Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay direct version 6.0 - Page 4
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  1. #76
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    I just posted this over on Velobuild:

    OK, got the stuff today. Matte MC053 (Scott Foil clone) from Miracle Trade. Same exact frame as the one Apachesix just posted (great choice!). I also bought HB003 bars and ST002 stem. First impressions are very favorable. We'll see as I build it up.

    Frame only:

    3K weave looks good. The headtube is seriously beefy with a 1.5" bottom bearing. Fork crown is a beast, I need a new caliper bolt. All of the internal cables have integral liners which are neatly done.

    With all of the parts I'll use to build this up:

    Scrounged Ultegra 6600, brand new Ultegra WH6700 wheels, Miracle Trade carbon bars and stem. Old Selle Italia SLR. I don't have a lot of money to blow on bike stuff. Total build cost will be less than $1,700 (which my wife is just OK with).

    Here's a close up of the seatpost clamping mechanism on this bike. It's really well engineered:

    Pardon my foot. Basically, it's an alloy (carbon?) expanding wedge that clamps the post back against the solid back of the seat tube. Many bikes use a similar design and it seems like a good way to prevent slipping and improve durability.

    Weights:
    Frame (size 54): 1,190 (with clamp) 1,100 without. The clamp is pretty beefy.
    Fork: 460 (uncut)
    Seatpost: 240
    Stem: 140 (100MM, looks like a 6 degree rise)
    Bars: 215 (240s)

    All are about what I expected, not super light but perfectly acceptable.

    I mounted the wheels just to check clearance, something I was a bit concerned about. Plenty of room with 23MM Conti GP4000s. Wheels mount up straight and centered, frame looks true. RD hanger is a thick piece of alloy. Carbon dropouts with zero alloy (I think).

    I bought three of the Neco headsets and they seem to roll smoothly. Not a hint of alloy in the headtube of this frame, is that standard these days?

    Overall, this is a pretty tough looking frame. Everything looks a bit overbuilt and durable. Hopefully it will last. The bars, stem and seatpost have integral sections of roughened epoxy to increase friction which is a swell feature. Will build up this weekend.
    Last edited by Hiro11; 02-16-2012 at 07:13 PM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    I just posted this over on Velobuild:

    OK, got the stuff today. Matte MC053 (Scott Foil clone) from Miracle Trade. I also bought HB003 bars and ST002 stem. First impressions are very favorable. We'll see as I build it up.

    Frame only:

    3K weave looks good. The headtube is seriously beefy with a 1.5" bottom bearing. Fork crown is a beast, I need a new caliper bolt. All of the internal cables have integral liners which are neatly done.

    With all of the parts I'll use to build this up:

    Scrounged Ultegra 6600, brand new Ultegra WH6700 wheels, Miracle Trade carbon bars and stem. Old Selle Italia SLR. I don't have a lot of money to blow on bike stuff. Total build cost will be less than $1,700 (which my wife is just OK with).

    Here's a close up of the seatpost clamping mechanism on this bike. It's really well engineered:

    Pardon my foot. Basically, it's an alloy (carbon?) expanding wedge that clamps the post back against the solid back of the seat tube. Many bikes use a similar design and it seems like a good way to prevent slipping and improve durability.

    Weights:
    Frame (size 54): 1,190 (with clamp) 1,100 without. The clamp is pretty beefy.
    Fork: 460 (uncut)
    Seatpost: 240
    Stem: 140 (100MM, looks like a 6 degree rise)
    Bars: 215 (240s)

    All are about what I expected, not super light but perfectly acceptable.

    I mounted the wheels just to check clearance, something I was a bit concerned about. Plenty of room with 23MM Conti GP4000s. Wheels mount up straight and centered, frame looks true. RD hanger is a thick piece of alloy. Carbon dropouts with zero alloy (I think).

    I bought three of the Neco headsets and they seem to roll smoothly. Not a hint of alloy in the headtube of this frame, is that standard these days?

