Chinese titanium - Beware Titan Product
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  1. #1
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    Chinese titanium - Beware Titan Product

    This is a warning to all those thinking of buying a Chinese Titanium frame from Xi’an Titan Product.
    The following is my personal experience of buying a titanium frame.
    Unfortunately I seem to be one of those people who if you’ve heard of some crazy sh#* thing happening to someone and thought ‘its just an urban myth’ or ‘that’s something that rarely happens to anyone’, well, it usually happens to me.
    After much researching I narrowed frame builders down to Titan Product and XACD. I found trying to deal with Porter at XACD a complete headache. The bloke is a pain in the arse. He has a massive chip on his shoulder and I figured, should I have any problems, dealing with him would be a nightmare. Anita at Xi’an Titan Product however was easy to converse with.
    After many emails back and forth I eventually finalised my frame dimensions. It took approximately 4 weeks from payment until the frame arrived.
    Out of the box it looked great. I proudly took it to my LBS to have the headset pressed in.
    And this is where it turns to crap. Upon inspecting the head tube the LBS mechanic found the head tube bent. Being vertically bent meant the ends were no longer perpendicular but on top of this each side of the head tube was not equal. The head tube closest to the join of the down tube and top tube had shrunk so that it was shorter than the front of the head tube.
    Regardless of this I instructed the mechanic to press the headset in anyway, just to see what happens. The headsets did not sit properly; there was a gap in some areas between the headset and the head tube. Then, when trying to fit the fork through, it would not fit. After a little fidgeting it finally pushed through but would not rotate easily due to the forces the bent head tube (and therefore headset) put onto it.
    After I finished throwing a tantrum, which included much swearing and kicking whatever I wouldn’t break my foot on, I decided to take the frame to another LBS to get a second opinion. They also told me the head tube was stuffed and even pointed out the uneven markings on the headset once it had been removed. Indicating a head tube that was not round either. Great. Still not happy and in denial I took it to a third LBS, same diagnosis.
    I contact Anita at Xi’an Titan and told her the problem. She said I could either return the frame and they would refund shipping and the frame cost or they would pay for the frame to be fixed locally.
    I decided it would be easier if I simply returned the frame and got a replacement.
    When they received the frame back they initially gave me 2 options:
    1. A full refund
    2. CNC head tube out and replace it.
    I told them I would simply like a refund.
    They refused. Nice choice eh?
    Anita at Xi’an Titan Product told me their ‘Engineer’ had looked at the frame and found it to be fine. (They also said they inspected the frame before it left and said it was fine). They said they would return the frame but refused to refund my money as they had previously promised.
    I now don’t want the frame back as I don’t know what they have done to it. Whether they have cut the head tube out and replaced it or bent it somehow or faced the head tube. I have no idea how they have decided a head tube was functional when 3 independent LBS wrenches here in Australia can assess it as being f*#@ed?
    I have now had to put a dispute in through Alibaba in the hope they will force Xi’an Titan Product to refund my money but it is looking unlikely.
    Other wonderful quotes from Anita is that they ‘produce 1000s of frames every year and they have never had a problem’. I find this very unlikely. No company in the world who produce 1000s of items per year have no problems at all.
    And ‘The bending is unavoidable to weld large downtube to a long headtube’. So anyone looking to buy a Ti frame off these guys, make sure your head tube is less than 15cm long.
    On top of all of this I bought a number of titanium bolts from them that never arrived. Anita told me she packaged them in the box with the frame but unless someone opened the box and took them out (unlikely) they were never sent with the frame.
    It is horrible that Anita at Titan assured me that they would pay for not only refunding the frame but for return shipping but as soon as they had the frame back they changed their mind and refused any refund at all.
    I saw a number of happy stories from people who had bought frames from them and little bad stories. Well, here’s your bad story.
    Further to this, through the AliExpress feedback system, I gave Xi’an Titan Product a 1 star feedback rating on the transaction. This has never appeared on the website. They still have a 100% positive feedback rating on their AliExpress site.
    So, there you have it. You have been warned. Use my experience to way up the pro’s and con’s. I thought Titan Product was the best of the bad lot but I was wrong. They are as dishonest as the rest of them, so take your chances.
    Anyone looking for further info, feel free to PM me.
    (PS – You’ll find my post in a few bike forums to get the message out there.)
    Forewarned is forearmed.

  2. #2
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    Oh dear ... not good not good

  3. #3
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    I had a very similar experience with an American custom bike builder. The difference between you and me is that I'm out almost $4000.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    Habenero and Bikes Direct don't ship to Aust.
    Next.

