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    New vs upgrade!

    Wasn't sure exactly where to put this but I will start here. I'm contemplating an upgrade in my road bike situation. I have it narrowed down to two options.

    1 - Upgrade my '04 LeMond Zurich (hybrid frame, steering, down and chain stays are steel, top, down tubes and seat stays are carbon) with Ultrega triple chain rings (never really liked the triple but bought it for rides with big climbs) to an Ulttrega compact double. Would need new wheels, drive train, total would be about $1200.

    2 - Buy a '20 Trek Domane that has the same Ultregra compact double drive train but full carbon frame, wider tubeless ready wheels/tires, disc brakes. New list price $3799.

    The Trek would be a bit lighter overall, but only by about 1 to 1.5 lbs. Never had any issues with caliper brakes but disc brakes seems to be the wave of the future. Big price difference between #1 and #2. Question is, is there $2600 worth of difference. The Lemond frame set is in excellent shape and don't see any reason it shouldn't last another 10 years. Anyone done a drive train update on an older frame?

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    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivanthetrble View Post
    Question is, is there $2600 worth of difference.
    Nobody can answer that but you. Nobody knows your financial situation. Nobody knows what impact $2600 is to you. Nobody knows what kind of riding you're doing.

    You're not even comparing two similar bikes. A modern bike with wide tires and disc brakes is going to ride vastly different than a 16 yro bike with I imagine 23mm tires.

    Did you ride the Domane? The only answer to your question is to ride one and decide if it's worth it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivanthetrble View Post
    Wasn't sure exactly where to put this but I will start here. I'm contemplating an upgrade in my road bike situation. I have it narrowed down to two options.

    1 - Upgrade my '04 LeMond Zurich (hybrid frame, steering, down and chain stays are steel, top, down tubes and seat stays are carbon) with Ultrega triple chain rings (never really liked the triple but bought it for rides with big climbs) to an Ulttrega compact double. Would need new wheels, drive train, total would be about $1200.

    2 - Buy a '20 Trek Domane that has the same Ultregra compact double drive train but full carbon frame, wider tubeless ready wheels/tires, disc brakes. New list price $3799.

    The Trek would be a bit lighter overall, but only by about 1 to 1.5 lbs. Never had any issues with caliper brakes but disc brakes seems to be the wave of the future. Big price difference between #1 and #2. Question is, is there $2600 worth of difference. The Lemond frame set is in excellent shape and don't see any reason it shouldn't last another 10 years. Anyone done a drive train update on an older frame?
    I was not aware of any Zurich model that was a mix of steel and carbon. I thought the Zurich was Reynolds 853 except for the fork?

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    Valid points! You are correct, currently the Lemond has 23mm tires. If I upgraded the Lemond it would include new wheels and tires that would likely be 28mm wide. At least the mechanic at my LBS said wider tires would be an option. Typical riding does not usually involve any huge climbs but some of the annual rides in Oregon/Washington include some decent mountain climbing (Mt. St. Helens and Mt. Hood rides). Seems like a compact double would give me about the same climbing gear as the triple and maybe one more gear on the large side. The extra $2600 is a bit more of a bite now that my work has been cut back due to Covid but a new bike is still doable. I have taken a Domane for a short test ride but I find it hard to get a real feel for a new bike by just riding it around the block. It would be nice to be able to take it out and do a climb or two but I realize most bike shops don't want to lend out their bikes for such things.

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    I still have a '98 Zurich that was 853 Reynolds steel and it is still probably my favorite bike. Not sure if it is just what I am used to but the ride of steel is nice. I tried a full carbon Trek back in about '07 and while they are very light, there was a "dullness" to the ride. I think they only made the hybrid Lemonds for a year or two. Things have changes so much since I bought my last bike I feel I have a lot to learn about the new technology, thus this thread. Wasn't sure if it was completely crazy to spend $$ to upgrade a frame that is 16 years old. Don't really know if disc brakes are all that much better. Tubeless tires are intriguing but I do wonder what you do if you get a puncture large enough that the sealant doesn't seal it? Do you carry a tube with you "just in case"?

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    JSR
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    I have a Lemond Buenos Aires (steel, Ultegra triple) and a 2017 Trek Domane (Ultegra, hydraulic disc). I live in The PNW.

