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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Sorry, my pics post randomly in terms of how they are turned. But on really looking at this ring it looks OK? I had the shop order the replacement so I will replace it. I may also replace the shop... But I wonít welch. I did find some pretty negative reviews, one on RBR, of Rival chain rings, but itís the Internet, you will find what you want to find... It skipped yesterday starting off from a stop uphill. If the skips stop, I guess Iíll keep the shop, haha.
    Looking at the pic, it looks OK. While I'm not a big fan of SRAM road components, I have never heard of a chain ring, much less the large chain ring wearing out at 5K miles.

    That being said, if one or more teeth is bent (and you won't see this in a pic), this could possibly cause what you are describing. I had an FSA chain ring that was bent and it caused a skip and problems shifting. A good mechanic can bend it back. It wouldn't need replacing because of this. Unless you have tremendous torque on the pedals or a bike vs. car incident, it's hard to see how this could happen unless the alloy used is really crappy. I don't know how it happened in my case, but I presume it was that way from the factory.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Looking at the pic, it looks OK. While I'm not a big fan of SRAM road components, I have never heard of a chain ring, much less the large chain ring wearing out at 5K miles.

    That being said, if one or more teeth is bent (and you won't see this in a pic), this could possibly cause what you are describing. I had an FSA chain ring that was bent and it caused a skip and problems shifting. A good mechanic can bend it back. It wouldn't need replacing because of this. Unless you have tremendous torque on the pedals or a bike vs. car incident, it's hard to see how this could happen unless the alloy used is really crappy. I don't know how it happened in my case, but I presume it was that way from the factory.
    It sure as hell isnt from me putting our massive watts! Haha. I saw a tooth that looked short... stubby compared to its peers... I did buy the bike used and that could be a factor. If the ring stops the skip Iíll have an importent data point. I have hit the deck on the drive side twice. One replaced derailleur hanger... Both low speed. On one I was curbed. Itís a weird intersection, not to excuse the asshat that did it, but I avoid that intersection or demonstrably take the lane since.

    I appreciate the feedback back from everyone here!
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    It sure as hell isnt from me putting our massive watts! Haha. I saw a tooth that looked short... stubby compared to its peers... I did buy the bike used and that could be a factor. If the ring stops the skip Iíll have an importent data point. I have hit the deck on the drive side twice. One replaced derailleur hanger... Both low speed. On one I was curbed. Itís a weird intersection, not to excuse the asshat that did it, but I avoid that intersection or demonstrably take the lane since.

    I appreciate the feedback back from everyone here!
    Aha! So how long has this been happening? Has it always happened while you have owned the bike? Did it start happening after one of your mishaps? If you fell and the chain ring hit the curb, I guess that could bend it.

    The "stubby" tooth every so often is by design in order to make upshifting smoother.
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  4. #29
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    Chain ring looks ok to me. I'd keep using it.
    You can't fix stupid.

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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Sorry, my pics post randomly in terms of how they are turned. But on really looking at this ring it looks OK? I had the shop order the replacement so I will replace it. I may also replace the shop... But I wonít welch. I did find some pretty negative reviews, one on RBR, of Rival chain rings, but itís the Internet, you will find what you want to find... It skipped yesterday starting off from a stop uphill. If the skips stop, I guess Iíll keep the shop, haha.
    There is still life here, but it's impossible to tell from the picture if there are chipped teeth, or if any of the teeth are bent.

  6. #31
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    Two rides on the new chain ring. No skipping. Far from definitive as of yet... But a good sign. I did some hard uphill sprints yesterday to see if it would skip and it was fine. I wonít know until a good bit more miles for sure...
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Two rides on the new chain ring. No skipping. Far from definitive as of yet... But a good sign. I did some hard uphill sprints yesterday to see if it would skip and it was fine. I wonít know until a good bit more miles for sure...
    If you sprinted hard you know. Nothing is going to change.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Not for nothing, I do cross chain a lot, 50/28. Never little ring. But I climb the steep short stuff around me in 50/28 all the time. I like to get up and attack the climbs.
    Max. cross chaining while climbing is about the worst thing you can do to a chain and ring.

    Customer brought in a bike with the large ring almost completely flat. He complained about chain skip! His inner ring was unused, just like yours, no evidence of wear whatsoever. He told me he only uses the large ring, obviously, and cross chained a lot. He liked to pedal hard. How many miles? Maybe 1000-1500?