    Overall, this is a pretty tough looking frame. Everything looks a bit overbuilt and durable. Hopefully it will last. The bars, stem and seatpost have integral sections of roughened epoxy to increase friction which is a swell feature. Will build up this weekend.
    cant wait to see your built photos and report

  3. #78
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    - nice to see another one and hear your 1st impression of the quality. Mine is in the SHENZHEN sorting center. Enjoy the build, I look forward to the finished product and ride report.
    EDIT - Sorry @ Hiro
    Last edited by apachesix; 02-16-2012 at 09:02 PM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kupkake View Post
    ...Good question is what does the available market in the US think is a fair price to pay for someone taking a lot of the up-front work in sourcing the frames. Especially since the consumer pretty much can do a .5sec Google search an find the manuf. price... Prob not enough to quit the day job!
    I can personally attest that it was really easy to go direct for me. I knew nothing about this option until about three months ago. Thanks to this terrific forum, I knew exactly what to expect (thanks, guys!).

    Overall, I get the feeling we're right on the brink of the factory direct / wholesale option being relatively mainstream in the US. The wholesalers just have to take care of a few rough edges (web-based ordering interface etc) and it will be just like buying a frame from Competitive Cyclist. Also, in my opinion they need to stop pirating frame designs and do some of their own engineering to eliminate the slight smell of skeevy-ness that the process currently has... says the guy who just bought a copy of a Foil (at least I didn't get it's decal-ed up to look like the real thing).

    IMO, it's going to crush the pricing in the mid range bike market. People will always pay a lot for the top end "heritage" European brands, but will people pay for $4K for a Giant, Trek, Fuji etc if it were just as easy to get a Hong Fu built up for less than half that?

  5. #80
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    Nice work Hiro11. That is a lot of bike for $1,700. Interested in seeing the final product.
    I thought of that while riding my bicycle. ~ Albert Einstein on the theory of relativity

  6. #81
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    any people have nice time trial frame?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    I can personally attest that it was really easy to go direct for me. I knew nothing about this option until about three months ago. Thanks to this terrific forum, I knew exactly what to expect (thanks, guys!).

    Overall, I get the feeling we're right on the brink of the factory direct / wholesale option being relatively mainstream in the US. The wholesalers just have to take care of a few rough edges (web-based ordering interface etc) and it will be just like buying a frame from Competitive Cyclist. Also, in my opinion they need to stop pirating frame designs and do some of their own engineering to eliminate the slight smell of skeevy-ness that the process currently has... says the guy who just bought a copy of a Foil (at least I didn't get it's decal-ed up to look like the real thing).

    IMO, it's going to crush the pricing in the mid range bike market. People will always pay a lot for the top end "heritage" European brands, but will people pay for $4K for a Giant, Trek, Fuji etc if it were just as easy to get a Hong Fu built up for less than half that?
    Agreed on almost all of these points.

    1) They are 'trying' to make their own frames - see the FM015, FM028, and almost all of the TT frames. But as long as their is a market for people buying Foil clones, Dogma copies, etc., there will be a market for making them.

    2) I don't think it's going to have a big effect on the real market, not for a long time. These bikes are in the same place as used bikes: as long as you're OK not getting a warranty and coming from a not-necessarily-reputable source, then you're OK. I think the frames are getting to a point where no one expects them to blow up on you downhill, but there's a big difference between buying a mid-range Specialized from the shop and buying a frame from China or Taiwan.

    3) Finally, how many people build their own bikes? You and I know how to build them, which is why this is an option for us. However, Joe Schmoe the Weekend Warrior doesn't have the first idea about sourcing a bars and stems and cables and wheels and tires and saddles, etc, etc. You can buy a build kit online, but at that point, you might as well buy a complete Force bike for $1500.

  8. #83
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    I posted a while back in version 5.0 page 231 about the internal cable routing flaw in Dengfu fm098
    which caused a shifting in the rear gear. Finally got the problem solved by "routing the cable externally"
    the frame I received was really a piece of sh.t I have email tony but he has never response. So I'm done with Dengfu. Hope you guys got a good one with dengfu but if you don't you're on ur own.

  9. #84
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    Hopefully this does not get lost in the noise.
    I know that some here have had good luck with getting paint done by the Chinese factories.
    I am trying to get a 3 colour design done and am a little concerned that they are not really understanding what is needed.
    i have sent them a picture of what I want and told them I basically want it replicated but in different colours. Anyone got any good tips on how to communicate this better? I also seem to have some misunderstanding about their paint price. Their catalogue says $60 for 3 colour but they are saying it is another $150. Is this a set up cost for paint/decals?

