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Experienced riders please help..

8K views 85 replies 17 participants last post by  pmf 
#1 ·
Hello everyone

I’m new to the forums and I’m searching for some advice on a couple of things..

First of all I’m looking for a new road bike. I’m thinking Endurance geometry as I have two herniated discs in my back. But I’m not sure what size to buy. It seems that I’m in between sizes 56 and 58. Is it better to make a small size fit bigger or a big size to fit smaller?

With a $3000 budget, what is the best endurance bike to buy? I’m looking at the Cannondale Synapse Carbon disc Ultegra or the Giant Defy Advanced 2. I’ve test ridden the specialized Roubaix, Trek Domane SL5, Giant Defy and the Cannondale Synapse. I’d like a bike that’s a bit more on the “race” end of the group. I really love to go fast and from what I can tell, the endurance bikes seem a bit sluggish. But with my bad back im thinking the endurance group of bikes will be the way to go.
The Cannondale Synapse and Giant Defy seem to be a bit faster... what are you thinking?
Thanks in advance!
 
#2 ·
Many will probably chime in soon, saying you need to go ride the bikes you are interested in, which I fully agree on. I think that an endurance style road bike sounds pretty good. With you already having back problems I would recommend a professional fitting on which ever bike you choose. It can be difficult to get a feel for a bike on a short ride. I would also recommend talking with the shop you are buying from and seeing if you can demo a bike for a few days. This is normal practice in my shop as long as we are able to get the bike the customer is interested in.
 
#5 ·
It is much easier to make a smaller frame fit bigger. With reduced steerer tube length it will also make the bike feel nimble.

In terms of comfort I have a Trek Madone and find the Isospeed works really well. I’d have no problem recomending the Domane which has same technology on front and rear contact points.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#10 ·
It is much easier to make a smaller frame fit bigger. With reduced steerer tube length it will also make the bike feel nimble.

In terms of comfort I have a Trek Madone and find the Isospeed works really well. I’d have no problem recomending the Domane which has same technology on front and rear contact points. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Try the Domane, it's sold a an endurance bike but is quick an comfortable, a lot of the faster riders in our group ride this model.

15 minutes is too short to make an informed decision, a great bike shop will let you take a 20 mile spin
 
#6 ·
I've ruptured L3/4 and L5S1 several times in the last 20 years for different reasons. The last was from riding a bike a lot while doing no back/core maintenance work. Now healed and muscles engaged I'm better than new. Very aggressive position and pain free for many years now...

So my advise is get your body healed then do a fit bike then buy whatever bike you want. You don't necessarily need to be restricted to an endurance bike if your body is healthy is the point. Buying an endurance bike while not addressing the real problem is not the way to do this.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Thank you everyone for replying and the wealth of information you are providing!

So what im getting out of all this is that I need to test ride these bikes more to find the one that "fits". With so many manufacturers with many different models, specs and how the shop sets them up out of the box. I couldn't possibly test all these bikes for 10-20 miles? Id also need to ride them all twice one in 56 and one in 58 (depending how the manufacturer sizes them) as I seem to be between sizes.

That is very encouraging, I appreciate the feed back! So I should get a fit before purchasing a bike? I thought that the fitting was to fit you to the bike?

Pontiac,

It sounds like you are going about this the right way. Unlike many new people who visit these forums and ask for bike buying advice, you are test riding bikes and getting a feel for what you like. This is good.

My question now is how many shops have you visited? If you already have a good shop you trust, then by all means, stick with them and work with them. Otherwise, it's a good idea to "shop for your shop" as well as shop for your bike. Has more than one shop determined that you are in between sizes? What is your height and inseam?


getting a good fitting is very important, I am not convinced that these expensive computerized bike fit programs are necessary. A good bike shop will give you a good fitting where they put you and your new bike on their trainer, watch you pedal and make adjustments here and there to dial in your fit just right. Be sure to let them know about your back issues. If all the shop will do is eyeball you and the bike (OK while you're just test riding), go to a different shop.