    I don't care how manufacturers spin it, if the chain is slipping into a cog at an angle, it's going to wear out faster than coming on straight. If rider cross chains all the time, as this guy did and you're doing, the large ring is going to wear out pretty fast, sure enough. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

    Remedy: use the small ring! Better yet, install a 42 in there. 42 will shift smooth as silk from the 50, and give you a range of gears you can use.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Max. cross chaining while climbing is about the worst thing you can do to a chain and ring.

    Customer brought in a bike with the large ring almost completely flat. He complained about chain skip! His inner ring was unused, just like yours, no evidence of wear whatsoever. He told me he only uses the large ring, obviously, and cross chained a lot. He liked to pedal hard. How many miles? Maybe 1000-1500?

    I don't care how manufacturers spin it, if the chain is slipping into a cog at an angle, it's going to wear out faster than coming on straight. If rider cross chains all the time, as this guy did and you're doing, the large ring is going to wear out pretty fast, sure enough. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

    Remedy: use the small ring! Better yet, install a 42 in there. 42 will shift smooth as silk from the 50, and give you a range of gears you can use.
    I was going to agree with you before I read that last paragraph. Oh yeah, a 42 small ring and a 21 large cog is all anyone needs, right Fred? Stop bragging about your endowment.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Max. cross chaining while climbing is about the worst thing you can do to a chain and ring.

    Customer brought in a bike with the large ring almost completely flat. He complained about chain skip! His inner ring was unused, just like yours, no evidence of wear whatsoever. He told me he only uses the large ring, obviously, and cross chained a lot. He liked to pedal hard. How many miles? Maybe 1000-1500?

    I don't care how manufacturers spin it, if the chain is slipping into a cog at an angle, it's going to wear out faster than coming on straight. If rider cross chains all the time, as this guy did and you're doing, the large ring is going to wear out pretty fast, sure enough. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

    Remedy: use the small ring! Better yet, install a 42 in there. 42 will shift smooth as silk from the 50, and give you a range of gears you can use.
    The only problem is that the chain doesn't come on to the cog at an angle, it goes from the derailleur to the cog straight. It comes off the cog at an angle. The chain will enter the pulleys at an angle but they straighten it out before it goes to the cog. In reality you don't create a whole lot of extra wear by cross chaining. Think 1x drivetrains...the cogs are huge and really make for some funky angles, but they still work and you can't tell people to not use them when they only have 1 chainring.
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  11. #36
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    So, to speak to Lombardís question, it didnít always do this but I canít pinpoint when it started. So, it may be that when I got curbed I damaged the ring? It was low speed but pretty dramatic as the car just swerved right at me. I dragged as I slided in contact with the curb for a few feet before dumping onto the grass and sidewalk.

    Thanks for the prognosis CX!
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I was going to agree with you before I read that last paragraph. Oh yeah, a 42 small ring and a 21 large cog is all anyone needs, right Fred? Stop bragging about your endowment.
    Forget the 21. The greats went up the mountains in 42-24s. Eddy was "fond" of 44 t. chainrings. Heard tell a few went to a 26, but then had problems with the Campy derailleurs sticking to the largest cog. 42-28 remained a touring gear until this compact crank and 10 speed craze added a bunch of gears nobody uses, PBL being a prime example.

    PBL has a 28 in back. He cross chains into it from his 50 ring, 50-28 lowest gear! That wimpy 34 provides 10-11 gears, all too low! Useless baggage! He never uses them. Doesn't need them.

    A 42 on there would work great for his style of riding. It's plenty small enough from the large ring for the rear gears to shift nicely at the same speeds he's cross chaining. It'll give him a full set of gears he isn't using with the 34.

    50-42 shifts velvety smooth, an 8 tooth jump, much nicer than 50-34, a whopping 16 tooth jump, too far. Chains fall off. He won't be wearing out the large ring. Cross chaining is what's doing it.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    The only problem is that the chain doesn't come on to the cog at an angle, it goes from the derailleur to the cog straight. It comes off the cog at an angle. The chain will enter the pulleys at an angle but they straighten it out before it goes to the cog. In reality you don't create a whole lot of extra wear by cross chaining. Think 1x drivetrains...the cogs are huge and really make for some funky angles, but they still work and you can't tell people to not use them when they only have 1 chainring.
    Good point. The derailleur feeds the chain onto the chosen rear sprocket in vertical alignment. But then it come off the 28 angled to the right, and goes onto the outer ring, under power, angled from the left.

