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Thread: Suggestions?

  1. #1
    The Slow One.
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    Suggestions?

    Hope this is OK to post here. If not, feel free to move it to the General Cycling Discussion section where everything else goes.

    I'm considering a general purpose wheel build for my Moots Compact. Currently it's built up with 10 speed SRAM Force/caliper brakes. This bike is my do-anything ride, from training to commuting to travel to foul weather (yes, to include rain).

    I was considering HED Belgium or Belgium + rims in a 24/28 or 28/32 spoke count. I have a 1st gen set of HED Kermesses which have always been nice enough, although I was never crazy about the hubs or spoke count on this particular set. I'm not the heaviest guy in the world (not the lightest either), but I do ride on some rough roads from time to time.

    I'm not exactly sure what hub to go with at this point. Chris Kings have always been lust-worthy for me, but I'm thinking something like a DT Swiss 240s might be more in line with my environment. The standard Shimano Ultegras are also an option. I'm pretty much open to any suggestion except another cheap Powerways or Novatecs. I have enough of those, thank you. Something smooth, reliable, and durable.

    Suggestions?

  2. #2
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    Take a look at the road hub from Onyx Racing Products. I really enjoy mine. Yes, it's expensive and a tad heavy, but it coasts silently with very low drag, and the engagement feels perfect every time.

    ORP has a good reputation in mountain biking and BMX racing, so I assume their stuff holds up quite well under abuse.

  3. #3
    A wheelist
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    Consider White Industries.

    Benefits over King - No special tool needed for service and overhaul. Titanium cassette carrier, not aluminum. Less cost.
    Even the DT-240 need a special tool to get that ring drive/bearing retainer out.

    My own luxury hub of choice on two of my own wheelsets is DuraAce. Titanium cassette carrier.


    I have a couple of new sets of 10-spd 24/28 DuraAce in storage if you're interested - compete with those excellent DuraAce skewers.
    Last edited by Mike T.; 04-25-2018 at 10:16 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    My own luxury hub of choice on two of my own wheelsets is DuraAce. Titanium cassette carrier.
    Of the ones Mike mentioned, I would pick Dura-Ace. There is also nothing wrong with Ultegra except that many builders don't like being confined to a 32 spoke build. All Shimano hubs have nice quiet coasting. There is a click, but it's very quiet.

    My last build was with Dura-Ace 9000 hubs 24 spoke front/32 spoke rear. If this is going to be a commuter/winter rider/ rough roader, then there is little to gain from a smaller spoke count and more to lose.

    Personally, I would go with a pair of Shimano Ultegra 6800 hubs and a conventional 32/32 build if I were you. The 6800 generation hubs have the "digital adjust" feature trickled down from the Dura-Ace hubs of earlier generations. The pair of these is on sale at Jenson USA for $133 + an additional 15% off through the end of April with their "RIDE15" promo. This puts you at $113 for the pair. Free 2-day shipping on all orders over $50:

    Shimano Ultegra HB-6800 Hub | Jenson USA
    Last edited by Lombard; 04-26-2018 at 07:50 AM.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  5. #5
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    "from training to commuting to travel to foul weather (yes, to include rain)."

    Shimano or WI. And not just WI T11. Look at MI5 too if you plan to really beat on them. Internals are the same and flanges are beefed up a bit as compared to T11. Not to imply breaking a flange should be a big concern but a little extra strength for a few grams doesn't hurt either.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    "from training to commuting to travel to foul weather (yes, to include rain)."

    Shimano or WI. And not just WI T11. Look at MI5 too if you plan to really beat on them. Internals are the same and flanges are beefed up a bit as compared to T11. Not to imply breaking a flange should be a big concern but a little extra strength for a few grams doesn't hurt either.
    I should have also mentioned that if you happen to decide on the MI5 you would need to speak to them to get 130 rear spacing. The default/stock is 135.

  7. #7
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    I have a set of King/HED Belgium Plus wheels from the Chris King Wheelshop. They have about 15k miles on them and have never needed anything more than basic service (lube). I've never even needed to true them.

    BTW, I'm 6' 5" and about 235lbs at winter riding weight.

    Chris King Wheels

    I have other wheels on bikes that don't get ridden as much.

    Enve 3.5 with DT240
    HED Belgium Plus wwith White hubs
    A few other assorted sets for various situations.

    None have as many miles as my King/HED set, but they are all good quality wheels.