The Cannondale Synapse Carbon and Giant Defy Advanced series are both excellent bikes. You won't go wrong with either of these. I don't know what you meant by "the endurance bikes seem a bit sluggish". There are certain things that can give a bike one feel or another, but in the end, none of these bikes will be significantly faster or slower in reality. But in the end, you have to enjoy riding the bike and "feel" has a lot to do with that enjoyment. What i mean by sluggish, is that the bike doesn't seem to respond to the power i put to the peddles as well as others ive ridden.
Yes all 5 of the shops I have been to have said I was between sizes. However, each shop seems to have their opinion on what size I should get. I think they are just recommending the size they have in stock as each shop tells me different. One shop will say 56 another will say 58. One will recommend making a 56 fit and the other will recommend making a 58 fit. I am 6' tall with a 32 inseam.

A few random comments:

-Find a bike that fits. I doubt you are truly between sizes but if you are keep looking. But when looking at two sizes so close it's generally better to look at the stack you need. You can adjust both length and stack equally easy but too many spacers and weird angles is less desirable than a short stem. So given the bad back it's very likely the bigger size (due to taller head tube) is better for you if you are truly between sizes length wise.

-Ignore the marketing terms. Bikes fit or not regardless of what they are called.

-Assuming equal tires. No bike is fast or slow and just about any rider can get as aggressive as they will ever need on a bike called any Endurance bike. A lot of people get 'race bikes' for reasons you hint at only to never use the drops or bend their elbows. They could get as aggressive, and have the ability to ride more relaxed, on something marketed as endurance.

-Along the same lines as the previous comment. Yes, going fast has a lot to do with body position and aerodynamics. But all the aero in the world isn't going to make you fast unless you are comfortable (with the exception of short rides) so again just get the one that fits.

The bottom line is find a fitter you trust and have him or her put you on a bike that works and ignore what it's called. They only reason you should care about "race bike" or "endurance bike" is features and tires clearance.
Thank you for the info. I am referring to how the bike is responding to the power i put to the peddle. Some bikes seem to just go with less effort which makes them feel faster. But perhaps its just a fitment issue?

That's a good budget and any of the bikes you're looking at in that range will be excellent bikes. The differences between them all is very minuscule in quality or function. It'll really come down to which fit and feel best for you. Which bike shop treats you best. And which you find aesthetically pleasing.

Is that what you've read or what you've personally felt?

In short test rides it'd be really hard to tell which is faster. Especially without any recorded data. What might "feel" faster isn't necessarily faster. Were all the bikes running the same tire size and air pressure? A bike with over inflated tires with "feel" faster, even though it isn't.
Think about driving down the highway in a beat up '70's pickup truck. Driving 55mph feels fast. Then get in a new car with a smooth suspension and cruising at 80mph feels like you're barely moving. Well the same goes with bike tires. Really hard tires will make your bike feel like the '70's pickup.
You bring up very good points thank you. Im not sure what the tire pressures were. Might be the difference I was feeling..

Yep and to add: a "test ride" around a parking lot won't tease out many answers. Usually the wheels, tires, saddle and fit are different from bike to bike and your current bike if applicable. Attempting to compare bikes in this manner is laughable.

I can make useful conclusions about a "bike" only after maybe a couple weeks of riding. And even then my opinion of what I thought was good one week may change with fitness/fatigue the next.

Point? It's two triangles and two circles. If there was one bike that was heads and tails above the rest we'd all be riding it. Since this is not the case things like gearing, looks, how you like the LBS, disc v. rim, wheels and components are more important than brand and/or type of bike (endurance, cross, gravel, race, etc...).
I rode each bike a bout 15-20 minuets each over the span of a few weeks. There are soooooo many bikes and being between sizes I felt like I needed to ride both sizes..
 
#7 ·
Pontiac,

It sounds like you are going about this the right way. Unlike many new people who visit these forums and ask for bike buying advice, you are test riding bikes and getting a feel for what you like. This is good.

My question now is how many shops have you visited? If you already have a good shop you trust, then by all means, stick with them and work with them. Otherwise, it's a good idea to "shop for your shop" as well as shop for your bike. Has more than one shop determined that you are in between sizes? What is your height and inseam?

While I agree that getting a good fitting is very important, I am not convinced that these expensive computerized bike fit programs are necessary. A good bike shop will give you a good fitting where they put you and your new bike on their trainer, watch you pedal and make adjustments here and there to dial in your fit just right. Be sure to let them know about your back issues. If all the shop will do is eyeball you and the bike (OK while you're just test riding), go to a different shop.