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    Mr. Mark Ryan customed a 56cm cyclocross frame in our company 16th April 2012. We completed frame and sent to him on 23th May. After half a month, Mr. Mark Ryan told us the frame headtube is too bend to install fork. At beginnng I was surprised, because we have quality control before shipping. I told Mr. Mark Ryan the bending of headtube is in its tolerance. It shouldn't be a problem assembling. Why do I say it is in its tolerance. As most of people know, the titanium frame tube is very thin only 0.9mm thick. After heating/welding, it will slightly bent or ovaled. The frame manufacture have mould to control bending degree and they have a reamer to machine inner tube to prevent oval. Of course we cann't guarrantee 100% straight after welding. But we will make it in its tolerance. In this article, Mr. Mark Ryan said I told him its because headtube too long, the headtube bend. It's not true. I didn't say that. I told Mr. Mark Ryan because his downtube is very large (44.5mm) and headtube is very long 150mm. It's more easy to cause bending.

    I told Mr. Mark Ryan you can try other shop to install frame. Maybe different store have different method. In order to let Mr. Mark Ryan trust the frame, I told him we produce 1000 frames a year, none of them had headtube problem. Obivoiusly Mr. Mark Ryan misunderstood me. He didn’t mention headtube on his article. It make others think me stupid to say none of problem for 1000 frames.

    After one day, Mr. Mark Ryan said he have tried 3 shops and all say frame is useless and insist we should make a new frame for him. But it is impossible for us to send a new frame without confirm previous frame is real usless. We insist to ship frame back first and promised Mr. Mark Ryan we will refund all expense including freight shipping back if frame realy usless. By the way, Mr. Mark Ryan quoted us 700 dollars for frame shipping back from Australia at begining. Finally the frame was shipped back by EMS which is only 100 dollars. Here is dispute. After we received frame, we installed it by our fork and headset. It worked well. We made photos to Mr. Mark Ryan and we even prepared a video how it is easily installed. But Mr. Mark Ryan insist full refund. He said we must did something after received frame. Actually we not. Mr. Mark Ryan sent a dispute to Aliexpress. We both provide evidence to Aliexpress. At last, we lost due to we have no vedio opening box. Aliexpress refund money to Mr. Mark Ryan. Mr. Mark Ryan didn't mention this part in his article. About bolts, we sent it with frame. Mr. Mark Ryan said he didn't see it after he received goods 20 days later. He made a dispute in Paypal too. But at last Paypal didn't support Mr. Mark Ryan. I thought the dispute have been settled down by two authority (Aliexpress and Paypal). But no. Mr. Mark Ryan wrote some bad words on Aliexpress store feedback and gave a very low value. He tried to hurt our name and reputation. Fortunately Aliexpress prevent it. Now Mr. Mark Ryan spread bad words through this forum. I cann't prevent it as internet is free speaking. And I won't do it either. Because I believe we still have many many customers who are happy with our products.

    Anita from Titan product.
    By the way, I won't response for this article any mow. I gor more important thing to do.
    Last edited by AnitaZhang; 07-18-2012 at 06:42 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnitaZhang View Post
    Mr. Mark Ryan customed a 56cm cyclocross frame in our company 16th April 2012. We completed frame and sent to him on 23th May. After half a month, Mr. Mark Ryan told us the frame headtube is too bend to install fork. At beginnng I was surprised, because we have quality control before shipping. I told Mr. Mark Ryan the bending of headtube is in its tolerance. It shouldn't be a problem assembling. Why do I say it is in its tolerance. As most of people know, the titanium frame tube is very thin only 0.9mm thick. After heating/welding, it will slightly bent or ovaled. The frame manufacture have mould to control bending degree and they have a reamer to machine inner tube to prevent oval. Of course we cann't guarrantee 100% straight after welding. But we will make it in its tolerance. In this article, Mr. Mark Ryan said I told him its because headtube too long, the headtube bend. It's not true. I didn't say that. I told Mr. Mark Ryan because his downtube is very large (44.5mm) and headtube is very long 150mm. It's more easy to cause bending.

    I told Mr. Mark Ryan you can try other shop to install frame. Maybe different store have different method. In order to let Mr. Mark Ryan trust the frame, I told him we produce 1000 frames a year, none of them had headtube problem. Obivoiusly Mr. Mark Ryan didn't misunderstand me. He didn’t mention headtube on his article. It make others think me stupid to say none of problem for 1000 frames.

