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  1. #51
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    Also on the 3T stem. I recently bought the ARX stem from them as well as a Doric Team Carbon post and Ergonova LTD bars. The parts are top notch.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightfend
    People need to put this all in perspective. We are talking about very small numbers of people having problems here.
    True, it is a small percentage that suffer breakage.

    The question people need to ask themselves is, do you want to be that person who ends up being the percentage.

    For me, the answer is no. I know sh*t happens and I don't want it to be me. I have broken my shoulder before and had faceplant injuries from other sports, and know the pain and inconvenience involved. A carbon steerer's performance gain (?) is not worth the potential breakage and health issues that might ensue. But this is just my opinion.

    Everyone needs to decide for themselves.

  3. #53
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    "Composite" forks, ie a metal steerer tube bonded to an otherwise carbon fork, can have its own problems associated with joining dissimilar materials.

    Eg, read:
    http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09234.html
    Hazard: The fork can separate from the steerer tube which can cause the rider to lose control, posing a fall hazard.
    Description: This recall involves 2005 Novara Trionfo bicycles with Aprebic carbon fiber forks. The bicycles are blue and white with black forks, and have the name “Novara” printed on the bars.
    Most road bikes over $1k have carbon forks nowadays, and I bet most of those are metal steerer tubes. All-carbon fork is still a "premium", more $$ item.

  4. #54
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    here is a link to a column by Zinn with manufacturer recommendations regarding carbon fork lifespan. The consensus of the industry is that a carbon fork is longer lasting than a metal one. It is also worth noting that the REI fork recall (google it) was due to 2 incidents - that's a lot of consumer oversight. So stop worrying so much and go out and ride!

    http://www.velonews.com/article/3270

  5. #55
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    I saw a rider get injured after his steel fork snapped during a race in the 80s. He claimed the fork was never crashed but it failed in any event. Any part can fail dramatically and it just sucks if that 1 in a million failure happens to your fork. I like my carbon fork and pay attention to proper torque settings and just ride.

    I'm more worried about that car passing me going 60mph six inches from my leg than sudden fork failure....

  6. #56
    Carbon Fiber = Explode!
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevesbike
    here is a link to a column by Zinn with manufacturer recommendations regarding carbon fork lifespan. The consensus of the industry is that a carbon fork is longer lasting than a metal one. It is also worth noting that the REI fork recall (google it) was due to 2 incidents - that's a lot of consumer oversight. So stop worrying so much and go out and ride!

    http://www.velonews.com/article/3270

    Another thing to note is that multimaterial bonding is usually not the best way to hold things together.

    Having an all CFRP epoxy matrix versus a CFRP-Aluminum epoxy matrix definitely makes a huge difference in the microstructure of the materials.

    There's a reason cast iron would ride just as well as carbon fiber, but it's just too damn heavy.
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  7. #57
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    At 6'3", 210 lbs, I avoid them at all costs. Most bike shops I've been to steer me away from bikes that have carbon steerers. They tell me that I'll destroy the fork. In this situation, I would have to agree with them. carbon steerer forks are designed more for the sub 180 lb. group of riders. You dish out alot more watts and torque when sprinting and climbing than a lighter weight rider. You definitely need to stay away from carbon steerers. Get one with an aluminum steerer and you'll be fine. I did that on my Felt F55 that originally came with a full carbon fork.
    Last edited by terbennett; 06-12-2009 at 06:40 AM.

  8. #58
    Carbon Fiber = Explode!
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    Quote Originally Posted by terbennett
    At 6'3", 210 lbs, I avoid them at all costs. Most bike shops I've been to steer me away from bikes that have carbon steerers. They tell me that I'll destroy the fork. In this situation, I would have to agree with them. carbon steerer forks are designed more for the sub 180 lb. group of riders. You dish out alot more watts and torque when sprinting and climbing than a lighter weight rider. You definitely need to stay away from carbon steerers. Get one with an aluminum steerer and you'll be fine. I did that on my Felt F55 that originally came with a full carbon fork.
    Huh? Again, the Hincappie crash.

    Carbon fiber is and excellent material, but what people dont' know is that most carbon fiber forks with carbon steerers are not monocoque (one-piece) construction.

    If you buy a carbon monocoque fork, say a Look HSC5/6 or Easton EC90, those forks, are so much stronger than the 2 or 3 piece carbon steerer forks out there. Even the Reynolds Ouzo Pros are not monocoque, and if you look on their website, they stopped making forks altogether!

    The more bonding sites you have, more prone to failure. How many pictures of EC90 or HSC5/6 forks do you see around breaking at the steerer? Very few if any.

