Klein Quantum Fitting Issue - Just Plain Uncomfortable
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  1. #1
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    Klein Quantum Fitting Issue - Just Plain Uncomfortable

    I have a Klein Quantum that I have had for a few years. The shop I bought it from went out of business right after I bought it. To make a long the bike is plain uncomfortable no matter what I do.

    My original intention was I wanted to get into cycling big time as I love to ride ever since I was a kid. Regardless the bike kills me. I took it to another cycling shop - High Gear Cyclery in Sterling, NJ. I had them fit me to the bike. The played with the seat hight, moved the seat back and forth and changed the stem for the handlebars.

    In a nutshell the guy explained that the top tube is long for my body so thats why they put on a shorter stem. I was to stretched out. So they put on a much shorter stem and its better but its still not great. He started talking about Klein's geometry on the bike and did not really understand what he was talking about. He said something about the geometry is not really relaxed.

    What I was wondering would going to one of these sloping down tubes help with this at all? My Klein was not cheap by any means but its sitting in my basement rotting as I cant stand riding it. Would hate to sell it to find out I made a mistake.

    Any input?

  2. #2
    classiquesklassieker
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    Here's the cynical way of looking at bike fit.

    Your position on the bike is determined by the location/position of your handlebar, pedals throughout the pedaling motion, and your saddle. These are the 3 contact points (counting both hands as one). The frame is just there to hold things together.

    Now imagine drawing a frame with sloping top tube, and a frame with horizontal top tube. Does that make much of a difference? No. What determines "reach", which seems to be the issue here, is the distance from your saddle to your handlebar.

    Now imagine a bike with a steep seat tube angle (from horizontal to the seat tube), and one with a "relaxed" seat tube angle. Keeping the bottom bracket in place, the former will require the seat to be a little further back relative to the seatpost in order to keep the same position. This makes the "effective top tube length" longer than the measured top tube length. This is what the guy was talking about.

    On one hand, unfortunately it is easier to make a small bike seem bigger than the other way around. On the other hand, bike fitting is not as straightforward as one thinks. Many people buy into the belief that "more upright position is more comfortable", and assorted other rumors. It's not always that simple.

    Since you provided no details whatsoever, I don't think anybody can comment about whether your setup can be modified to fit you, with any accuracy :-).
    Last edited by orange_julius; 05-14-2006 at 04:42 PM.

  3. #3
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    What Kind Of Details Do You Need? Measurements?

    Let me know as I am more than willing to get them.

  4. #4
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    I would invest a little time, and sorry a little more money. Pay a visit to some of your local bike shops and check into a bike fit. Find someone who seems to know what he is talking about, and doesn't hand you a line of shirt. Pay the $80-$100 to have a pro fit you to the bike. You may find the frame is just too large for you, but then again you may find it can be properly fit.

    I know shelling out more money doesn't help, but it will be worth the money if it becomes a bike you enjoy riding.

  5. #5
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    Fit clinic

    Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99
    Let me know as I am more than willing to get them.
    Measure your inseam: stand against a wall with your feet 6 inches/15 cm apart. Push the spine of a 1 inch/2-3 cm thick book into your crotch with significant pressure, and measure the distance from the book spine to the floor. Your saddle top to pedal axle should be 108-110% of the inseam measurement.

    Here are several frame fit calculators.

    http://www.zinncycles.com/fitsystems/default_ie.aspx
    http://www.bsn.com/cycling/ergobike.html
    http://www.coloradocyclist.com/BikeFit/index.cfm
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harart-frames.html
    http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/fra...ame_Sizing.htm
    http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
    http://www.wrenchscience.com

    For adjusting the fit of the bike, there are roughly five starting points:
    1. Seat height (top of saddle to center of pedal axle) at 108-110% of inseam.
    2. Saddle parallel to ground.
    3. Saddle fore/aft adjusted so that a plumb bob from the bony protrusion just below the kneecap passes through the pedal axle when the cranks are horizontal. This is known as KOPS (Knee Over Pedal Spindle)
    4. Front hub axle obscured by the handlebars when riding in your "regular" position (drops, hoods, or tops).
    5. Top of handlebars 1 to 4.5+ inches below the top of the saddle depending on your flexibility and size.

    These are all starting points for "average" proportioned people, and many folks like to move away from these starting points as they learn what makes them more comfortable, powerful, or efficient. For example, the KOPS position range is typically +1 to -2 cm, depending both on your personal physiology (long femurs tend to push the saddle back) and pedaling style (spinners move the saddle forward, pushers move the saddle back). You want to get the fit of the frame as close as you can, then do minor adjustments with the stem, seat post, saddle position, etc.

    A lot of this is personal comfort, and we all tend to adapt to a given position over time. For example, a given stem length may be right for you, but it may feel long at first. I use the "handle bar obscures the front hub" rule for my fit, but others claim better position (for them) with the hub in front of or behind the bar. Plus, if you look down without moving your head, you get a very different view than if you tilt your head to look at the front hub. I'm 6' tall and ride with 11.5 cm drop from saddle to bar, probably more than most people would like but fine for me. Some are suggesting zero drop from saddle to bars - it's about comfort, efficiency, and aerodynamics. No calculator is infallible, so look at the different results you get to see where there is consensus among them. I would suggest riding some miles (over 100 total, and over 500 would be better) and see if you adapt to a given position. There are no hard and fast rules, just general guidelines, when it comes to these things.

