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  1. #1
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    Zipp 404 or EDGE 45's? - Both Tubular

    Which would you choose, and why?

    Zipp 404 Tubular or EDGE 45 Tubular? Would be used for hard group rides and racing. I weigh 180 lbs.

    Thanks for the feedback. Interested to hear your thoughts.

  2. #2
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    Enve 1.45t would be a much better choice. First off, the hubs that come stock on the 404 is not the best out there. Poor construction and small axles make for poor power transfer. Also, the lacing on the 404's is something to be wary of. Power is transferred NDS which makes for alot of parts and pieces to lose watts throughout.
    There are a few obvious choices to choose the 1.45s over the 404s as well. First, molding vs drilling methods. Enve molds, Zipp drills. Something makes me skeptical about drilling through carbon. Secondly, you may want to consider weight. The Enve is 110 grams lighter per rim.

  3. #3
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    definitely EDGE 45 tubular

    my favourite wheelset so far.

    comparing 4 other carbon wheelset that i have, namely EDGE 65 tub, LW Std 3 tub, Hyperon Ultra Two (clincher), my vote is definitely the EDGE 45 tub.

    my personal feel is that its acceleration, stifness is on par with the LW Std, at half the cost. Hubs are bullet proof (DT 240s).

    as for its weight, i would say a difference of approx 50grams comparing with the LW Std.

    cheers!

  4. #4
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    Edges are lighter and stiffer, 404's are deeper and perform much better at a variety of yaw angles. The aerodynamic properties of the 45's do not extend much beyond the fact that they are 45mm deep. The only real complaints you'll find of Edge wheels are their relatively poor aerodynamic performance relative to their competitors at similar rim depths, which they are currently trying to address via their new partnership with Smart Aero. I have some 25's built as climbing wheels and they are fantastic for that, but if you're looking for pure speed I'd go for the 404's as they are a much faster wheel in race conditions.

  5. #5
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    Maverick,

    Can you tell us more about how the Edge wheels compare to the LW? Durability, stiffness, comfort, etc. I was under the impression that the LW where the best hands-down. Thanks.

  6. #6
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    @iridepinarello

    sorry to hijack your post, a little off topic

    @HazemBata

    LW Std Tub are among the best wheelset out there. it's stiff, durable, accelerates well.
    the EDGE 1.45 has all the above mentioned charateristics yet at half the cost of LW Std. Also note the customization options available for EDGE 1.45 (hubset etc).
    As for the weight, LW Std tubulars weigh approx 1120 grams, and with a lighter hubset (e.g Tune) the EDGE 1.45 can be lowered to 1070 grams or less.
    the reason why it's my favourite is due to the cost factor when comparing both wheelsets.

    Apart from the rims depth, I would say durability of the hubset is one factor to consider when comparing wheelsets. Both LW Std (*rear hubs only) and EDGE uses the DT Swiss 240s.

    cheers!

    PS: attached are pics of my wheelset(s) minus the Hyperon clinchers that arrived 3 days ago.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Zipp 404 or EDGE 45's? - Both Tubular-dsc00121.jpg  
    Last edited by Maverick; 10-17-2010 at 07:21 AM.

  7. #7
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    Nice wheelset collection.

  8. #8
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    Something you might want to consider - the mavic cosmic ultimate. Way lighter, rides awesome and with the MP3 program you can crush on those things all the time and not worry - unlike Zipp and edge which will set you back to get repaired. I weigh 190 and these wheels are way stiffer than Zipp as I ride 303 and 404s.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick
    @iridepinarello

    sorry to hijack your post, a little off topic

    @HazemBata

    LW Std Tub are among the best wheelset out there. it's stiff, durable, accelerates well.
    the EDGE 1.45 has all the above mentioned charateristics yet at half the cost of LW Std. Also note the customization options available for EDGE 1.45 (hubset etc).
    As for the weight, LW Std tubulars weigh approx 1120 grams, and with a lighter hubset (e.g Tune) the EDGE 1.45 can be lowered to 1070 grams or less.
    the reason why it's my favourite is due to the cost factor when comparing both wheelsets.