    Also anyone happen to have seen the 3T Funda forks via any of these guys? I know that Miracle Trade did do them but apparently they dont have them any more.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTR View Post
    Hopefully this does not get lost in the noise.
    I know that some here have had good luck with getting paint done by the Chinese factories.
    I am trying to get a 3 colour design done and am a little concerned that they are not really understanding what is needed.
    i have sent them a picture of what I want and told them I basically want it replicated but in different colours. Anyone got any good tips on how to communicate this better? I also seem to have some misunderstanding about their paint price. Their catalogue says $60 for 3 colour but they are saying it is another $150. Is this a set up cost for paint/decals?

    Also anyone happen to have seen the 3T Funda forks via any of these guys? I know that Miracle Trade did do them but apparently they dont have them any more.
    try google translator

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpotisu View Post
    try google translator
    Tried, but I dont know that this was any more helpful.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpotisu View Post
    I posted a while back in version 5.0 page 231 about the internal cable routing flaw in Dengfu fm098
    which caused a shifting in the rear gear. Finally got the problem solved by "routing the cable externally"
    the frame I received was really a piece of sh.t I have email tony but he has never response. So I'm done with Dengfu. Hope you guys got a good one with dengfu but if you don't you're on ur own.
    Do you have pics? What else did you try?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjdwyer23 View Post
    Do you have pics? What else did you try?
    tried everything seem like the internal tube is sliding
    you can see pics in version 5 page 231

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by persondude27 View Post
    He deserves to be banned simply for the colors he used in the website. Yuck.
    my thoughts exactly... I looked at it an was like.. "regardless of location or service I won't buy from this guy because of this site..." (coming from an eCommerce web designer )

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTR View Post
    Tried, but I dont know that this was any more helpful.
    FTR, why dont you post up some pictures of what you sent them and have one of us photoshop the proper colors on it for you. 150 sounds like they may be charging you for more than paint. Perhaps you have some very thin/fine lines and/or decals that they have to design and water float on?

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTR View Post
    Hopefully this does not get lost in the noise.
    Anyone got any good tips on how to communicate this better? I also seem to have some misunderstanding about their paint price. Their catalogue says $60 for 3 colour but they are saying it is another $150. Is this a set up cost for paint/decals?
    FTR,
    I downloaded Gimp software to edit their pics and then was able to show them exactly what I wanted. It is pretty simple use. Your case would be easier to do than mine since you are using the same design just different colors. All you would need to do is use the paint bucket to change each color to what you want. I had to "paint" the matt frame pics they sent me.

    I had to pay a $35 molding fee for the red decal and there was a separate fee to paint the fork. I went through ICAN so I don't know if Miracle has different prices, but ICAN sent me a sheet with all the prices. I still need to see it in person but as you can see from the pics I posted it seems to have turned out just like I asked.
    Here is what I sent them so you can compare to my post above. The only spot I have found different is the very top of the seat tube above the stays didn't get paint but I'm ok with it (still hits the idea of the design enough for me):

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTR View Post
    Also anyone happen to have seen the 3T Funda forks via any of these guys? I know that Miracle Trade did do them but apparently they dont have them any more.
    I got one on my bike from Greatkeen.

  18. #93
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    Thanks for the replies.
    I have responded asking that they confirm the costs and have detailed the costs as I understand them.
    If the costs cover the frame and 2 different forks (with 2 different paint designs on each) then I am happy with the price and will get them to proceed with providing me with a mock up.
    Once I have the mock up it will be easier for me to make any changes that are needed.
    I have tried using Gimp and other paint type programs in the past but I am obviously "GIMP-challenged".

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTR View Post
    Once I have the mock up it will be easier for me to make any changes that are needed. I have tried using Gimp and other paint type programs in the past but I am obviously "GIMP-challenged".
    If you need help feel free to pm me, I think I am getting the hang of GIMP for basic things and could make the changes for you.
    Semper Fi,
    Andrew

  20. #95
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    Hello,everyone. My name is peter.
    I am new here.
    I want to know Is anyone know cyclingyong?Today i find some interesting stuffs on their website.
    They'r offering the specialized s-works tarmac sl3 at amazing price.
    But the photos of their list is for the original bike. So i ask them for the real photos of their frame. Here are the photos they send.Only have got the photos for the naked frame and the tarmac expert.I have also been told that more painting will be done in next few days and they can upload more photos.
    I am really interested in it.So i want to know has anyone brought bike from cyclingyong? How do you feel like it?
    Any reply will be appreciated

  21. #96
    FTR
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    Search function will show that there has been many discussions in these threads about CyclingYong (and not necessarily favourable).

