless i have to. If 15 bucks is reasonable, so be it. If it cost 40 or 70 ( ), I'd have probably ordered the spoke directly from easton ($1 each spoke), bought a blow torch, and done it myself.

    That wheel has been good to me overall, pending i don't break another spoke (knock on wood). I've probably put ~8000 miles on it and its outlasted its first frame, rear wheel counterpart and many other pieces of bicycle that have broken in that time frame.

  20. #20
    Chili hed & old bike fixr
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    Blowtorch not required. One of those bic lighters with the long nozzle for doing candles and charcoal is just about perfect. You can heat the spoke and not worry about heating it enough to make it mushy and twist off.

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