    Apart from the rims depth, I would say durability of the hubset is one factor to consider when comparing wheelsets. Both LW Std (*rear hubs only) and EDGE uses the DT Swiss 240s.

    cheers!

    PS: attached are pics of my wheelset(s) minus the Hyperon clinchers that arrived 3 days ago.
    Wow, that is a nice collection.

    I hear good things about the Hyperon Clinchers but why did you chose them over some Envy? I think you can build them up to about the same weight. If you don't mind me asking what is your weight? Any flex issues with any of those wheels?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronderman
    Something you might want to consider - the mavic cosmic ultimate. Way lighter, rides awesome and with the MP3 program you can crush on those things all the time and not worry - unlike Zipp and edge which will set you back to get repaired. I weigh 190 and these wheels are way stiffer than Zipp as I ride 303 and 404s.
    Mavic CCUs are nice, but I feel that the inherent design flaws make the MP3 program necessary. Given the price of Edge vs. Mavic, there isn't an MP3 program BUT what you saved on the Edge wheels could replace a broken wheel.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti
    Wow, that is a nice collection.

    I hear good things about the Hyperon Clinchers but why did you chose them over some Envy? I think you can build them up to about the same weight. If you don't mind me asking what is your weight? Any flex issues with any of those wheels?
    well, here's my first impression on the Hyperon Ultra Two Clincher .
    it doesn't feel as lively and responsive as the EDGE 1.45.
    doesn't "hold speed" as well as the EDGE - Hyperon's shallow profile vs EDGE's 45mm depth.
    additionally, the Hyperons are approx 200grams heavier than the EDGE, add on clinchers vs tubulars.
    (note Hyperon Clinchers are 1320 grams without the rim tapes)
    Not sure what you meant by "I think you can build them up to about the same weight"?

    zero flex issues with any of the wheelsets above, weight 130lbs

    cheers!
    Last edited by Maverick; 10-17-2010 at 09:08 AM.

  12. #12
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    EDGE ftw

    no doubt.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick
    well, here's my first impression on the Hyperon Ultra Two Clincher .
    it doesn't feel as lively and responsive as the EDGE 1.45.
    doesn't "hold speed" as well as the EDGE - Hyperon's shallow profile vs EDGE's 45mm depth.
    additionally, the Hyperons are approx 200grams heavier than the EDGE, add on clinchers vs tubulars.
    (note Hyperon Clinchers are 1320 grams without the rim tapes)
    Not sure what you meant by "I think you can build them up to about the same weight"?

    zero flex issues with any of the wheelsets above, weight 130lbs

    cheers!
    130? Ouch. Lucky guy.

    My reference on the build was that I think you can build the Edge 45 clinchers to about 1350g, or less depending on the hubs. I wondered why you chose the hyperon's over a pair of Edge 45's? I would assume the lower profile of the Hyperon's would be a benefit on a windy day.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti
    130? Ouch. Lucky guy.

    My reference on the build was that I think you can build the Edge 45 clinchers to about 1350g, or less depending on the hubs. I wondered why you chose the hyperon's over a pair of Edge 45's? I would assume the lower profile of the Hyperon's would be a benefit on a windy day.
    You could easily do a sub-1200 gram wheelset if you laced the 45c to the ELF/ORC hubs via Cxrays. At a 20/24 count you would be looking at 1180 grams

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick
    @iridepinarello

    sorry to hijack your post, a little off topic

    @HazemBata

    LW Std Tub are among the best wheelset out there. it's stiff, durable, accelerates well.
    the EDGE 1.45 has all the above mentioned charateristics yet at half the cost of LW Std. Also note the customization options available for EDGE 1.45 (hubset etc).
    As for the weight, LW Std tubulars weigh approx 1120 grams, and with a lighter hubset (e.g Tune) the EDGE 1.45 can be lowered to 1070 grams or less.
    the reason why it's my favourite is due to the cost factor when comparing both wheelsets.

