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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    You have never used sewups have you?
    You have never been inside a team car have you?
    (Irrelevant questions are irrelevant)


    No, they do not glue new tires to rims inside the moving team car for later use in the race. Whoever told you this lied. Or you're just making it up.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    You have never used sewups have you?
    I raced and trained on sewups for 15 years and I've glued hundreds upon hundreds of them thank you. Never in one million eons would I glue one in the back of a race team car and allow a rider to use it that same day. Properly glued tires take time. I think you have sewups and clinchers confused.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    So you're a tourist commenting about frame material on a posting obviously meant for sports cycling? And the "ride" of a material used to be important with 20 mm tires pumped to 160 psi. With 25 mm tubeless tires the tires do all of the ride quality. Or if you're that sensitive you can use 28 mm tires. Perhaps you should take your "news" elsewhere.
    Oh, so you not only have a reading comprehension problem, but now you're being an internet tough guy? The article applies to road frames as well as touring frames.

    My point to linking that article was in response to your claim that your Reynolds 853 frame is the best riding bike you ever had. Maybe so, but not because of the material. There are many factors which can make a ride smoother or harsher and the one which will have the most impact are YOUR TIRES.

    I agreed with you that it is silly to spend $13,000 on a bike, but hey, if it makes someone feel good, there will be a market for it. Carbon has become the go-to material for medium-high end bikes and whether we like it or not, it is what it is. As a result of mass consumption and production, carbon has come down in cost almost to where there isn't that big a price jump between an Al, CroMo or carbon frame. As I said, it is the componentry which pushes prices up. I have 7 bikes (including 2 carbon bikes) and have never spent more than $2,200 on a bike. The most expensive bikes I have ever bought are my 2014 full carbon Cannondale Synapse and my 2017 Reynolds 631 Jamis Renegade gravel bike - both were 105 groupos and both were $2,200.

    As far as tubeless, it is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. I get a flat less than once a year. I have seen people with tubeless tires get flats that weren't repairable and didn't seal. I felt sorry for the poor guy who had to call Uber while he and his bike were bathed in gooey sealant. The argument that tubeless gives you a nicer ride is offset by the fact that tubeless tires need stronger sidewalls and therefore will negate any of the "cushy advantage".

    As far as e-shifting, no thank you. As far as hydraulic disc brakes, while I wouldn't go out of the way to get them, my gravel bike has them and they do have very nice modulation. Your incident with them was an obvious case of user error.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    I buy Chinese deep section wheels and I have had ONE rim become delaminated.
    Your credibility in this thread just dropped a few more notches. Nuff said!
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 202cycle View Post
    I raced and trained on sewups for 15 years and I've glued hundreds upon hundreds of them thank you. Never in one million eons would I glue one in the back of a race team car and allow a rider to use it that same day. Properly glued tires take time. I think you have sewups and clinchers confused.
    I rode sew-ups for maybe 4 years. Pre-glued sew-ups simply pull over the old pre-glued rim that just had a flat. They even work better since they don't have to dry. If you are unaware of that you sure must have raced as a real expert and paid a mechanic to work on your bike. Maybe that is why there are so many second hand tubular carbon wheelsets on eBay for so little.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    What do these have to do with frame materials? Or are you just commenting... cause you have nothing to add
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tlg again.


    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tlg again.


    Let me see if I understand you correctly you think that I should give my street creds to a man who has a puppet as his ID and another who uses an emoji? Should I ask if you're old enough to use mommy's laptop?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    Let me see if I understand you correctly you think that I should give my street creds to a man who has a puppet as his ID and another who uses an emoji? Should I ask if you're old enough to use mommy's laptop?
    You're seriously concerned about what avatars people use? lmao.

    In case you missed it, you have no street creds here. It's not a gang. But it's clear when you have no argument, you attack others.

    And still.. you are just commenting... cause you have nothing to add. Who was it that said that?

  8. #33
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    Trolls taste like chicken.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Yup. He starts right out with a falsehood: "Titanium frames have roughly the same weight as CF." Simply not true. Note that I am on my second Ti frame, and if it got wrecked I would buy another, but I know full well that you can't make a comparable Ti frame to a CF frame at the same weight.

    Beyond that the OP puts a lot of words together but I'm not sure what is the point of it all. Ignoring the technical misperceptions, the argument for anything in particular is not clear.
    The smallest size Pinarello Dogma has a claimed weight of 1.75 lbs. The smallest size and lightest titanium frames are said to weigh about 2 lbs. Is that what you want to argue about?