The Cannondale Synapse Carbon and Giant Defy Advanced series are both excellent bikes. You won't go wrong with either of these. I don't know what you meant by "the endurance bikes seem a bit sluggish". There are certain things that can give a bike one feel or another, but in the end, none of these bikes will be significantly faster or slower in reality. But in the end, you have to enjoy riding the bike and "feel" has a lot to do with that enjoyment.


 
#8 ·
A few random comments:

-Find a bike that fits. I doubt you are truly between sizes but if you are keep looking. But when looking at two sizes so close it's generally better to look at the stack you need. You can adjust both length and stack equally easy but too many spacers and weird angles is less desirable than a short stem. So given the bad back it's very likely the bigger size (due to taller head tube) is better for you if you are truly between sizes length wise.

-Ignore the marketing terms. Bikes fit or not regardless of what they are called.

-Assuming equal tires. No bike is fast or slow and just about any rider can get as aggressive as they will ever need on a bike called any Endurance bike. A lot of people get 'race bikes' for reasons you hint at only to never use the drops or bend their elbows. They could get as aggressive, and have the ability to ride more relaxed, on something marketed as endurance.

-Along the same lines as the previous comment. Yes, going fast has a lot to do with body position and aerodynamics. But all the aero in the world isn't going to make you fast unless you are comfortable (with the exception of short rides) so again just get the one that fits.

The bottom line is find a fitter you trust and have him or her put you on a bike that works and ignore what it's called. They only reason you should care about "race bike" or "endurance bike" is features and tires clearance.
 
#9 ·
With a $3000 budget, what is the best endurance bike to buy?
That's a good budget and any of the bikes you're looking at in that range will be excellent bikes. The differences between them all is very minuscule in quality or function. It'll really come down to which fit and feel best for you. Which bike shop treats you best. And which you find aesthetically pleasing.

I really love to go fast and from what I can tell, the endurance bikes seem a bit sluggish. But with my bad back im thinking the endurance group of bikes will be the way to go.
Is that what you've read or what you've personally felt?

The Cannondale Synapse and Giant Defy seem to be a bit faster... what are you thinking?
In short test rides it'd be really hard to tell which is faster. Especially without any recorded data. What might "feel" faster isn't necessarily faster. Were all the bikes running the same tire size and air pressure? A bike with over inflated tires with "feel" faster, even though it isn't.
Think about driving down the highway in a beat up '70's pickup truck. Driving 55mph feels fast. Then get in a new car with a smooth suspension and cruising at 80mph feels like you're barely moving. Well the same goes with bike tires. Really hard tires will make your bike feel like the '70's pickup.
 
#11 ·
In short test rides it'd be really hard to tell which is faster. Especially without any recorded data. What might "feel" faster isn't necessarily faster. Were all the bikes running the same tire size and air pressure? A bike with over inflated tires with "feel" faster, even though it isn't.
Think about driving down the highway in a beat up '70's pickup truck. Driving 55mph feels fast. Then get in a new car with a smooth suspension and cruising at 80mph feels like you're barely moving. Well the same goes with bike tires. Really hard tires will make your bike feel like the '70's pickup.
^Very good points here.^
 
#13 ·
I would agree, feel sluggish isn't necessarily slower. Wheels can make a big difference in how 'sluggish' a bike feels just due the rim weight needing more effort to spin up. One of the bikes you thought felt sluggish as an example was used to win stage 9 at the TDF this weekend - the Domane.
 
#20 ·
Before you decide the 'endurance', decide what you want to do with the bike, race, climb , commute, club rides. And before you finish your diagnosis that an endurance bike will be best, why not go to a trusted bike shop and get fitted and see what they put you on. A good bike shop/fitter will both measure you, check for flexibility and ask about how you'll ride and use the bike. You may be right that an endurance bike is the best option but why not let the experts guide you there. What you are dong is almost like walking into a doctor's office, offering a diagnosis and telling him to fix you. Me, i'm on a road bike, not the most aggressive one out there, but it seems to work really well for me. I'm sure if I listened to the forums I might be on an endurance bike as well and not enjoy some of my rides quite as much.
 
#21 ·
Hi Trek thanks for your input.
That's pretty much the way it has been going at he shops around me. No one has really measured me. They just asked what type of riding Ill be doing, how tall I am and my budget. Would it make more sense for my to narrow down a brand and then find a good shop who carries that brand of bike? It seems the shops carry one, maybe two major brand bikes. Often they wont have my size in the spec I'd like. so they'll recommenced riding the bike they have in stock which might be a different model.
 
