Lynskey R230 or Lynskey Helix - Which Titanium bike
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  1. #1
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    Lynskey R230 or Lynskey Helix - Which Titanium bike

    Hi

    I'm interested to hear people's opinions about these 2 bikes. I want a great general purpose bike that is not going to be found wanting depending on which direction i end up taking.Having said that, Long term, I see myself riding longer distance events rather than criteriums.

    I'm 48, 195 pds/88 kgs and 5 foot 6 (167 cm). I'm losing weight fast from cycling and am currently riding 250 kms a week commuting and weekend riding. I am training up for a 280 km event in October and hope to have the new bike by then. I am hoping to be around 70kgs by then.

    I am currently riding a Giant Defy advanced which is nice but I suspect a little small for me.


    Has anyone ridden both of these bikes and have an opinion on their respective merits?

    Thanks

    S

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by sliedude View Post
    Has anyone ridden both of these bikes and have an opinion on their respective merits?
    Thanks
    S
    I own both bikes, My main ride was/is the Helix, my backup was a Breakaway/Rouleur. They were setup the same way, I realized that the Breakaway wasn't being utilized as much due to having it setup the same and I really wanted a ride that would be better for longer rides. The Helix is a great ride it's one of the earlier ones a bit more aggressive geometry and a 31.6 seatpost - I know when I've been on a hard road, the R230 is a bit more upright, the seat stays are more compliant, it is a much smoother ride. I use the R230 for general riding training, works great for Centuries as well as intervals. I passed the Breakaway on to my son as a more relaxed ride (as it was a size up from his race frame size).
    My recommendation for you is the R230 based on what you want to ride.

  3. #3
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    Re: Lynskey R230 or Lynskey Helix - Which Titanium bike

    I own a 2011 Helix and just love it. Great handling and smooth rides. The newer models have changed; 31.6mm seat post is now 27.2mm with an internal sleeve, oversized tapered head tube with internal headset and oversized BB.

    Just recently I bought a new titanium frame with the oversized head tube and BB. Compared to my Helix it really improves to ride quality. More stiffness, dampens vibrations better.

  4. #4
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    Uh, I don't think more stiffness equates to a better ride quality...

    OP, I'd do the R230 judging from your post. I have the R330, and it too would fit your bill quite well (they're nearly the same, different years).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apexrider View Post
    I own a 2011 Helix and just love it. Great handling and smooth rides. The newer models have changed; 31.6mm seat post is now 27.2mm with an internal sleeve, oversized tapered head tube with internal headset and oversized BB.

    Just recently I bought a new titanium frame with the oversized head tube and BB. Compared to my Helix it really improves to ride quality. More stiffness, dampens vibrations better.
    I wish they would have skipped the BB30 and gone to BB86.

  6. #6
    pmf
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    My wife just ordered a 350. We were considering the 230 and the 350. She wanted something with more aggressive geometry. Frankly, I'm glad it has a 27.2 post. I wish it didn't a stoopid press fit BB and integrated head set, but I guess that's progress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    My wife just ordered a 350. We were considering the 230 and the 350. She wanted something with more aggressive geometry. Frankly, I'm glad it has a 27.2 post. I wish it didn't a stoopid press fit BB and integrated head set, but I guess that's progress.
    Cool, the 3XX series are nice, son has a 330. While I like regular threaded BB's the BB86 puts the inserts (and bearings) further into the BB (improving the load path on pressed in system), if I do a new Lyskey frame, with the pressfit system, I'll try to get them to do the BB86.

  8. #8
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikerp View Post
    Cool, the 3XX series are nice, son has a 330. While I like regular threaded BB's the BB86 puts the inserts (and bearings) further into the BB (improving the load path on pressed in system), if I do a new Lyskey frame, with the pressfit system, I'll try to get them to do the BB86.
    I didn't know there was any choice when we pushed the button. I don't know much about pressed in BB. All my bikes are old fashioned. The mechanic at my LBS said that they have a tendency to creak and described them as a solution for a problem that didn't exist. She's fairly light (125 lbs), so I'm hoping that creaking won't be an issue. hat kind of stuff drives me crazy.

