Why different spokes on NDS?

[jnbrown]

I have read about using lighter gauge spokes such as DT Revs or Sapim Lasers on the NDS and normal DB14 on the DS. The theory being that since the NDS is at a lower tension the lighter gauge spokes are less likely to go slack. In reality does this build a better wheel or would DB14 on both sides be just as good or better? Also since the NDS is at a lower tension does this reduce or eliminate the problem of spoke wind up when tensioning Revs or Lasers? Is there any reason to think either Sapim or DT are better than the other?

[Kerry Irons]

I have read about using lighter gauge spokes such as DT Revs or Sapim Lasers on the NDS and normal DB14 on the DS. The theory being that since the NDS is at a lower tension the lighter gauge spokes are less likely to go slack. In reality does this build a better wheel or would DB14 on both sides be just as good or better? Also since the NDS is at a lower tension does this reduce or eliminate the problem of spoke wind up when tensioning Revs or Lasers? Is there any reason to think either Sapim or DT are better than the other?

You may get several theoretical explanations as to why it is better. Just like the "heads-in/heads-out" discussions. I have never seen any data to suggest that these theoretical arguments make a difference in real life.

[steel515]

[QUOTE=jnbrown;4288289]I have read about using lighter gauge spokes such as DT Revs or Sapim Lasers on the NDS and normal DB14 on the DS. The theory being that since the NDS is at a lower tension the lighter gauge spokes are less likely to go slack. In reality does this build a better wheel or would DB14 on both sides be just as good or better? "


I think DB14 on both sides would be better. I am not a wheelbuilder but I have built wheels like this. Only if you are like <150lbs would Irecommend it. Otherwise these are like a hillclimb only wheel. I used wheelsmith xl15 on ND, more heavily butted than these 2. I was ~170 pounds then. Some things give benefits in theory but not much in reality.

[dcgriz]

I have read about using lighter gauge spokes such as DT Revs or Sapim Lasers on the NDS and normal DB14 on the DS. The theory being that since the NDS is at a lower tension the lighter gauge spokes are less likely to go slack. In reality does this build a better wheel or would DB14 on both sides be just as good or better?

The proponents of the lighter gauge NDS spokes offer the argument of higher elasticity and the secondary effect of lesser weight. I personally build mine with the same 14/15 double butted (not straight gauge) spokes on both sides but pay particular attention to the hub geometry, rim selection, lacing pattern and number of spokes.

QUOTE=jnbrown;4288289]Also since the NDS is at a lower tension does this reduce or eliminate the problem of spoke wind up when tensioning Revs or Lasers?[/QUOTE]
Wind up exists at 50 kgf as it does at 125kgf, at different magnitude maybe but still able of being there. Lasers will be prone to easier wind up than Race because of their crossection.

QUOTE=jnbrown;4288289]Is there any reason to think either Sapim or DT are better than the other?[/QUOTE]
I don't believe so although I tend to favor Sapim.

[ergott]

The left flange does a much better job of supporting the rim so a heavier gauge spoke usually isn't necessary. The right side has a comparatively narrow bracing angle and a heavier gauge spoke is necessary to support the rim. I have used heavy gauge spoke on both sides if I think it's the right thing to do for the person riding the wheels.

[jnbrown]

The left flange does a much better job of supporting the rim so a heavier gauge spoke usually isn't necessary. The right side has a comparatively narrow bracing angle and a heavier gauge spoke is necessary to support the rim. I have used heavy gauge spoke on both sides if I think it's the right thing to do for the person riding the wheels.

So the only reason to use a lighter gauge spoke on the NDS is to save a few grams?

[Jay Strongbow]

So the only reason to use a lighter gauge spoke on the NDS is to save a few grams?

That's not what he said. He's saying, I believe, use the best spoke for the job and the jobs are different so the spokes are different.
He's not useing a lighter spoke on the NDS. He's using a heavier spoke of the DS. yeah I know, same thing, but if you look at it that way maybe you'll get it.

[dcgriz]

So the only reason to use a lighter gauge spoke on the NDS is to save a few grams?

No, the inherited elasticity of the lighter gauge spoke compared to that of the heavier gauge spoke is the prevalent reason. Weight reduction is a secondary effect as I mentioned on my earlier post.

To futher explain; the Laser spokes at 1.5mm are capable of stretching more than the 2.0mm 14ga spokes. This means that the NDS Lasers could withstand more radial deflection before they start loosing tension which in turn could cause the DS spokes to loose tension. However since there is no free lunch in anything "wheel" related, the wheel radial stiffness will be lessened when Lace and 14ga spokes are used vs. 14ga all aroundusing the example you brought up. The challenge is to determine, based on rider weight and intended use of wheels, at which point the benefit of increasing deflection using the lighter spokes is surpassed by the detriment of lowering the whell radial stifness. Personally, I dont know where that threshold exactly is because of all the variables affecting it. For my wheels, I tend to use double butted 14/15ga spokes all around and I pay particular attention to rim and hub selection. It works for me.

[rruff]

The reason for using lighter NDS or heavier DS spokes is if the tension ratio is excessive... like <45%. It definitely makes the NDS spokes less likely to go slack from radial loads... which is the typical problem with wheels that are at their load capacity. Whether you *need* it or not depends on the rim stiffness and max tension, the build details, and who you are.

Usually I'm using the lightest spokes all around and heavier DS spokes if necessary...which is rarely.

You shouldn't have a problem with NDS windup, but it's a very good idea to use a good lube and mark the spokes so you know where the neutral point is.

Any spokes from the "Big 3" are good.