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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdog9 View Post
    I want to know what I'm doing wrong to NOT notice the difference in comfort between 23s and 28s. I will probably switch to 24s or 25s when I run through my current stock of tires but that will take up to a couple years...

    I rode a bike over vacation that was meant to be an endurance frame... came with 28s on it. I did some rides with my own wheelset which had 23s and then also ran the 28s and could honestly not tell the difference one bit on some pretty bumpy roads. And to boot, overall the bike was no more comfortable than my usual ride which is "race geometry" etc.... at the end of the day there's a lot of marketing going on...
    You don't mention tire pressure. If the wider tires were at the same pressure as the narrower tires, then they would be LESS comfortable with worse traction. Rough guide is to drop 10 psi/0.6 bar for each tire size increase.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    i've been on 23s since i started riding again and won't be changing anytime soon.
    It's always great to see someone who can laugh in the face of facts.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    i've been on 23s since i started riding again and won't be changing anytime soon.
    Shame you didn't start sooner. You would have been using 19mm tires and been even faster (now that we've established narrow is better

  4. #29
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    I just mounted a new set of HED Ardennes+ wheels with 23mm tires on my relic of a 92 Merlin Extralight inflated to 70/80 and it has totally transformed the bike. Have always run 20mm tires and had planned to mount 25's but did not have chainstay clearance on the right side. It is hard to describe the difference but it is really something. Compliance is greatly improved, of course, but the bike still feels light and responsive and fast. Cornering really inspires confidence.

    I really didn't want to believe what some will call hype about wider wheels and lower pressures. I bought these wheels for my cross bike but decided to try them on the road bike first. They will be staying on the road bike and I'm building wheels with HED Belgian+ rims for the cross bike.

  5. #30
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    At 180 lbs, I've found the best combination is 23mm front and 25mm rear.

  6. #31
    bas
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fit4Life View Post
    At 180 lbs, I've found the best combination is 23mm front and 25mm rear.
    At 210 lbs, that's were I'm headed...

    and this just showed up in my utuber feed

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrHxQg1OW0A
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tire Size? 23/25/28mm?-mrpr3.jpg  
    Last edited by bas; 07-25-2017 at 08:54 PM.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    It's always great to see someone who can laugh in the face of facts.
    sorry, kerry. the facts are i like what i like. if you have facts that prove differently, please provide them.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Shame you didn't start sooner. You would have been using 19mm tires and been even faster (now that we've established narrow is better
    probably not. i've tried 20s (once) and realized 23s are for me.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    There are lots of people that ignore technology and/or realizations of what is actually better in some way. They either figure it out eventually or they don't. Doesn't really matter, they will still ride and be happy.
    and there are others that follow what is "best" for themselves without regard for the most advanced tech in a 100 year old sport in order to "ride and be happy."
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  10. #35
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    Depends what your goals are. Some info:

    - All other aspects being equal wider tires have less rolling resistance at the same PSI as narrower tires. However half the point of going wider is to run lower pressures for a more comfortable ride.

    - Those other aspects. Construction and tire compound matter just as much as size. A tire with a layer of armor/aramid won't be as supple, will be heavier, and have worse rolling resistance. A 32mm Clement Strada LGG pumped to 100psi will have worse rolling resistance than a 23mm Schwalbe Pro One at 85psi because rubber compounds matter.

    - Aero wheel, aero tires. If you are using deep sectioned carbon rims, then you'll want the tire to interface with the rim with as little overhang as possible. If your rims are 27mm at their widest point, and 25mm at the brake track, then your tire should also be 25mm wide, not 27mm.

    - Measured widths vary. My ENVE SES 5.6 Disc rims are 28mm and 28.75mm at their widest, closer to 26.75mm at the edge. At 100psi "25mm" Schwalbe Pro Ones actually measure 29mm on these rims while "25mm" Zipp Tangente Speed RT25s measure 26.75mm.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    There are lots of people that ignore technology and/or realizations of what is actually better in some way. They either figure it out eventually or they don't. Doesn't really matter, they will still ride and be happy.
    There are also people who still use a stove with a bellows and are happy too. :-) To each his or her own.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    It's always great to see someone who can laugh in the face of facts.
    3 for 3 today, Kerry! :-) I can only rep you once!
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fit4Life View Post
    At 180 lbs, I've found the best combination is 23mm front and 25mm rear.
    I'm right at 200 and that's the combo I run also, 80f/85r tubed (about 6psi less when running tubeless), I only miss the ability to rotate tires front to back.
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

  14. #39
    JSR
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    I'm running 32mm tires on my Domane. I inflate them to 60psi front, 65psi rear. I weigh 175lbs. I've ridden about 2,500 miles on them.

    Observation 1: They are more comfortable than 23 or 25 mm tires. Much more. Obviously, emphatically more. No doubt about it more.

    Observation 2: Rolling resistance is not greater. On yesterday's group ride we encountered several descents with long runouts that were faster than we could pedal. My speed was equivalent to that of the riders on 23s and 25s.