    If I were going for a new set of wheels today, I might consider the Whites over the Kings for the reasons MikeT mentioned, but you really can't go wrong with either.
    Last edited by Finx; 04-26-2018 at 09:08 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    but I'm thinking something like a DT Swiss 240s might be more in line with my environment.
    I happened to have recently built a rear wheel with DT Swiss 240s hub. I like the quality and it's quieter than I expected.

  9. #9
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    For rough service, it's tough to beat the loose bearing system used by Shimano. The ability to inspect/clean/re-grease the bearings over and over again is pretty economical and you mostly never need to replace anything.
    On the other hand, if you not INTO doing that, I'd go for White Industries.

  10. #10
    changingleaf
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    Chris King and DT Swiss 240's are way better than Ultegra, or Powerweigh and Novatec. If you want to spend less then the DT Swiss 350 is a great option as well. Onyx hubs are great too!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by changingleaf View Post
    Chris King and DT Swiss 240's are way better than Ultegra, or Powerweigh and Novatec. If you want to spend less then the DT Swiss 350 is a great option as well. Onyx hubs are great too!
    In what way are they 'better' besides maybe weight and not having to re-lube ball bearings?

    I will always choose Shimano over CK or DT for the following reasons:

    1) Steel or Ti freehub vs. Al freehub.

    2) Quiet vs. noisy freehub.

    3) Cost
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  12. #12
    changingleaf
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    I guess the phrase "way better" is a bit subjective, but engagement mechanism and bearings have in my experience shown to be much more reliable on King, DT Swiss and Onyx hubs. I do agree that a steel freehub will prevent casettes from digging in to the material especially when using a cassette without a carrier for the low gears. For very large riders I typically recommend the steel freehub upgrade for the King or DT Swiss hubs or another hub. I have seen many freehub failures on Shimano hubs and they are not particularly easy for the average rider to repair or maintain, but they can be replaced. I think shimano is doing better with their freehubs, but I haven't seen enough evidence that they are as good as the other hubs.

    The powerway and Novatec hubs can be fine for many riders, but regardless of how well they have worked for any one rider, on average the rear hub specifically is not as reliable as the others.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by changingleaf View Post
    The powerway and Novatec hubs can be fine for many riders, but regardless of how well they have worked for any one rider, on average the rear hub specifically is not as reliable as the others.
    Novatec is cheap (in this context) but you get what you pay for. I've used one for a year and noticed that it's louder than Mavic and Vuelta I have.

  14. #14
    The Slow One.
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    Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'm leaning towards what Mike suggested in White Industries or Dura Ace.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'm leaning towards what Mike suggested in White Industries or Dura Ace.
    I don't think you would go wrong with either of these. They both have a Ti carrier and are overall good quality. Cost is about the same.

    In the end, it's probably about whether you like a quiet discreet freehub, or one with a more pronounced coasting noise. DA is quiet, WI is noisier, but nowhere near the noisiest out there.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  16. #16
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I don't think you would go wrong with either of these. They both have a Ti carrier and are overall good quality. Cost is about the same.
    In the end, it's probably about whether you like a quiet discreet freehub, or one with a more pronounced coasting noise. DA is quiet, WI is noisier, but nowhere near the noisiest out there.
    Then there is the choice between cartridge bearings (White, DT, King) and the loose balls (ahh!) of the Shimano hubs. But the Shimano's cone adjustment system really is a work of art. What's not to like about the more recent no-tool finger adjustment system versus the cone wrench system of older Shimano hubs.

    But for me, and I have both systems, the choice between the two bearing systems is not a deciding factor. Tapping out and tapping in new cartridge bearing units takes about the same amount of time as servicing Shimano loose bearings. and cartridge bearing units can be opened up, cleaned out and re-lubed.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    Then there is the choice between cartridge bearings (White, DT, King) and the loose balls (ahh!) of the Shimano hubs. But the Shimano's cone adjustment system really is a work of art. What's not to like about the more recent no-tool finger adjustment system versus the cone wrench system of older Shimano hubs.
    You bet! Having done with trial and error adjustment of older Shimano hubs, Shimano's "digital adjustment" as they call it - digits = fingers - is a godsend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    But for me, and I have both systems, the choice between the two bearing systems is not a deciding factor. Tapping out and tapping in new cartridge bearing units takes about the same amount of time as servicing Shimano loose bearings. and cartridge bearing units can be opened up, cleaned out and re-lubed.
    This. There are some who claim cartridge bearings have less rolling resistance than loose balls. And then there are others on the other side who claim that cartridge bearings have more rolling resistance while cornering than loose balls.

    I've had both and can say that a good properly adjusted set of either of these roll quite well and won't affect anybody's stats while on the bike.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



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