    If you compare that amount of failures of 100% monocoques to 2/3 piece carbon forks, you'll definitely see where the money goes.

    It's not a marketing gimmick in this case (maybe the comfort and faster claims are) but the ones about strength are not.

    Aluminum will fail, and should be given a fatigue life to consumers (eg: amount of cycles). Yes, bad batches of materials occur, but there's many things in engineering that gets screwed up along the way.

    There's bad material science, and there's bad engineering, and sometimes there's both.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevesbike
    here is a link to a column by Zinn with manufacturer recommendations regarding carbon fork lifespan. The consensus of the industry is that a carbon fork is longer lasting than a metal one. It is also worth noting that the REI fork recall (google it) was due to 2 incidents - that's a lot of consumer oversight. So stop worrying so much and go out and ride!

    http://www.velonews.com/article/3270
    I loved that article and the various manufacturer's explanations. For example:

    Easton, True Temper, Reynolds, etc.:
    ..tech speak... test results... engineering terms... all very interesting.

    Deda :

    Carbon lasts longer than metal. Only love is stronger than carbon...

    LOVE those Italians. Gotta go there again!
    !

  10. #60
    So. Calif.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camilo
    ...
    Deda :
    Carbon lasts longer than metal. Only love is stronger than carbon...
    Until the divorce ;-)

  11. #61
    Pinarello = Explode!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom_h
    "Composite" forks, ie a metal steerer tube bonded to an otherwise carbon fork, can have its own problems associated with joining dissimilar materials.
    Yes, first and foremost the materials have different coefficient of thermal expansion, you can easily crack CF when cooling if the tool is made ouf of aluminum for example (if using prepreg and autoclave) , this will happen at a much lesser degree at room temp (the expanding and contraction), but having materials that expand dissimilar to each other is bad, especially if they were to be working as one component.

    I also feel that if you have to have carbon make sure its mono-cock, I seen some pics at this site http://www.bustedcarbon.com/ of frames that were premade tubes bonded to well whatever the rest is called (I would call these muffs and tubes) and usually since these tubes are not machined and the inside of the muffs are not machined you get crappy mathing in tolerances here, and epoxy is not strong as a material but strong as a bonding agent, you know the thinner the better, and trying to fill empty space with it counting on it being strong is retarded. monocoque all the way.

    And I also heard you need to etch the metals being bonded to get an approporiate surface for the epoxy to stick to, and preferably it goes:

    metal - etched surface of metal - glass fiber - carbon fiber to make the bond really good (the glass fiber may or may not have to do with the thermal expansion dont know)

    I have seen many pics of broken parts where the metal part looks like it was not etched or even sanded/lightly abraded before bonding, thats a big nono even to me. Never try to glue stuff to polished/fine surfaces, its like glueing glass to glass.

    Now since manufacturers dont give a sh1t about this I´d stay away from from metal/CF hybrid parts, since they dont know wtf theyre doing. The carbon part is hard to F up and I assume/hope by now they have some sort of experience with this so this is the safest bet imo.

    btw sorry for posting that thing I did above, I was drunk and it seemed like a good idea at the time.
    Last edited by longcat; 06-13-2009 at 04:45 AM.
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  12. #62
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    Seems to me that the some companies take safety more seriously than other companies

    Quote Originally Posted by stevesbike
    here is a link to a column by Zinn with manufacturer recommendations regarding carbon fork lifespan. The consensus of the industry is that a carbon fork is longer lasting than a metal one. It is also worth noting that the REI fork recall (google it) was due to 2 incidents - that's a lot of consumer oversight. So stop worrying so much and go out and ride!

    http://www.velonews.com/article/3270

    From the article, it seems as though the Italians are very much more into flair/marketing than into adequate product safety testing. Alot of the answers seem to be of the variety of an "I have no idea" variation. True Temper seems to be the only one who does any sort of rigorous product testing. After reading this article and the answers from each company rep, I would feel safer and more inclined to buy a True Temper or Reynolds carbon fork.

  13. #63
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    The main cause of carbon steerer failure is riding with more than 5mm of steerer showing above the stem cap. This means your steerer is now hollow as the steerer plug is not going deep enough to provide internal support against the upper and lower stem bolts.

    Next most common cause is big guys riding steerers with more than 30mm of spacers under the stem.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by durianrider View Post
    The main cause of carbon steerer failure is riding with more than 5mm of steerer showing above the stem cap. This means your steerer is now hollow as the steerer plug is not going deep enough to provide internal support against the upper and lower stem bolts.

    Next most common cause is big guys riding steerers with more than 30mm of spacers under the stem.
    Wow, 9 year old thread resurrected! What prompted this?
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