    Observation 3: I feel more confident in corners. I'm running Bontrager R2 tires, which are not high thread count, highly supple tires. Nonetheless, handling on mountain roads is very sure footed, which I attribute to the wide contact patch.

    Observation 4: Replacement 32mm tires are spendy and nice ones are hard to find. Prices can easily reach $90 to $100. 28s are more readily available - I think Conti GP 4K goes to 28, but not 32.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Fixed.

    I remember a couple of years ago, a delicious moment when I toasted a 30 something guy with $3,000 zip carbon wheels climbing this steep hill while I was on an entry level wheel set. He had a look on his face like "that old geezer passed me?!?!?!"

    You can't buy speed. It's all in the engine.
    Amen. The only thing I am willing to pay a little extra for at this point is more comfort. I am over everything else. Their are free/cheap ways to achieve most of it now days anyway.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    I'm running 32mm tires on my Domane. I inflate them to 60psi front, 65psi rear. I weigh 175lbs. I've ridden about 2,500 miles on them.

    Observation 1: They are more comfortable than 23 or 25 mm tires. Much more. Obviously, emphatically more. No doubt about it more.

    Observation 2: Rolling resistance is not greater. On yesterday's group ride we encountered several descents with long runouts that were faster than we could pedal. My speed was equivalent to that of the riders on 23s and 25s.

    Observation 3: I feel more confident in corners. I'm running Bontrager R2 tires, which are not high thread count, highly supple tires. Nonetheless, handling on mountain roads is very sure footed, which I attribute to the wide contact patch.

    Observation 4: Replacement 32mm tires are spendy and nice ones are hard to find. Prices can easily reach $90 to $100. 28s are more readily available - I think Conti GP 4K goes to 28, but not 32.
    Ah... here it is, the unaltered truth. Me likes...
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    Observation 1: They are more comfortable than 23 or 25 mm tires. Much more. Obviously, emphatically more. No doubt about it more.
    With you on all counts. I think my Domane (2013, Ultegra brakes) can't fit wider than 28mm, so that's what I use. But as I said before, I think it's psi that matters more than tire width in itself. I weigh 195 pounds bone dry, and I'm running 60/80 psi front/rear.

    I'm running Compass ultralights and latex tubes. The tires are not cheap, but the supple sidewalls are great. I immediately felt them to be an improvement over Vittoria Corsa G+. A bonus is that they are pretty light for their size: A 28mm tire came in at 217 grams.

    Regarding your Observation 4, Compass has a 32mm ultralight priced at $76.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    sorry, kerry. the facts are i like what i like. if you have facts that prove differently, please provide them.
    I obviously can't prove that you like something different from what you like. What I can prove is that 25 mm tires are more comfortable, last longer, have better traction, and no higher rolling resistance. You like "features" other than those. Have at it.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    I obviously can't prove that you like something different from what you like. What I can prove is that 25 mm tires are more comfortable, last longer, have better traction, and no higher rolling resistance. You like "features" other than those. Have at it.
    maybe it depends on the rim.

    i've tried wider tires and have always gone back to 23s. i'm happy and very comfortable with my choices.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    maybe it depends on the rim.

    i've tried wider tires and have always gone back to 23s. i'm happy and very comfortable with my choices.
    You've never said why you like them better. If you did it's surely likely that physics would easily prove your perceptions to be wrong. If you like them better 'just because' that's fine, but it's not proof of anything at all. Well...other than your ability to make a rational, fact based decision.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    maybe it depends on the rim...
    Yes, the rim width makes a big difference on the ultimate width of the tire and the many ride characteristics.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    You've never said why you like them better. If you did it's surely likely that physics would easily prove your perceptions to be wrong. If you like them better 'just because' that's fine, but it's not proof of anything at all. Well...other than your ability to make a rational, fact based decision.
    i ride steel too. and those frames aren't really "better" nor "faster" than carbon.

    sorry, i like what i like. 23s fit my rims well, and the soft sidewalls of the tires i use are plenty comfy.

    my apologies for not going along with the crowd and latest trends.

    thanks for the parting shot, though. i expect nothing less from you.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turner View Post
    Yes, the rim width makes a big difference on the ultimate width of the tire and the many ride characteristics.
    Hell, it depends on the tire model. 23mm Pro Ones, GP4K S IIs, Power Comps measure 26 on even fairly narrow rims. It would make more sense if blackfrancois referred to a specific tire that he liked, then we could get really critical of his choice.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceugene View Post
    ... then we could get really critical of his choice.
    no, that's ok. i'm critical enough about my own choices, which are mine alone.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    i ride steel too. and those frames aren't really "better" nor "faster" than carbon.

    sorry, i like what i like. 23s fit my rims well, and the soft sidewalls of the tires i use are plenty comfy.

    my apologies for not going along with the crowd and latest trends.

    thanks for the parting shot, though. i expect nothing less from you.
    Good to know I'm consistent.
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