• 07-31-2015
    eugenetsang
    so yes. Sleep on it. Figure out what your options are and go on from there.

    DiamondBack is a good company. Especially with their Podium (road bike) stuff. Just a thought.. Since its probably easier for you to test ride it.
  • 07-31-2015
    PJ352
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wyldfyre911 View Post
    The hardest part of trying to get these specific bikes is the fact that I have no way to test ride any of them. There isnt a single Wilier dealer in my state :(
    Should I rule out the flat bar Interval Elite?

    Maybe I'm just 'particular', but IME I've NOT liked more bikes I've test ridden than I liked, so I suggest crossing any that can't be ridden off your list.

    With or without experience, you'll like riding some bikes more than others, for whatever reason. And this points up the importance of working with a reputable LBS. They listen to you like we are, guide you to some good choices (based on your input), fit you and send you off on test rides.

    Just make sure those test rides are out on the roads, and of some duration. Ideally, test ride on roads you'll ride. Then you'll know if gearing has to be changed to better suite your fitness/ terrain.

    Lastly, don't fret over brands or some level of component. There are a bunch of quality bikes out there.. comparably priced. Just remember, a LBS's service/ support is worth a fair amount, with post purchase tweaks to fit, tuneups, discounts on accessories (helmets, pedals, shoes...) so, something to keep in mind.
  • 07-31-2015
    Shuffleman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wyldfyre911 View Post
    Thanks for the Input Shuffle! I would like the GTS though Im afraid its going to be really stiff and tough for me to get used to. The reason the DB flat bar was in there. Though if what I am reading is true I should just go for the drop bar and suck it up because Ill be going to that eventually anyway.


    The other 2 I was considering from DB was the
    Century 3 or Century 5
    So... thats the $800 question...

    Do I go with the $1800 GTS or
    The Century 3/5 for 1k/1.4k respectively...
    Is it worth the extra 8/400?

    And secondly I guess is the brands that I am looking at decent?
    I couldn't find a list of the different brands ranked out from highest quality to lowest.

    :mad2:

    Lots to handle there. I would not go with the drop bar if you have any intention of riding for long periods of time.
    As a new rider who really does not know what type of riding they will like or style of bike they prefer, I would highly recommend the Century 3 over the Century 5 if you choose to go with DB.
    If you choose to go with Wilier, than I would go with the Izoard XP 105.
    My main choice would be the Izoard if you can get that with your discount. Make sure that you check on your sizing before ordering. I would think that a L would be fine for you as you are 6' tall. I am 6'02 and was sized by a LBS here for the XL.
    Once you decide between the Wilier and the DB I would recommend going to a LBS and introducing yourself. Tell them what you are buying and why. Pay them $50-$75 for a fitting up front so that they know you are serious. They should check the geometry chart out and advise the size and then when you get the bike take it to them for the final fitting. It will be money very well spent.
  • 07-31-2015
    PBL450
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shuffleman View Post
    Lots to handle there. I would not go with the drop bar if you have any intention of riding for long periods of time.
    As a new rider who really does not know what type of riding they will like or style of bike they prefer, I would highly recommend the Century 3 over the Century 5 if you choose to go with DB.
    If you choose to go with Wilier, than I would go with the Izoard XP 105.
    My main choice would be the Izoard if you can get that with your discount. Make sure that you check on your sizing before ordering. I would think that a L would be fine for you as you are 6' tall. I am 6'02 and was sized by a LBS here for the XL.
    Once you decide between the Wilier and the DB I would recommend going to a LBS and introducing yourself. Tell them what you are buying and why. Pay them $50-$75 for a fitting up front so that they know you are serious. They should check the geometry chart out and advise the size and then when you get the bike take it to them for the final fitting. It will be money very well spent.

    ^^^This. Shuffleman may have made a typo though? I think, and maybe I'm wrong, he meant go WITH the drop bar bike? Flat bar gives you less options for hand positions which matters a lot on long rides. Plus, the drops are a great place to be in a head wind! Especially on your aggressive geo bike with your flexible self. If you go to a good LBS and tell them about this discount and be clear that you want a fit, maybe some gear, assembly... They will be cool. And you will need them.

    "I would not go with the drop bar if you have any intention of riding for long periods of time."


  • 07-31-2015
    professionalsql
    I have to agree with PBL on this - if you're going to be riding for longer periods of time (several hours), then you will want the drop bar bike for the flexibility in position. Flat bars are great - even for hours - if you're going to be puttering. If you want to cover ground, then you'll want the ability to shift positions to match the terrain, and the best bike for that is a "road bike" (i.e., drop bar).
  • 07-31-2015
    PBL450
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PJ352 View Post
    Maybe I'm just 'particular', but IME I've NOT liked more bikes I've test ridden than I liked, so I suggest crossing any that can't be ridden off your list.