    The outer ring of a two ring crank is also further out, aligned ok with the outer cogs but badly on the inner cogs. A one chain ring set up would line up on the rear gears the same as the inner ring on a 2 ring set up, right?

    There was no other explanation for this customer's flattened teeth. The inner 4 or 5 rear cogs looked like knife blades facing forward. The outer cogs looked okay. So he was riding cross chained all the time, pulling the chain onto the chainring skewed left, buffing those sprockets razor thin, and eventually gone.

    Extreme example. But it tells the story. Have to wonder how long those single chain rings last? I guess they're aligned with the freewheel like an inner ring would, so maybe there's no problem.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 04-09-2019 at 12:35 AM.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Forget the 21. The greats went up the mountains in 42-24s. Eddy was "fond" of 44 t. chainrings. Heard tell a few went to a 26, but then had problems with the Campy derailleurs sticking to the largest cog. 42-28 remained a touring gear until this compact crank and 10 speed craze added a bunch of gears nobody uses, PBL being a prime example.

    PBL has a 28 in back. He cross chains into it from his 50 ring, 50-28 lowest gear! That wimpy 34 provides 10-11 gears, all too low! Useless baggage! He never uses them. Doesn't need them.

    A 42 on there would work great for his style of riding. It's plenty small enough from the large ring for the rear gears to shift nicely at the same speeds he's cross chaining. It'll give him a full set of gears he isn't using with the 34.

    50-42 shifts velvety smooth, an 8 tooth jump, much nicer than 50-34, a whopping 16 tooth jump, too far. Chains fall off. He won't be wearing out the large ring. Cross chaining is what's doing it.
    If 44/24 is good enough for Eddy, it's good enough for me.

    If course he's riding around on a 50/34 with 11-32 like most of the rest of us theses days, but don't the that little detail ruin you knee thrashing party.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    If 44/24 is good enough for Eddy, it's good enough for me.

    If course he's riding around on a 50/34 with 11-32 like most of the rest of us theses days, but don't the that little detail ruin you knee thrashing party.
    As usual, Fredrico wants us to think he has the largest endowment by bragging about being able to climb cliffs in the same gearing Eddy Merckx uses.

    As far as shifting is concerned, I have bikes with 5800 and 6800 11-32T 34/50 and shifting is flawless. Chain drops are a thing of the past unless you do something really stupid. And how difficult is it to operate that FD shift lever. You paid for it, use it. I never use big-big and seldom use small-small. I'm in the small ring unless I'm doing a long flat or downhill stretch.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Forget the 21. The greats went up the mountains in 42-24s. Eddy was "fond" of 44 t. chainrings. Heard tell a few went to a 26, but then had problems with the Campy derailleurs sticking to the largest cog. 42-28 remained a touring gear until this compact crank and 10 speed craze added a bunch of gears nobody uses, PBL being a prime example.

    PBL has a 28 in back. He cross chains into it from his 50 ring, 50-28 lowest gear! That wimpy 34 provides 10-11 gears, all too low! Useless baggage! He never uses them. Doesn't need them.

    A 42 on there would work great for his style of riding. It's plenty small enough from the large ring for the rear gears to shift nicely at the same speeds he's cross chaining. It'll give him a full set of gears he isn't using with the 34.

    50-42 shifts velvety smooth, an 8 tooth jump, much nicer than 50-34, a whopping 16 tooth jump, too far. Chains fall off. He won't be wearing out the large ring. Cross chaining is what's doing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Forget the 21. The greats went up the mountains in 42-24s. Eddy was "fond" of 44 t. chainrings. Heard tell a few went to a 26, but then had problems with the Campy derailleurs sticking to the largest cog. 42-28 remained a touring gear until this compact crank and 10 speed craze added a bunch of gears nobody uses, PBL being a prime example.

    PBL has a 28 in back. He cross chains into it from his 50 ring, 50-28 lowest gear! That wimpy 34 provides 10-11 gears, all too low! Useless baggage! He never uses them. Doesn't need them.

    A 42 on there would work great for his style of riding. It's plenty small enough from the large ring for the rear gears to shift nicely at the same speeds he's cross chaining. It'll give him a full set of gears he isn't using with the 34.

