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  1. #1
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Why do spoke length calculators not ask about nipple length?

    I'm guessing that nipple length makes a difference, doesn't it not?

  2. #2
    wheelbuilder
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    Goal for correct spoke length is between the bottom of the slots and flush with the head. The length of the nipple doesn't factor in.

    There are differences in the heights of nipple heads above the rim, but they are small.

  3. #3
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    The spoke needs to end at the bottom of the nipple, regardless of how long it extends in the other direction.
    Get a better saddle: www.kontactbike.com

  4. #4
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    The first spoke calculator I used, say 10 years ago, was the DT Swiss. And it had the nipple length as an entry. And the spoke length would reduce if a longer nipple was punched in.

    In my lack of experience at the time this made sense.

    Later I learned that this was specific to DT Swiss nipples and not applicable to others.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
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    There's sometimes a buggy.
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    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
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  5. #5
    wheelbuilder
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    Some longer nipples just have the flats (where the wrench goes) lower down for rims with a thick bed.

    DT does make a longer nipple that has longer threads. It makes no sense since if the spokes are short, you will have none of the spoke threads in the head. That makes them likely to fail. Better to fix wheel with correct spoke length.

  6. #6
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    Dt nipples are also intolerant of spokes that may be slightly long. Another reason I use Sapim nipples.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waspinator View Post
    I'm guessing that nipple length makes a difference, doesn't it not?
    Because it is largely irrelevant. ERD is calculated by subtracting nipple length. You enter ERD and hub dimensions to calculate spoke lengths.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Because it is largely irrelevant. ERD is calculated by subtracting nipple length. You enter ERD and hub dimensions to calculate spoke lengths.
    ????

    Perhaps you'd like to rephrase that.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  9. #9
    wheelbuilder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch562 View Post
    Dt nipples are also intolerant of spokes that may be slightly long. Another reason I use Sapim nipples.
    Sapim threads are about 8mm so yes you have more room for adjustment. DT are 9-10mm so once the spoke is flush with the head you are maxed out.

    I really think nipples don't need anymore than 5-6mm of threading. They can still be 12-14mm long for the wrench flats to be accessible. Any more than 5mm of thread isn't really adding to the strength of the system. The top few threads at the head provide all the strength since the nipple head is in compression.

    Fewer threads would allow for more margin of error and better for road/trail side repairs when a rim is damaged. As it is, ERDs are about 590mm for road. ERD has to be accurate to within 1mm for consistent spoke lengths so you are dealing with very high tolerances. Add to that rim compression (tubeless rims in particular) and it's very easy to have spokes come out too long or too short. If threads were only 5mm and the spoke threads are 10mm (as they are now) you would have much more room to compensate for the unexpected.

    Heck even calculating spoke lengths for large flange hubs and high crossing changes the result. I have to add about 1mm to the results in any calc when building up a Chris King R45 rear hub (left side). If it's something like 28 3X the spokes will be too short coming from the calc.

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    ????

    Perhaps you'd like to rephrase that.
    Perhaps I oversimplified what I said. I am referring to How To Measure ERD Method 1 on Mike T.'s page:

    Measuring ERD

    He measures between where the spokes meet the nipples at each end. Then he adds the length of each nipple up to the slot. So on 12mm nipples, you add 11mm at each end to get the spoke ends ideally where you want them.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



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