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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    The course changes every year so speeds mean nothing really.
    I would say this shows a clear trend


    When did racers quit using 36 hole rims?-overall_speed_tour_de_france.gif

  2. #27
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    I remember back in 1978, a customer at the shop I worked at had a nice Italian road bike with 28/32 wheels, and the mechanics thought that he had too few spokes...
    I'm upping my standards;
    Up yours!

  3. #28
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    I don't know about the history of it all but I built a set of 32/32 Easton R90SL/Ultegra wheels yesterday, with Laser and D-Light spokes. Not only is it one of the prettiest wheel sets I've built, it's more than strong enough for a monster truck to use. Modern hubs have harder, stronger flanges, spokes are better, and rims are way stronger and stiffer than old ones were. When did racers quit using 36 hole rims?-img_0770.jpg

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I would say this shows a clear trend


    Click image for larger version. 

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    The trend that that shows is better paid, more cohesive, more professional teams racing in a more organized way, as much as anything else.

    The Ironman Kona record, which isolates speed/tech variables much better than TdF does, has been really stable since the Iron War of '89. And even if you're not into triathlon, the book "Iron War" is an awesome read.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    I don't know about the history of it all but I built a set of 32/32 Easton R90SL/Ultegra wheels yesterday, with Laser and D-Light spokes. Not only is it one of the prettiest wheel sets I've built, it's more than strong enough for a monster truck to use. Modern hubs have harder, stronger flanges, spokes are better, and rims are way stronger and stiffer than old ones were. Click image for larger version. 

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    Proof also that 32 spoke wheels can be as sexy and pick up as many chicks as a 16 spoke radial wheel can.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    I don't know about the history of it all but I built a set of 32/32 Easton R90SL/Ultegra wheels yesterday, with Laser and D-Light spokes. Not only is it one of the prettiest wheel sets I've built, it's more than strong enough for a monster truck to use. Modern hubs have harder, stronger flanges, spokes are better, and rims are way stronger and stiffer than old ones were. Click image for larger version. 

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    I have a similar set I used for gravel, trails and general beating. Different components, but same idea.

    When ever possible I go to some real remote areas of Quebec and ride all day through the woods and gravel roads. We're talking the middle of nowhere. "could I get away less spokes" most definitely isn't something I worry about in the middle of EBF and it's just great having wheels like that. And the few times I've taken them on a fast group ride I can't say I felt any different that with the 20/24 set I usually use.

    I have 5 sets of wheels and if I was forced to keep only one it would be those.....I can do anything on them without fear.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    .... Not only is it one of the prettiest wheel sets I've built, .... Click image for larger version. 

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    Well, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For myself, I just can't see black aero rims and gumwall tires being a match.
    I'm upping my standards;
    Up yours!

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I would say this shows a clear trend
    Yes, but here's the rub. When you plot distance running speeds, you see the same trend. Ignoring various doping scandals, it's fair to factor out advanced training, recovery, nutrition, and psychology techniques. When you do that, you won't see much that is attributable to equipment. Bicycle Quarterly did a good article on this.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Well, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For myself, I just can't see black aero rims and gumwall tires being a match.
    While unorthodox to say the least, I kind of like the look. The gumwalls contrast nicely with the black rims, spokes and hubs.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    While unorthodox to say the least, I kind of like the look. The gumwalls contrast nicely with the black rims, spokes and hubs.
    I like it too. As long as folks like me feel left stuck with the market's offering of black everything it is nice to have some kind of classic option to throw into the mix. I have a black carbon fiber bike which to me looks like a dull, plastic machine that I put a Brooks Cambium saddle and cotton tape on. It's a fun bike that I love to ride no matter what but gussying it up that way just made it nicer to look at to me. Another reason to smile I guess.
    Interwebs bumpersticker goes here

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    You mean they didn't have these in the Anquetil, Merckx, Simpson days back in the 60s?
    Oh, no, they had some of the same drugs then, but they didn't have the science to know when to use the drugs in training, how often to use the drugs in training, and the drugs weren't as consistent...

    Hit me with a yellow card, I just took this into the doping forum.

    I like my factory Mavic Askim race wheels... they've been babied at 20/28 or something, but they've got close to 10k miles on them with not much more than turning a nipple once or twice.

    The 32h set I built with some of your input has held up well considering they're on my cross bike and they hit train tracks at 25mph... and get ridden on single track... and I'm not a pro-wheel builder.

    I think I'm in it to build 2 wheel sets next winter, and then I can consider myself a true wheel building amateur.

    I'll reduce the spoke count on 1 set, but only because I have a set of hubs I tore down.
    The internet is a little like a bar, a wonderful place where we can bullsh(t our past, but it also, is full of reasonably reliable sources of information to be used as ammo to call "bullish)t."

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