    With or without experience, you'll like riding some bikes more than others, for whatever reason. And this points up the importance of working with a reputable LBS. They listen to you like we are, guide you to some good choices (based on your input), fit you and send you off on test rides.

    Just make sure those test rides are out on the roads, and of some duration. Ideally, test ride on roads you'll ride. Then you'll know if gearing has to be changed to better suite your fitness/ terrain.

    Lastly, don't fret over brands or some level of component. There are a bunch of quality bikes out there.. comparably priced. Just remember, a LBS's service/ support is worth a fair amount, with post purchase tweaks to fit, tuneups, discounts on accessories (helmets, pedals, shoes...) so, something to keep in mind.

    ^^^Good stuff here too! Up front savings may not be worth it compared to the long term return of buying local.

    i struggle to understand the importance of the test ride... I'm not contradicting it, people say it over and over so it must be true. I bought two bikes on CL and they both fit great with a pro fitting. I mean, can't most bikes be set up to fit most any rider that is the the right size range overall? Do frames really perform drastically differently? That's what your buying when you say a bike right? Can a newb even tell?
  • 07-31-2015
    PJ352
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    i struggle to understand the importance of the test ride... I'm not contradicting it, people say it over and over so it must be true.

    Maybe it's true for those saying it (like me) and not true for you. Everyone's different.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    I bought two bikes on CL and they both fit great with a pro fitting. I mean, can't most bikes be set up to fit most any rider that is the the right size range overall?

    If a bike is sized correctly for a given rider, yes, the fitting will go well. Depending on how far off sizing strays, the fitting may or may not go so well. Stray far enough on sizing, and the fitter will get into *making* the bike fit, but f/r weight distribution may well be off, and that can adversely affect handling.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Do frames really perform drastically differently? That's what your buying when you say a bike right? Can a newb even tell?

    Go ride a touring bike and a race bike back to back, and let us know if you could tell a difference in handling. They're both bikes, but pretty different types.

    And yes, I understand that my example illustrates bigger differences in geo than the OP is contemplating, but there's more to this than frames and geo... bar shape, hood ergonomics/ position, the trail on a bike (and more) enters into the equation.

    You never really know until you test ride a bike, IMHO.
  • 08-01-2015
    Shuffleman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    ^^^This. Shuffleman may have made a typo though? I think, and maybe I'm wrong, he meant go WITH the drop bar bike? Flat bar gives you less options for hand positions which matters a lot on long rides. Plus, the drops are a great place to be in a head wind! Especially on your aggressive geo bike with your flexible self. If you go to a good LBS and tell them about this discount and be clear that you want a fit, maybe some gear, assembly... They will be cool. And you will need them.

    "I would not go with the drop bar if you have any intention of riding for long periods of time."



    It was such a bad typo that I had to read your quote in bold 3 times to even see it. I must be getting old. Thanks for pointing that out as I would hate for the op to have bought a flat bar bike.
    OP, there is no such thing as a list of quality bike rankings. Most name brand bikes are very good. The components are typically similar in different bikes that are in the same price range. A bike is a highly subjective thing. I love Italian and German bikes. Others love Trek, Giant, DB, Cube and etc. Wilier and DB are just as good as any brand out there. Personally, I love Wilier and would buy that. DB is just as good but it is just my preference.
  • 08-01-2015
    PBL450
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PJ352 View Post
    Maybe it's true for those saying it (like me) and not true for you. Everyone's different.


    If a bike is sized correctly for a given rider, yes, the fitting will go well. Depending on how far off sizing strays, the fitting may or may not go so well. Stray far enough on sizing, and the fitter will get into *making* the bike fit, but f/r weight distribution may well be off, and that can adversely affect handling.


    Go ride a touring bike and a race bike back to back, and let us know if you could tell a difference in handling. They're both bikes, but pretty different types.

    And yes, I understand that my example illustrates bigger differences in geo than the OP is contemplating, but there's more to this than frames and geo... bar shape, hood ergonomics/ position, the trail on a bike (and more) enters into the equation.

    You never really know until you test ride a bike, IMHO.

    All good points. I just wonder... Partly because, as I learn more and more about the importance of fit, I have come to think the quicky fit done to the test bike for your test ride could have a huge impact on your perception of that bike? 1cm on the bar stem, 3mm on the seat tube, different pedals... What do I know, though, I've never done it. The bike that's eye-balled closest to accurate wins?

    I have 2 bikes. A CAAD 8 and a Scott Foil. They are VERY different! So I completely get your points and agree. That said, if I tested them together the CAAD 8 is very user friendly and comfy compared to the Foil. The Foil is a little twitchy. But once I got used to the Scott, it is a wonderful bike and something I look forward to riding every single day. i like the CAAD 8, but the Foil has a whole different feel. It demands more of me but delivers more to me. I'm not saying I'm faster on one or the other, it's darn close, but I'm sure glad I spent the time getting broken in on that Foil, it's a wonderful bike. Not sure I'd think that on a test ride. But I'm a new rider. That's part of my point. What do I know?
  • 08-01-2015
    PJ352
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    What do I know?