    Even the smallest size Linskey which isn't a particularly light Ti bike is 3.5 lbs for the smallest size.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    The smallest size Pinarello Dogma has a claimed weight of 1.75 lbs.
    Who weighs their frames in lbs???
    Try some reading comprehension. He said a comparable frame. Carbon frames are light and AERO . You can't come remotely close to a comparable frame in Ti.
    (a Trek emonda is 640g)

    The smallest size and lightest titanium frames are said to weigh about 2 lbs. Is that what you want to argue about?.
    Who says? The guy who told you they glue sew ups in the back of team cars?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    This is totally crazy statement... my Di2 electonic was less than $4K, it's CF too!
    NOT one advantage? How's about never having to change cables?
    I assume you're talkin about SRAM's wireless electronic shifting. Great if it turns out that they aren't subject to interference. I don't know about that and it was my business for awhile. In general, you can have it fast (with low power) or you can have it secure. Pros ride most of the time in high gear and don't shift. In the hills with lots of shifting they don't have high power lines nearby. No big deal but it is something to think about.

    As for myself, it seems rather silly to have someone saying that they are horrified with having to turn an adjustment 1/4 turn every year or so to take up wear. And that is with my Campy which is the worse case with adjustments. DuraAce is always working. Though they are all getting less reliable shifting with compact gearing and a hill climbing 11-32. Of course I don't have any experience with the 11's and 12's since with a 10 speed I'm shifting two and three gears at a time in changing terrain.

  12. #37
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    I don't know what "headaches" you've had using tubeless tires but I haven't had headaches at all after the initial learning period. When you first install them they are slightly messy until you learn how to deal with them and then they are no problem if you use the proper sealants. Orange has to be replaced every 3 months and Finish Line is more or less permanent and you MIGHT have to add some additional after about the first three months and then you're OK. Like tube or tubular you have to maintain the pressure though it is lower and the rolling resistance of the tires are so much lower that even pro teams are moving over to them for their TT bikes. While I wasn't having flats using Continental Gatorskins the road feel was terrible and I was always afraid of losing traction. Using the Vittoria tubeless tires or the Continental GP5000TL's is GREAT.

    A pro mechanic told me that the only reason that they use tubulars is because they can change a flat inside the team car on the move since they have limited roof rack room and you can watch the coverage of the Grand Tours and see them leaning out the windows and replacing the re-tired and refilled tire in the available wheel rack. This is especially important now with different disk brake and axle diameter standards from team to team.

    As recreational riders we were using clinchers rather than the far better tubular tires because of convenience. Tubeless gives you tubular performance with even better convenience than clinchers because you never get a flat. Well, you can but it would take almost the destruction of the tire and that would stop you with any type of tire.

    A friend of mine had his C40 collapse on him and now has a carbon fiber phobia so he wants only metal everything on his bikes. He would allow carbon shifters but Campy no longer makes a Record triple and he and his wife ride the smallest gears possible which is a bit odd since he was a Cat A racer. Maybe he considers himself old and broken down at 60. In any case, going to Italy and being measured by Tomassini himself and having custom bikes made with Campy Centaur and Mavic top end wheelsets and shipped to this country through their official US dealership, assembled here and delivered to him was $3,000/bike new.

    While I'll grant you that putting electronic shifting and American deep section aero wheels with hydraulic disk brakes on a bike will shoot the price through the roof not a whole lot of people are willing to pay $3,000 for a bike, let alone $13,000. And damned if I can see one single advantage of electronic shifting.

    Disk brakes are a hazard as far as I'm concerned, My hydraulics put me over the bars on a hard descent when the front wheel hit a hard pothole and I did the natural thing and tightened my grip on the bars hard to avoid being thrown off. So the only advantage they seem to have is in rain where they clear the braking surface more rapidly. I do not purposely ride in the rain like a European pro is forced to do.

    I buy Chinese deep section wheels and I have had ONE rim become delaminated. The company sent me a new rim which I stupidly accepted. Though I'm a fair wheel builder, carbon wheels are NOT put together like aluminum rims. They are put together on fully automated machines using torque measurements and not distance as old aluminum wheels were. So while it takes me less than an hour to build an aluminum wheel it took me three days to build the new deep section carbon rim. What a pain! It should be noted that because carbon fiber rims have a large variation in the bed thickness/strength, unlike an aluminum wheel in which the spoke tensions are nearly equal the CF wheel can have very large differences in spoke tension.

    I have four sets of these wheels and that one failure on initial filling. The 50 mm deep clincher wheels are the best. They have almost no response to side gusts of wind. Maybe even less than a shallow section Campy aluminum wheel. The 55 mm deep tubulars were not safe - they did not have high enough spoke tension so I boosted it up and they are pretty good now. They do not wander around from insufficient spoke tension.

    You have to be aware that Continental GP5000's have such great traction that they wander a bit because of road irregularities even where it appears to be flat. The Vittorias do not do that since they have longitudinal tread on them. And they appear to have as good traction. (Be absolutely certain you put the Continentals on in the correct direction of rotation as noted on the sidewall).

    So you can spend a great deal of money on a bike but what are you gaining? The UCI race weight limit is about 15 lbs so most carbon fiber frames are built without serious regard to weight. So you can make an aluminum alloy, titanium or carbon fiber bike that all weigh nearly the same if you are that interested in weight.