    50-42 shifts velvety smooth, an 8 tooth jump, much nicer than 50-34, a whopping 16 tooth jump, too far. Chains fall off. He won't be wearing out the large ring. Cross chaining is what's doing it.
    Ummm, no. I do attack a lot of short steep climbs in 50/28 but we have some STEEP grades. Really steep! Mercifully short. Measured in meters rather in kilometers. But those are climbed in 34/28, and one or two of them are climbed wishing for a 32... My big ring vs small ring ratio varies based on the area Iím riding. I can ride completely flat or lots of climbing, not mountains, but respectable distance to grade ratios. We donít have the long dragging climbs you find in the mountains. Zero. But I live about 3 miles from the highest point on the eastern seaboard.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    But I live about 3 miles from the highest point on the eastern seaboard.
    The twin lighthouses?
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Ummm, no. I do attack a lot of short steep climbs in 50/28 but we have some STEEP grades. Really steep! Mercifully short. Measured in meters rather in kilometers. But those are climbed in 34/28, and one or two of them are climbed wishing for a 32... My big ring vs small ring ratio varies based on the area Iím riding. I can ride completely flat or lots of climbing, not mountains, but respectable distance to grade ratios. We donít have the long dragging climbs you find in the mountains. Zero. But I live about 3 miles from the highest point on the eastern seaboard.
    34-19 is exactly the same gear as 50-28. And you've got a bunch of gears on either side to fine tune the effort. And you won't trash the large ring. Just sayin'.

    42-23 is also the same gear as 50-28. No cross chain problems in that gear.

    42-28 would be the same as 34-23. How often do you have to bail out on 34-23? And was it worth it?

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Cigarettes, Single Speed, no helmets and wine & beer breaks were also just fine in the TDF at one point.

    Some people learn and evolve. Others, apparently, don't.
    Yeah, man. We're talking about gears, though. Single speed is still a viable option in urban environments, hear tell. The latest thing: single chainrings, back to 12 speeds of the '80s, all lined up on the rear wheel. Be modern!

    Some riders think things through and decide what they need. Others go by whatever the manufacturers are selling, join the herd and ride matching equipment with their buddies. Not knocking it, just not all that impressed with the gearing selections.

    So we have vintage bike grand fondos on dirt roads, a romantic fantasy of past times, although 50 years ago, racers raced on paved roads on 21# bikes, 700C tubulars, with 52-42, 13-21, 22, 23, or 24. Nobody wimped out any sooner than riders today on their 17# bikes with 34-28s or whatever. Making it to the top of the mountain was never an issue.

    Gravity is a b!tch no matter what gear you're in. No gear is small enough to take away the pain. I'm all for getting it over with, but I'd do it in 34-17, not 50-28, just sayin'.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Sorry, my pics post randomly in terms of how they are turned. But on really looking at this ring it looks OK? I had the shop order the replacement so I will replace it. I may also replace the shop... But I wonít welch. I did find some pretty negative reviews, one on RBR, of Rival chain rings, but itís the Internet, you will find what you want to find... It skipped yesterday starting off from a stop uphill. If the skips stop, I guess Iíll keep the shop, haha.
    The teeth do look pretty good, but there's definitely evidence of "shark finning," most certainly from extreme cross chaining.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    So we have vintage bike grand fondos on dirt roads, a romantic fantasy of past times, although 50 years ago, racers raced on paved roads on 21# bikes, 700C tubulars, with 52-42, 13-21, 22, 23, or 24. Nobody wimped out any sooner than riders today on their 17# bikes with 34-28s or whatever. Making it to the top of the mountain was never an issue.

    Gravity is a b!tch no matter what gear you're in. No gear is small enough to take away the pain. I'm all for getting it over with, but I'd do it in 34-17, not 50-28, just sayin'.
    You're funny, Fred. Why do I find your posts entertaining and annoying at the same time?

    I don't need to brag about my endowment and not ashamed to admit I'll use the 34-32 when I need it. Maybe I won't need it, but it's nice to have it when the climb gets really tough or it's the end of the day and my oomph isn't what it was earlier in the day.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    You're funny, Fred. Why do I find your posts entertaining and annoying at the same time?

    I don't need to brag about my endowment and not ashamed to admit I'll use the 34-32 when I need it. Maybe I won't need it, but it's nice to have it when the climb gets really tough or it's the end of the day and my oomph isn't what it was earlier in the day.
    Don't know why you think I'm bragging "about my endowment." Probably not as good as yours. I've spent 35 years "just riding." Raced Cat 4 two seasons at age 42, and got one lousy prime for winning the 5th lap in a 10 lap criterium. Whoo..hoo! That's all the bragging rights I can claim. My comments derive from the miles, and riders I've ridden with and worked on their bikes.