    You know what you like, and since it's your money and they're your bikes, that counts for a lot.

    But beyond that, you make good points as well. The thing about test rides is... we do the best we can with what we've got to work with, then go with our gut instinct. As with most things, it may take a year (or at least several hours in the saddle) to determine if the right decision was made.

    As to the "quickie fit", that's part of weeding out the less than stellar LBS's. The better shops understand the importance of fit and longer test rides, so take longer to fit pre-test ride and encourage putting the bike(s) through their paces - out on the roads.

    There are no guarantees, but IMO this method betters the odds that a noob will make a good decision based on their needs and budget.
  • 08-02-2015
    PBL450
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PJ352 View Post
    As to the "quickie fit", that's part of weeding out the less than stellar LBS's. The better shops understand the importance of fit and longer test rides, so take longer to fit pre-test ride and encourage putting the bike(s) through their paces - out on the roads.

    There are no guarantees, but IMO this method betters the odds that a noob will make a good decision based on their needs and budget.

    Great points!! And a compelling argument for the OP to scuttle his discounts and go with brick and mortar!
  • 08-04-2015
    Wyldfyre911
    Suppose its like buying a car then... all subjective like you said. One of the LBS had recommended a $1600 Trek bike though I thought with the discount that the DB or the Wilier would still be a higher component fit
  • 08-04-2015
    Shuffleman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wyldfyre911 View Post
    Suppose its like buying a car then... all subjective like you said. One of the LBS had recommended a $1600 Trek bike though I thought with the discount that the DB or the Wilier would still be a higher component fit

    It is actually very different than buying a car. For the most part when you buy a car, they are all different. Chrysler cars have Chrysler engines. Honda has Honda engines. If you look at reliability reports Chrysler is at or near the bottom, while Honda is at or near the top. When it comes to bikes, you have mfrgs that make the frames. The frames are unique to the mfgr. The components are not and the same goes for the groupsets. When it comes to groupsets, you have 3 primary ones, Shimano, SRAMM and Campagnolo. I can take a Wilier Frame and a Trek frame and build them out with the exact same components. Cars are not done the same way. Thus, you have differences in reliability and quality of build. With a bike the variance in the quality of the build is limited to the frame only as they all have the same groupsets. We could spend all day going over components but for the most part bike companies use the products of others. For example on the Wilier GTS, it comes with a Sella Italia seat. Trek comes with a Bontrager seat. Another company may come with a Fizik seat. This is what makes bike buying more subjective. There is no Consumer Reports on the reliability of bikes like there is for cars because they are all virtually the same as far as reliability goes. Some companies may offer better support of have a larger dealer network. There are a lot of bikes that we could have recommended to you but you stated that you had a huge discount on DB or Wilier thus we stuck to those brands. If I had a 30% or 40% discount for those brands, I guarantee you that I would be riding one of them right now. If there are ten bikes from good mfgrs all equipped with Ultegra and similar specs they will be priced relatively the same. In the end, it comes down to personal preference. You will choose the one that looks the best to you or the one that has your colors. For whatever reason you give, it is just a personal preference. They are all good bikes.
    What I am trying to tell you is that you may be over thinking this entire thing. If you want a Trek, than get one. They are good bikes. If you can get Wilier or DB for such a huge discount, I think it would be crazy to look elsewhere. There is no other bike on the market that "better". Trek is simply not better than Wilier. They are different bikes and both are very nice and well made. It is your money to spend so you have to do what makes you happy. If it were my money, based on the info that you have given, I would have the Wilier Izoard or GTS in my garage.
    I wish you the best of luck in whatever you do.
  • 08-04-2015
    PJ352
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wyldfyre911 View Post
    Suppose its like buying a car then... all subjective like you said. One of the LBS had recommended a $1600 Trek bike though I thought with the discount that the DB or the Wilier would still be a higher component fit.

    Some facets are subjective, some are more factual.

    FACT: Unless you like pain/ discomfort and the risk of possible injury, the bike has to fit, so make sure to get this right.

    Component selection? Mostly preference and (IMO) buying into marketing hype. I ride just shy of 7k miles annually on Shimano 5600 105 - current Tiagra is probably better, but I do just fine with what I have.

    BUT... my bike fits me very well, so it's comfortable to ride.