    Apart from the rims depth, I would say durability of the hubset is one factor to consider when comparing wheelsets. Both LW Std (*rear hubs only) and EDGE uses the DT Swiss 240s.

    cheers!

    PS: attached are pics of my wheelset(s) minus the Hyperon clinchers that arrived 3 days ago.

    That's just awesome! (the pic of all the wheels)

  16. #16
    Cpark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti
    130? Ouch. Lucky guy.

    My reference on the build was that I think you can build the Edge 45 clinchers to about 1350g, or less depending on the hubs. I wondered why you chose the hyperon's over a pair of Edge 45's? I would assume the lower profile of the Hyperon's would be a benefit on a windy day.
    You are right on the money on the weight.
    I have a set of Edge 45 Clinchers (20/24 - CX-Rays) on Alchemy hubs, and it weighs around 1290 grams. My guess is the tubular set will weigh around 1150 grams.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Cyclery
    You could easily do a sub-1200 gram wheelset if you laced the 45c to the ELF/ORC hubs via Cxrays. At a 20/24 count you would be looking at 1180 grams
    Even when the Edge 45 clinchers were coming in at 380g, a set like that would have been 1270g. Now that they are 440g, you are looking at 1390g.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Cyclery
    First off, the hubs that come stock on the 404 is not the best out there. Poor construction and small axles make for poor power transfer.
    Front and rear axles are both 17mm.... that is not small. The 6803 bearings could be larger. The torque stiffness is low, but that is mainly a concern for very large riders who mash steep grades.

  18. #18
    Cpark
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    Quote Originally Posted by rruff
    Even when the Edge 45 clinchers were coming in at 380g, a set like that would have been 1270g. Now that they are 440g, you are looking at 1390g.



    Front and rear axles are both 17mm.... that is not small. The 6803 bearings could be larger. The torque stiffness is low, but that is mainly a concern for very large riders who mash steep grades.

    Is there a reason why the weight of the rim went from 380 to 440?

  19. #19
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    Don't overlook hub selection ...

    Something to consider, that I was not previously aware of ... the popular DT Swiss 240 series hubs might tend toward being side-to-side "flexy", because the spacing between flanges is less than many other hubs.

    28 hub reviews:
    http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/view...7123ff960b4839

    Sighting down the length of the bike, think of the hub-spoke-rim system as a triangle, whose base (hub) is very narrow ... not as rigid as a triangle with a wide base.

    The Alchemy hubs are among the widest flange separation, are pretty light, but $ pricey. They do seem to be well-regarded "boutique" hubs, and I don't have knowledge or experience to comment on their reliability or maintainability ... but Alchemy would be on my short list.

    The White Industries hubs have almost as wide flange separation, are somewhat heavier, and have excellent track record for reliability and maintainability. They, too, would be on my short list.

    The wheelbuilder pros on this forum, could provide some more knowledgeable comments.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpark
    Is there a reason why the weight of the rim went from 380 to 440?
    I think they had durability issues on some of them... basically it was too light for a 45mm clincher.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick
    well, here's my first impression on the Hyperon Ultra Two Clincher .
    it doesn't feel as lively and responsive as the EDGE 1.45.
    doesn't "hold speed" as well as the EDGE - Hyperon's shallow profile vs EDGE's 45mm depth.
    additionally, the Hyperons are approx 200grams heavier than the EDGE, add on clinchers vs tubulars.
    (note Hyperon Clinchers are 1320 grams without the rim tapes)
    Not sure what you meant by "I think you can build them up to about the same weight"?

    zero flex issues with any of the wheelsets above, weight 130lbs

    cheers!
    I'm 185lbs and flex issues do start to occur up at this end. I can't think of too many highend wheelsets that would have flex issues at 130 lbs. I've had Hyperons, Bora Ultras, Edge 45, Reynolds DV46, Lightweights Std Gen ii and Mavic CCUs. The Lightweights and CCUs were only ones that absolutely never flexed, but they definitely made for a rougher ride. Just a thought. I love the Edge 45 clinchers for all around everyday riding, but I would use the Lightweights or Mavics on race day if possible. Nice set of wheels btw.

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