    Just as important as your size is your flexibility. If you have a stiff lower back, you may not be able to lean over and stretch out as much. If you are very flexible, you may get away with a longer top tube, with the stem in a lower position. Over time on the bike, too, you may become more limber, or at least become accustomed to being lower and stretched out. So, your first 'real' bike may not be anything like what you will want 5 years from now.

  6. #6
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    I didn't realize how bad my bike fit until I rode one that fit correctly. My advice is to try and ride a smaller bike or one with more equal geometry. Basically anything different. It seems the easiest way to pinpoint what you like and don't like.

    I would have never thought a different width bar would feel as good as it did without trying it out myself. Also, different frame materials make pretty big differences in ride feel. My brother in law has a Quantum and although it is too big I have ridden it and like the stiffness, but I can see how it would be too much for some folks.

    What size is your bike? How tall are you? What is your inseam? How would you compare your leg length to torso length?
    Tyler, you are by far the most interesting single-serving friend I have ever met.

  7. #7
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    The bike is 56cm. I am 5'11" and my inseam is 32" in normal pants. I have long legs and arms if that helps.

  8. #8
    classiquesklassieker
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    Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99
    The bike is 56cm. I am 5'11" and my inseam is 32" in normal pants. I have long legs and arms if that helps.
    No, this information is not nearly enough. At the very least, you need your "cycling inseam". You said that you want to learn more: do a search on bike fitting, and read Kerry Iron's post above.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange_julius
    No, this information is not nearly enough. At the very least, you need your "cycling inseam". You said that you want to learn more: do a search on bike fitting, and read Kerry Iron's post above.
    This info is not near enough to be the end all be all, but if the numbers were way off it could be a tell tale sign of a mis-sized bike.

    On a side note, I ride a 56cm, and have a steel 56cm 1990 Specialized Sirrus with full 105 group that I would be willing to swap in part if you want to try another bike.
    Tyler, you are by far the most interesting single-serving friend I have ever met.

  10. #10
    You're Not the Boss of Me
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    Well, the information isn't enough for perfection, but at 5'11" with a 32 inch pant inseam (so probably in the neighborhood of a 34 in. cycling inseam) and longer arms, etc., I'd be a bit surprised that the 56cm Klein feels so much too big. I'm wondering if some of it is just a mere function of flexibility more than body measurements.

    Also, how much below the saddle are the bars? Some folks feel too "stretched" when it is a function of drop, not TT length.

  11. #11
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    I am 5'10" with a 32" pant inseam and ride a 57cm Klein Quantum Elite very comfortably. Go to one of the fit calculators listed earlier in this thread and post the results here. Wrench Science is a good one. There is no reason that a 56cm should be too small unless you lack some flexibility or had some sort of injury that prevents you from getting fully bent over into a racer position on the bike.

  12. #12
    cmg
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    if you have a seatpost with a setback clamp and you can't move the saddle forward enough to get the knee over pedal spindle try using a straight seat post. any one of the calculators will get you close. experiment with a few of them.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for all the information. I am going to play with the information tonight after work. I have been stuck in meetings all day. Thanks again!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99
    Thanks for all the information. I am going to play with the information tonight after work. I have been stuck in meetings all day. Thanks again!
    Bear in mind that there is the current Klein geometry whch has been around for about 5 years. This is more conventional with seat angles that get slacker as the frame gets bigger.

    Older Kleins has a 74 degree frame no matter what the size. If you are riding a larger frame you may have a problem if you need to sit further back as this increases the reach.

  15. #15
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    I am having a similar problem. My 2002 56 Klein Quantum Race has an effective TT of 57.2cm. It came with a 100mm 10 degree stem. However it had a 100mm 7 degree which made the bars lower and a little longer of a reach. I kept having probems with shoulder and upper back pain on long rides. I switched to a Thomson 90mm 10 degree stem and it is a little better, but still too much of a reach. I really should have bought a 54 (which has 56cm effective TT). I am 5' 10" and have a cycling inseam of 33.6"

  16. #16
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    Did The Wrench Science Thing Last Night

    I put in all my measurements and did it twice to make sure I was right. Came back with interesting answers. It said that I should be on a 54/55 inch frame which suprised. My Klein is a 57. I thought it was a 56 but I was wrong. The year I got mine the sizes were 53, 55, 57, 59, etc... So actually according to the web site my frame is to big for me and thats why I am stretched out to much.


    Quote Originally Posted by lemmy999
    I am having a similar problem. My 2002 56 Klein Quantum Race has an effective TT of 57.2cm. It came with a 100mm 10 degree stem. However it had a 100mm 7 degree which made the bars lower and a little longer of a reach. I kept having probems with shoulder and upper back pain on long rides. I switched to a Thomson 90mm 10 degree stem and it is a little better, but still too much of a reach. I really should have bought a 54 (which has 56cm effective TT). I am 5' 10" and have a cycling inseam of 33.6"

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