    To the OP -- what not do a 350? If money were no object, I'd get the 450. The Helix just looks too gimmicky to me. Is there any reason to twist those tubes around, except that it looks cool?

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    Titanium frame with a BB30? That's a fail.
    BB86 is a bit better, but still,..
    Meanwhile, Pinarello has gone back to threaded BB on their latest Doggie creation.
    Progress is not always forward.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Titanium frame with a BB30? That's a fail.
    BB86 is a bit better, but still,..
    Meanwhile, Pinarello has gone back to threaded BB on their latest Doggie creation.
    Progress is not always forward.
    The change has sound reasoning look at 4:15
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbT38SiWV1s
    But as mentioned I would have gone to BB86 which would have up'ed the weld options more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I didn't know there was any choice when we pushed the button. I don't know much about pressed in BB. All my bikes are old fashioned. The mechanic at my LBS said that they have a tendency to creak and described them as a solution for a problem that didn't exist. She's fairly light (125 lbs), so I'm hoping that creaking won't be an issue. hat kind of stuff drives me crazy.

    To the OP -- what not do a 350? If money were no object, I'd get the 450. The Helix just looks too gimmicky to me. Is there any reason to twist those tubes around, except that it looks cool?
    A BB86 would be custom, given her weight I don't think you will have any issues.

    As to the Helix, the 350 has helix chain stays, it's more than a gimmick the twists do add stiffness.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeI5NcvuUnI

    I wouldn't put the OP on a 350, not what he is looking for ride wise. The 230 has nicely swayed seatstays, reminiscent of some of the Litespeed frames, that will absorb some road noise.

  12. #12
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Titanium frame with a BB30? That's a fail.
    BB86 is a bit better, but still,..
    Meanwhile, Pinarello has gone back to threaded BB on their latest Doggie creation.
    Progress is not always forward.
    Thanks for the advice! That's helpful. I just cancelled my order.

  13. #13
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    The R230 has the tried and tested std BSA68 BB, if it's a concern.
    An ultra rider in my area is using a custom geometry R230.

  14. #14
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    Interesting discussion!

    Here's something additional info on frames by Kirk Framworks:Kirk Frameworks Custom Bicycles - frame flex and bicycle design

    A few key takeaways.
    - it's difficult to separate the different flexes in a metal frame, i.e, it's hard to make a metal frame compliant in one direction and yet stiff in another. It's always a compromise. (Carbon frames allow for better tuning here).

    - frame flexing is actually a desired thing, to some extent.

    That's my main takeaways.

    Now regarding the Helix twisting. Hmm, personally, I have to call "weirdo". Sometimes when you see something, and if it's good looking, your eyes and heart instanstaly say "wow, I want". But for the Helix, I got the opposite feeling. It one of those "acquire taste" or "only a mother could love" sort of look. Maybe because when I think of titanium bikes, I think of classical looking bike, and the twist of the Helix is just too weird. Anyway, the torsional rigidity of the Helix stems mainly not from the helical twist, but from the square-ish nature of the tube (which is then twisted). It's the "square" characteristic of the tubing that give the Helix much of its increased torsion, not any magical twist. I would like to see Lynskey sitffness data regarding a square tube and their helical tube.

    Another thing to think about is that square tubes are harder to weld and easier to crack. Lynskey is a top notched maker so they know how to weld. But still this doesn't change that fact that square tubes are easier to crack than a round tube.

    Honestly IMO, if you're looking to buy titanium, then stiffness should not be on your highest priority list. If stiffness is what you want, then go carbon fiber all the way. Plenty of carbon frames out there that will spank even the stiffese Ti frame in the stiffness department. You buy Ti for comfort, for the classic feel, for the timelessness, and Ti always feel better to the touch than plastic carbon fiber. That's what I see in my Ti bike. I have never had a desire to say "boy I wish my Ti bike was stiffer so I can hammer out of the saddle up that 15% grade"

  15. #15
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    Re: Lynskey R230 or Lynskey Helix - Which Titanium bike

    In this bikeradar article Mark Lynskey sais this about the Helix shape:

    “A basic understanding of shapes and forces tells you that beams are designed to resist bending, and cylindrical shapes do a good job of resisting torsion loads,” Mark says. “Conversely, beams do a poor job with torsion and round shapes don’t resist bending well.