  22. #97
    FTR
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    Quote Originally Posted by apachesix View Post
    FTR,
    I downloaded Gimp software to edit their pics and then was able to show them exactly what I wanted. It is pretty simple use. Your case would be easier to do than mine since you are using the same design just different colors. All you would need to do is use the paint bucket to change each color to what you want. I had to "paint" the matt frame pics they sent me.

    I had to pay a $35 molding fee for the red decal and there was a separate fee to paint the fork. I went through ICAN so I don't know if Miracle has different prices, but ICAN sent me a sheet with all the prices. I still need to see it in person but as you can see from the pics I posted it seems to have turned out just like I asked.
    Here is what I sent them so you can compare to my post above. The only spot I have found different is the very top of the seat tube above the stays didn't get paint but I'm ok with it (still hits the idea of the design enough for me):
    From the latest response it does seem that they are charging a fee to "mask off" the sections as I am basically wanting 2 colours and also a panel where the carbon weave will show through and a decal will go.
    Still $150 for that "masking" on the frame seems pretty steep.

  23. #98
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    Both ICAN and Miracle have a SL3 clone too. Search for SP-AC058. That said I too are interested to see if anyone got one. Been thinking of getting a bare UD frame without any clearcoat so I can do my own paint job.

  24. #99
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    Hi,
    First post after spending many hours( never easy for french people understanding foreign languages ;-) to read these two threads ( 5 and 6) about carbon chinese frames.
    Many thanks for all the informations, members share to everybody, it's a very positive attitude and a pleasure to see discussions never get loose in personal charges or quarrells ( very frequent in my country )
    I am, now, ready to put the trigger on a tt frame ( MC012 Miracle ) and i have just to learn more about finer points about "GIMP"
    So, @FTR, wich seller gave you a quote of 150 $ for 3 colours ? Miracle ?
    @ APACHESIX, your frame is very nice, the work was execute from, only, the pictures above ?
    In that case, i may look about ICAN tt frames !
    Thanks ad sorry again for my poor english !

  25. #100
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    I just finished building my Scott Foil MC053 replica from Miracle trade 56cm 3k gloss. I ordered the frame in Dec and just got it in VA, USA on Feb 15th. The size 56 i guess is a new size. Anyways, the frame came in great shape. A few minor issues/pointers:
    1. I purchased two headsets with it, which was good. The first crown race did not press over the 1.5" steer tube, it just slid down over it. So i used the other crown race which i pressed in (hammered) with the park crown race setter tool. This is more an issue w/ the headset not the fork. I measured the fork the steer tube with calipers and it was almost exactly 1.5".
    2. The cable guide for the front derailleur had some carbon stuff stuck in it when routing from behind the bottom bracket. Its hard to explain, but i just took a screw driver and cleaned it out. This is where the cable comes out from the down tube right in front of the bottom bracket then wraps around under the bottom bracket into a hole in the area between where the stays meet.
    3. The internal cable guides rattle a bit over bumpy roads. I noticed this when i got the frame and was tapping against it with my hand. Not a big deal, i guess i could do something about this but not sure what.
    4. Seat post wedge was a bit tricky. Make sure to install the seat post first and mark the height with some tape. Then install the wedge unit as a whole and make sure it is flush with the top tube. If you dont do this, the seat post will creak a bit.
    5. Seat clamp is a PITA. I dont like it at all. Its very hard to adjust the angle.

    Took the bike out for 40 miles yesterday. Bike felt great, very similar feel to my real scott addict SL. Felt just as stiff as the real thing, but its quite a bit heavier. Hopefully in a few years these chinese frames will come down in weight.
    Everything else was great though, i took a lot of pictures below with weights and descriptions. Email me if you have questions about the build gte534j at gmail

    Scott Foil Replica Scott Foil Chinese MC053 - a set on Flickr

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