    When bikes went to 39 from 42, and kept adding more climbing gears, men and women I rode with were still using the same gears from 6-7 speed days. I never saw them climbing in their 39-27s, much less 34-28, whatever. They'd be several cogs out, or half the time cross chaining their 52 or later 50. I'd pass them whenever I wanted spinning 42-28 at 90 rpm. Still do!

    I did a few rides on a friend's bike; found the legs spinning out in 34-28, creeping along at 6-8 mph on climbs I had no problem doing 10-11 mph in the 42. My legs much preferred working just a little harder at slightly lower cadences they'd gotten used to in 42-22, 23.

    The several touring trips I took loaded up with 80# of luggage were no problem climbing out of river beds on 42-28. So I never felt the need to add gears, click shifters, and narrower chains, all compromises on mechanical endurance, cost, and reliability. I think of my bikes as something close to maintenance and worry free single speeds, except I added an inner chain ring and a front derailleur.

    When I started riding, 34s were the "granny" gear on 3 speed cranks. 42 brings the freewheel gear range exactly where I want it. Well almost. I'd love to find "junior" freewheels that start with 14. They're as rare as hen's teeth. Never use the 13. Seldom use the 14, either, but its "nice to have" just in case I'm feeling good, drafting stronger riders, have a tailwind, or going down a "false flat."

    Have to laugh at riders who have 12s and 11s in back they say they only use on downhills! If the grade is steep enough to spin out in the 14, go full tuck and surprise, 2 mph faster! Pedaling beats the headwind above 28 mph and slows me down. I could never handle 52-13 on the flats, except occasionally as a slow cadence "recovery gear" drafting a fast group.

    Have a 50t. outer ring in a box. Used it a couple of seasons, but missed the large hoops. Legs preferred 52-17 rather than 50-15 for example. They could handle the torque better. Paris-Roubaix riders like those large chain rings. Posted it here. Slower cadences have a stabilizing effect over the cobbles at racing speeds. Moser broke the hour record on 55-17, I think. Eddy did it on 52-14.

    Physiologists say 70-80 rpm is optimal for most riders, but compact gearing sets them up for high cadences at normal cycling speeds, 12-18 mph. Spinning is great at high wattages; saves the legs. But inefficient at lower wattages when riders aren't challenging anaerobic threshold.

    That's ok, though. Learning how to spin teaches the legs to fire at faster cadences and also stimulates the slow twitch aerobic fibers. Hinault stated that slow twitch aerobic fibers work better than fast twitch when cadences drop, such as time trialing. I will brag about hardly ever having to use the fast twitch on climbs. I just slow down cadence, keep an even strain, still go way into AT by the top, but recover pretty quickly, and can always do it again. That night my legs aren't sore. Not bad for an old man pushing 76.

    Others may correct me on any of this. Have at it.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    The twin lighthouses?
    Yep, but across the highway. Mt Mitchell. It is the Monmouth County 9/11 memorial btw and that alone is very much worth the visit. Well, it is a difficult and moving experience for me and us locals anyway, my town lost the most people next to NYC itself. If you know the the area, itís spring classics Belgium... Sharp climbs but short. Little
    flat riding but no pure climbing. Welcome to spring!
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    34-19 is exactly the same gear as 50-28. And you've got a bunch of gears on either side to fine tune the effort. And you won't trash the large ring. Just sayin'.

    42-23 is also the same gear as 50-28. No cross chain problems in that gear.

    42-28 would be the same as 34-23. How often do you have to bail out on 34-23? And was it worth it?

    BikeCalc.com - Speed at all Cadences for any Gear and Wheel
    Yeah, I donít use lots on the 34. I use 34/23, 34/25 and 34/28. Unlike you, I want more, not less, Iíd love a 34/32 option. I climb grades that look like the upper deck of a football stadium. No joke. Short grades though. No matter what, Iím still going uphill... You make it seem like once you hit 34/23 you are leisurely, and maybe you are that bad-azz. I am not. It is still steep. I donít get a free pass because I am in 34/28.
    Last edited by PBL450; 04-10-2019 at 05:11 PM.
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