    After one day, Mr. Mark Ryan said he have tried 3 shops and all say frame is useless and insist we should make a new frame for him. But it is impossible for us to send a new frame without confirm previous frame is real usless. We insist to ship frame back first and promised Mr. Mark Ryan we will refund all expense including freight shipping back if frame realy usless. By the way, Mr. Mark Ryan quoted us 700 dollars for frame shipping back from Australia at begining. Finally the frame was shipped back by EMS which is only 100 dollars. Here is dispute. After we received frame, we installed it by our fork and headset. It worked well. We made photos to Mr. Mark Ryan and we even prepared a video how it is easily installed. But Mr. Mark Ryan insist full refund. He said we must did something after received frame. Actually we not. Mr. Mark Ryan sent a dispute to Aliexpress. We both provide evidence to Aliexpress. At last, we lost due to we have no vedio opening box. Aliexpress refund money to Mr. Mark Ryan. Mr. Mark Ryan didn't mention this part in his article. About bolts, we sent it with frame. Mr. Mark Ryan said he didn't see it after he received goods 20 days later. He made a dispute in Paypal too. But at last Paypal didn't support Mr. Mark Ryan. I thought the dispute have been settled down by two authority (Aliexpress and Paypal). But no. Mr. Mark Ryan wrote some bad words on Aliexpress store feedback and gave a very low value. He tried to hurt our name and reputation. Fortunately Aliexpress prevent it. Now Mr. Mark Ryan spread bad words through this forum. I cann't prevent it as internet is free speaking. And I won't do it either. Because I believe we still have many many customers who are happy with our products.

    Anita from Titan product
    Wow!

    Your first poast.


    And he was correct; you sent him a bent headtube.

    You even admit it.
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  8. #8
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    Anita at Xi'an Titan Product never mentioned only refunding shipping and frame cost 'if frame was realy usless'. She simply said they would refund return shipping and the purchase price.
    There were a lot of red flags waving in my communication with Anita after i notified them of the bent/warped head tube.
    Once they had the frame back they said they could 'fix it' but then later denied there was any problem with it. (Now they had CNCd the headtube out and replaced it methinks)
    Anita also admitted they would sell the frame elsewhere so they did not lose any money on the frame - poor bugger who buys it.
    Yes, i did get ridiculously large quotes from couriers to have the frame sent back but i was the one who pointed this out to Anita and it took me about 5 or 6 quotes before i finally found one that cost $120. Thank god. And i still haven't received this money back as promised.
    Good to see they admit if you give a low feedback score it doesn't get registered. No wonder they have a 100% feedback rating. I never wrote any words on the website only ticked the 1 star boxes.
    If anyone thinks i may be bending the truth i am happy to provide the full email dialogue showing the empty promises and blatant lies of Xi'an Titan Product.

  9. #9
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    Its interesting to note they do monitor these forums.
    Not happy when they get negative feedback though.

  10. #10
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    Have a look for yourself.
    Does this look like a usable head tube?
    If you look closely u can see the top of the head tube is bent/warped also.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrhino View Post
    Have a look for yourself.
    Does this look like a usable head tube?
    If you look closely u can see the top of the head tube is bent/warped also.
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    It's funny that Anita admitted it.
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  12. #12
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    Especially when she says 'we produce 1000s of frames, none of which have head tube problem'

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrhino View Post
    Its interesting to note they do monitor these forums.
    Not happy when they get negative feedback though.
    Methinks they have an automated google search for their name.

    I have one for my name.

    Check it out: http://www.google.com/alerts

  14. #14
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    Interesting.

  15. #15
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    It proves that they care about what is written about them in this forum.

  16. #16
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    When I had a custom frame made the builder pointed out to me that one of the effects of welding the top and down tubes to the head tube causes the head tube to bend (just like the photo). A good frame builder knows how to limit the bending so the frame is usable. When i got my frame the headset went in fine and the fork installed with no problem. Apparently whoever made that frame didn't know how to do it right.

  17. #17
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    Sorry to say, but what do you expect? It's made in China

  18. #18
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    Not only that but didn't have the quality control measures in place to pick it up before it was sent.

  19. #19
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    Sox, u do realize the majority of bikes on the road are made in China?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrhino View Post
    Sox, u do realize the majority of bikes on the road are made in China?
    I'm not sure about majority, but I know some of them are manufactured in China. And I'm pretty sure that big manufacturers have strict quality controls regardless where the products are made.

    Anyhow, sorry to read about your bad experience. I hope all is well and you get what you deserve from Xi'an Titan.

  21. #21
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    Currently Anita from Xi'an Titan Product is blackmailing me saying she will only refund me if i remove my posts.

  22. #22
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    This is what you say useless frame
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnitaZhang View Post
    This is what you say useless frame
    check out the uneven gap between the fork crown and headset cup in the first photo. This would indicate that the ends of the head tube are not perfectly parallel. What causes that? A head tube that is not straight.

    And I thought you promised that you would not be responding to this thread anymore. I seem to recall you saying you had more important things to do.
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    Last edited by mtnroadie; 07-19-2012 at 08:49 PM.

  25. #25
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    based on the photos provided, that frame appears to have obvious construction problems.

    the purchaser should be given a refund or a new frame.

    some high-caliber customer service on an issue like this would be enormously helpful to the company's image as a reputable firm and one worth doing business with.

    being contentious and arguing on the internet is only going to produce negative opinions.
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