#30 ·
Normally no. This is how is works:

1. You determine the size frame that will FIT you. Generally this is done one of three ways: Either you have some money and resources like the size cycle to determine frame size. Or you rely on the shop you are dealing with to get the size close enough via experience. Or you've been doing it long enough you know your desired dimensions needed and therefore frame size.

2. If you don't do the size cycle you'd get a "bike fit". This is basically determining what that size cycle I keep talking about does but w/o the size cycle.

The majority of people rely on the shop and/or know their dimensions close enough. When I say dimensions I mean for me, for example, I know I need 75cm from the BB to top of saddle measured straight up the downtube; I need roughly 56cm from the tip of the saddle to the center of the bar (given a particular saddle); I do well with 11cm of bar drop; I seem to always have roughly 5cm of saddle set back (nose of saddle behind BB).

EDIT: just to add...I can make a 56 or 54 work. I've ridden a 52 Colnago but that was pushing it. I made it work but, I'm just too tall/long for most 52's to be ideal.
 
#29 ·
my colnago feels a lot faster with dura ace c-24's than with the former mavic krysium's. and its quite possible that i respond to that feeling by pedaling harder sometimes, but i know deep down the speed difference is very minimal at best, but i wouldn't give my my dura ace wheels and go back.
 
#31 ·
Ok, so it sounds like I can go either way with the size of the bike (if in fact I am between sizes 56-58) as either size can bike can be adjusted to my body during the bike fitting. Now I just need to narrow it down to a manufacturer. Then find the bike shop who carries that brand of bike.
 
#33 ·
No, it doesn't work like that. 56, 58, whatever does not mean the same thing across all bike makers and bike styles.
You can't just go looking for a 56 or 58 and expect to get a good fit. That number means different things for different makers and bike styles. For some the number is actually the seat tube length/

A particular frame either fits you or it doesn't. You can't just look at the number they assign to it.
 
#35 ·
No it doesn't sound stupid at all. I'm not sure how to answer but I'd say you should feel like you could ride it all day.
By the way, given your back history, you may discover that a road bike isn't for you at this time or not an 'off the shelf' set up one anyway. Basically you shouldn't notice any discomfort during a test ride. And slight imperfection will become big ones on longer rides.
 
#45 ·
I think you're only looking at half the story.

Frame size doesn't just match measurements. For example, pretty good chance your measurements are identical to some super flexible TDF pro (for arguments sake let's say they are). The by no means should indicate that same measurements = same frame for the both of you.

It's really sounding like you should find a fitter that knows what he or she is doing.
 
#53 ·
Here it is! I’ve got 200 brutal miles on it trying to find the right saddle. The stock seat was far to narrow and put a lot of pressure on my soft tissue. Folks I’m having a REALLY hard time finding the right saddle. I’ve tried over 30 saddles and two professional fits. I’m really getting discouraged. Please help!
 
#56 ·
I’ve tried over 30 saddles and two professional fits.
What do the "professionals" tell you? I'd think they'd have far more usable info than a bunch of anonymous people on the interwebs.

I’ve got 200 brutal miles on it trying to find the right saddle.
I'm having a hard time understanding how you've actually tested 30 saddles with only 200 miles. That only 6.6mi per saddle.
 
#54 · (Edited)
It's hard to get Internet help on a saddle, fit is really personal. Besides changing seats over and over, consider whether your shorts/bibs are part of the problem. Also, when you're just getting started there is going to be some unavoidable pain and adjustment...

PS There it is! Nice pic! BTW I found it a worthy investment to get the CycleOps front wheel stand when riding in trainer.
 
#60 ·
Thanks for the reply. I get that the saddle is a very subjective and personal issue. But after trying so many, I wonder if it has to do with how Im sitting on the seat. I feel like my hips are rotated forward putting pressure on the soft part behind the berries. I just dont know how to correct this problem. When I try to rotate back to sit on the sit bones and engage my core to stabilize, it feels so awkward. Im sure I couldnt ride more than a few minuets like that..

Yep the front wheel block is sure to come. This was just a quick setup to get me going..
 
#55 ·
Have you tried the Selle Anatomica? I know everyone is different, but that has nearly eliminated any numbness for me.
 
#57 ·
Let me just clarify that if it's nothing more than your sit bones hurting, that will go away or becone less with more and longer rides.

However, numbness is a serious issue and should not be ignored.
 
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