    Assistant professor for the department of exercise and sport science at the University of Utah James C. Martin, Ph.D, put the weight of a bicycle to the test by measuring a rider's time on a 7 percent incline over 5 kilometers using a 15-pound bike (the minimum for racing as per the UCI rules) and the same bike with 5 pounds added. The difference in the climbing averages was about six seconds. That means that you can expect a mere 6 seconds over about 2 1/2 miles of 7 percent which is fairly steep. Around this country most people cannot climb at that sort of speed on that incline for 2 1/2 miles. Around here it is just a normal incline with "real" climbing at 10% and above. Although I can't go very far, I have done 1/8 mile of 24% and could actually coach people on a 16% incline. (This is on road bikes. On a full suspension 29er I found that I could BARELY climb a 24% in the lowest of gears because of the massive increase in weight and not at all on a CX bike since the super low gears it required would lift the front wheel causing the bike to spin around. This is why CX racers run and carry.)

    If on a normal incline a normal incline a 30% increase in weight makes nearly no difference in climbing speed who is fooling who about bicycle weights in the modern range? For the recreational rider, age and training makes FAR more difference than weight or number of speeds.

    For one thing you have absolutely no clue about tubular tires/wheels and have received some completely untrue information about them. If you want the facts feel free to ask me, I've been an actual pro team mechanic since 2004. I will answer any questions you have.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    I assume you're talkin about SRAM's wireless electronic shifting. Great if it turns out that they aren't subject to interference. I don't know about that and it was my business for awhile. In general, you can have it fast (with low power) or you can have it secure. Pros ride most of the time in high gear and don't shift. In the hills with lots of shifting they don't have high power lines nearby. No big deal but it is something to think about.
    lol

    You should stop trying to show off how little you know.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    You don't NEED a Colnago CLX or a Lemond Zurich.
    What are you riding if that seems of any importance to you?

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    What are you riding if that seems of any importance to you?
    I'm not the one lecturing people on what they don't need.
    As I said, ride what makes you happy. But you don't need all those gears. So don't be a hypocrite and tell others what they need

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    You're seriously concerned about what avatars people use? lmao.

    In case you missed it, you have no street creds here. It's not a gang. But it's clear when you have no argument, you attack others.

    And still.. you are just commenting... cause you have nothing to add. Who was it that said that?
    I didn't attack anyone? I responded in like manner. Perhaps you should actually look back through the string.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    For one thing you have absolutely no clue about tubular tires/wheels and have received some completely untrue information about them. If you want the facts feel free to ask me, I've been an actual pro team mechanic since 2004. I will answer any questions you have.
    Good, How many riders do you have on your team and how many spare wheels front and rear do you carry?

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    .......
    Aluminum frames also CAN last forever ..........
    Not according to my Materials professor at the engineering school where I received my engineering degree. Aluminum, by definition, ALWAYS has a finite life. You seem to know ugatz about everything you talk about in your screed. I am now that much dumber for wasting my time reading your drivel. Don't you have better things to do than post long-winded tomes on stuff which you are profoundly ignorant about?
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  19. #44
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    Good, How many riders do you have on your team and how many spare wheels front and rear do you carry?
    This doesn't have anything to do w/ any discussion in this thread but I said I'd answer anything. Generally 6 riders at any given race( AToC), sometimes 8. Mostly 6 for UCI races. I'd usually take 4 rears and 2-3 fronts. All tubulars. I've probably glued well over 1500 tubulars in the last 20-some years and I can say for sure you don't know the first thing about them. Nor do you have any meaningful knowledge of Di2.

    Troll.
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    It must be raining in San Leandro.
    Guys and Gals, just go ogle Tom Kunich. Ignore him, let this thread die.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    Though they are all getting less reliable shifting with compact gearing and a hill climbing 11-32. Of course I don't have any experience with the 11's and 12's since with a 10 speed I'm shifting two and three gears at a time in changing terrain.
    WTF are you talking about? Shimano mechanical shifting became much better with the advent of 5800/6800 and then 7000/8000 groupos which happen to be 11 speed. Of course you wouldn't know that since you have no experience with 11 speed groupos.

    Perhaps you need a hug?
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    WTF are you talking about?
    You can't question an armchair quarterback.

  23. #48
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    Looks like our friend here has a trolling history and a posting vacation history as well:

    https://forums.roadbikereview.com/se...archid=2395041
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Looks like our friend here has a trolling history and a posting vacation history as well:

    https://forums.roadbikereview.com/se...archid=2395041
    Bwahahahaha.... makes this thread even funnier!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kunich View Post
    I was sort of hoping that a materials scientist would chip in with the reason that CO2 leaves a tube somewhat faster than air (which is mostly nitrogen). I am not a chemist but an engineer.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Bwahahahaha.... makes this thread even funnier!
    Yup!

    What happened to your green emoji?
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



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