    "The down tube and top tube of a bicycle frame have both torsion and bending happening at the same time during a ride. The benet of the Helix shape is that it’s what could be called a compound shape. This means it’s a good combination of a beam and a cylinder. It resists both bending and twisting very well.”

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    Thanks, that is helpful

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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Another thing to think about is that square tubes are harder to weld and easier to crack. Lynskey is a top notched maker so they know how to weld. But still this doesn't change that fact that square tubes are easier to crack than a round tube.
    The Helix isn't a welded square tube, if it was it was cost you a whole lot more, it's die formed, the edges are not sharp/crisp. The R4XX is a folded and welded tube.

    In regards to square tubing, if I take some square tubing and fold it in half, the first place it fails is in the side planes, they buckle allowing the tension side to stretch/tear and compression side to fold. I've seen plenty of round tubing struts that have developed cracks that had to be end drilled and doublers installed.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sliedude View Post
    Thanks, that is helpful
    You're welcome

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    Quote Originally Posted by sliedude View Post
    I'm 48, 195 pds/88 kgs and 5 foot 6 (167 cm).
    I am currently riding a Giant Defy advanced which is nice but I suspect a little small for me.
    Unless you are currently on the XS I seriously doubt that the frame is too small for you.

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    Unfortunately it is an XS. I should have got an S i reckon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sliedude View Post
    Unfortunately it is an XS. I should have got an S i reckon.
    the XS has an effective top tube of 51.5 cm, and this is too small for you? What is your stem length?

    I'm 5'7", and 51.5cm effective top tube is what fits me, and for most frame makes, I ride an XS. Size S has an effective top tube of 53 cm. To go from 51.5 to 53 would be a big jump. I used to have a bike with a 52.5 cm ETT and I would need to run a very short 80mm stem, and even then, I still felt stretched out. So unless your back/torso is abnormally long, I think size XS should fit?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikerp View Post
    The Helix isn't a welded square tube, if it was it was cost you a whole lot more, it's die formed, the edges are not sharp/crisp. The R4XX is a folded and welded tube.

    In regards to square tubing, if I take some square tubing and fold it in half, the first place it fails is in the side planes, they buckle allowing the tension side to stretch/tear and compression side to fold. I've seen plenty of round tubing struts that have developed cracks that had to be end drilled and doublers installed.
    yeah.
    but honestly I don't understand the helix. If I'm buying ti, then I'm buying it for comfort and its timelessness factor. If I want outright torsional and bottom bracket stiffness, then it will be carbon fiber. But I guess it's a different stroke for different folk thingie. I don't tend to buy "one size fits all" bike, it never does.

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    Re: Lynskey R230 or Lynskey Helix - Which Titanium bike

    When it comes to comfort, tire pressure and rims play a greater role than the frame material. A higher bottom bracket stiffness doesn't necessarily mean a harsh ride. A titanium frame just adds some magic that other frame materials don't have and gives you the feeling of riding on carpet.

    This is just based on my personal experiences with titanium and carbon bikes that I've used over the years.

  24. #24
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    I also own both bikes. Only difference is the Helix is newer with the 27.2 seatpost. I ride both bikes tubeless with DuraAce wheels. I've ridden both on 100+ mile rides. To be honest, both ride great and I don't see/feel much of a difference.

  25. #25
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    Lynskey R230 or Lynskey Helix - Which Titanium bike

    I have the R230 and it replaced a Giant Defy Advanced. To be fair, I have more than one bike but if you told me I could only keep one bike it would be the Lynskey R230. Daily training, centuries or even racing, a great bike.
    2013 Lynskey R230. Campy Chorus 11 speed.
    2013 Giant Defy Advanced SL. Ultegra DI2 11 speed.

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