    Discounts are fine, but the support you get from reputable LBS's s worth a lot, IMHO.
  • 08-04-2015
    Wyldfyre911
    Thank you again everyone for your help. I'm going to see what I can do about the Wilier GTS or the Century 3 and see how they stack up! Thanks again!
  • 08-04-2015
    Shuffleman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PJ352 View Post
    Some facets are subjective, some are more factual.

    FACT: Unless you like pain/ discomfort and the risk of possible injury, the bike has to fit, so make sure to get this right.

    Component selection? Mostly preference and (IMO) buying into marketing hype. I ride just shy of 7k miles annually on Shimano 5600 105 - current Tiagra is probably better, but I do just fine with what I have.

    BUT... my bike fits me very well, so it's comfortable to ride.

    Discounts are fine, but the support you get from reputable LBS's s worth a lot, IMHO.

    I have never disputed that a bike must fit. I would strongly recommend that you do get a fit. You can and will get great service from most LBS regardless of where you buy your bike. The OP should consult a fitter prior to buying the bike to ensure that the bike is the correct size for him. Once the bike arrives he should go back to the fitter for an actual fitting. A good shop will always support you. You do not have to buy the bike from them. You pay them for fittings and or service. A good business owner gives good service to everybody not just those that buy a bike from him. I did not buy my bike from my LBS. I consulted them on the sizing. I bought the parts and paid them to put it together and then fit me. Since then I have bought 2 mtbs from them, a few jerseys and multiple helmets. Good service pays off.
  • 08-11-2015
    Wyldfyre911
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shuffleman View Post
    It is actually very different than buying a car. For the most part when you buy a car, they are all different. Chrysler cars have Chrysler engines. Honda has Honda engines. If you look at reliability reports Chrysler is at or near the bottom, while Honda is at or near the top. When it comes to bikes, you have mfrgs that make the frames. The frames are unique to the mfgr. The components are not and the same goes for the groupsets. When it comes to groupsets, you have 3 primary ones, Shimano, SRAMM and Campagnolo. I can take a Wilier Frame and a Trek frame and build them out with the exact same components. Cars are not done the same way. Thus, you have differences in reliability and quality of build. With a bike the variance in the quality of the build is limited to the frame only as they all have the same groupsets. We could spend all day going over components but for the most part bike companies use the products of others. For example on the Wilier GTS, it comes with a Sella Italia seat. Trek comes with a Bontrager seat. Another company may come with a Fizik seat. This is what makes bike buying more subjective. There is no Consumer Reports on the reliability of bikes like there is for cars because they are all virtually the same as far as reliability goes. Some companies may offer better support of have a larger dealer network. There are a lot of bikes that we could have recommended to you but you stated that you had a huge discount on DB or Wilier thus we stuck to those brands. If I had a 30% or 40% discount for those brands, I guarantee you that I would be riding one of them right now. If there are ten bikes from good mfgrs all equipped with Ultegra and similar specs they will be priced relatively the same. In the end, it comes down to personal preference. You will choose the one that looks the best to you or the one that has your colors. For whatever reason you give, it is just a personal preference. They are all good bikes.
    What I am trying to tell you is that you may be over thinking this entire thing. If you want a Trek, than get one. They are good bikes. If you can get Wilier or DB for such a huge discount, I think it would be crazy to look elsewhere. There is no other bike on the market that "better". Trek is simply not better than Wilier. They are different bikes and both are very nice and well made. It is your money to spend so you have to do what makes you happy. If it were my money, based on the info that you have given, I would have the Wilier Izoard or GTS in my garage.
    I wish you the best of luck in whatever you do.

    Awesome info. That is the problem I was having. I didn't know there were only 3 manufacturers of group-sets. So a TREK and a DB could technically have the same parts just different frames. So...

    Its basically like Build your own Find the bike with the right price and the components that your looking for?
  • 08-11-2015
    Shuffleman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wyldfyre911 View Post
    Awesome info. That is the problem I was having. I didn't know there were only 3 manufacturers of group-sets. So a TREK and a DB could technically have the same parts just different frames. So...

    Its basically like Build your own Find the bike with the right price and the components that your looking for?

    Just go ride a couple of bikes in your price point and see which one you like the most. The frame is the most important part. You have to be comfortable on that in order to have a good experience. You have a great discount with DB and Wilier. My advise would be to pick out one that is in your price point and test it out. If your stated range is still good for you, you will be getting a great bike that will last for as long as you want to ride it.
  • 08-11-2015
    fishboy316
    Dude you should go and find one to ride!!! I was sold on the c-dale synapse 5 and after riding now own Cervelo S5. Completely different geo bike. I thought I wanted an endurance geo bike and found that was not the case. Fell in love with the S5 in the first mile. Have never looked back. It has a real stiff frame and it is a great hill climber. What am saying is try some bikes out and see what feels right!!! You will know when you ride the one IMHO. I rode about 20 different bikes and the S5 just said take me home! Just saying!

    Bill