    I still like the Lemond. It jumps when I ask it to and the handling is kind of similar to the Domane due to the fairly relaxed geometry, especially since I replaced the OEM stem with something shorter with more rise. I have 25cm tires on it which is the maximum possible with fenders - and you need fenders for much of the year. At that, only the PDW metal ones will just barely fit, or you have to do some clever McGivering. I sometimes think about upgrading the drivetrain, but itís not enough of a priority with the Domane in the stable.

    The Domane is a better bike, IMO. The more upright position suits my more elderly (age 67) body. I can run 32cm treaded tires with fenders all winter long. The disc brakes are a godsend on wet days and inspire confidence on big descents. The IsoSpeed couplers are not noticeable, except that at the end of a Century I donít feel like Iím going to die.

    Also Trek has completely sucked me in to their integration technologies. The DuoTrap speed/cadence sensor is stealthily embedded in the left chainstay. The Blendr system for mounting computer, light, and/or gopro really cleans up the cockpit. The hidden tool kit on the new models - well, i would really like to have that.

    FWIW, the Trek site has the Domane SL6 at $2,999 right now. Edit: my bad on the price, google took me to the 2019 model, which is on sale and out of stock!

    One last thing. After having ridden discs when you get on the Lemond on a sloppy day you will instantly realize the abuse youíre giving youíre beloved Zurich. My rims lasted one season in Eugene after 10+ years on SoCal.
    Last edited by JSR; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:25 PM.

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    Considering the 316% difference in price, you're not going to see a 3x increase in your speed. And that pound and a half saved-that's roughly the weight of one waterbottle. Will losing one waterbottle move you to the front of the group? No. You could skip dessert for a week and lose that much weight.

    As long as the LeMond fits, it sounds like a keeper. Upgrade the drivetrain. I'm not sure why you have to upgrade the wheels unless they're trashed, so you may be able to save a good chunk of money there.

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    I had upgraded the wheels a long time ago to Bontrager Race X Lite and apparently they have had issues with small cracks where the spokes meet the rim. I have 3-4 little cracks that means I would be looking at new wheels anyway. Yeah, the weight savings is pretty much insignificant.

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    Or buy the Domane used and keep the Lemond, buy a nice used wheelset for at and you have 2 bikes. N+1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Or buy the Domane used and keep the Lemond, buy a nice used wheelset for at and you have 2 bikes. N+1
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    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Or buy the Domane used and keep the Lemond, buy a nice used wheelset for at and you have 2 bikes. N+1
    Or try and find a '19 Domane leftover.
    Buying a '20 Domane in the spring of '20 generally ain't gonna be a great deal.
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    A test ride should tell you all you need to know. Try to use the same tires and PSI you've been using so you know you are not just testing riding the feel of tires.

    I can tell you that I like my moderately priced steel bike a lot more than the carbon wonder bike I had before it. But they are not the two you are comparing.

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    I recently just did an upgrade on my 2006 Lemond Versailles , I have always loved the ride of this bike and it fits me extremely well . I installed new Ultegra compact groupset and was able to get a freehub to upgrade my wheelset , total price with me doing the work was just over $1000 Canadian.
    I also own a 2017 Merckx San Remo and a 2012 Litespeed L1 . Love the Lemond for its smooth ride , the Litespeed is my go too bike for a fast paced ride . The Merckx for some reason is my least favorite and by far the most expensive .

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    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    A test ride should tell you all you need to know. Try to use the same tires and PSI you've been using so you know you are not just testing riding the feel of tires.
    That's ridiculous. The Domane comes with 32mm tires. You're not going to pump 32mm tires to the same pressure as 23mm tires. I run 32's 40-50psi lower than 23's

    If you want to compare the two bikes, you should ride them as you would ride them. The advantage of a modern bike is wider tires which can be run at lower pressures. That is how you're gonna ride it, so that is how you should test it.
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    The LBS has a '19 Domane in my size and I have strongly considered it. Main drawback for me is the issues I have been hearing about with the press in bottom brackets and squeaking. The '19 have press in bearings and the '20 have threaded. Small differences and not sure the threaded will be any better/quieter but I have a few friends with Treks with press in bearings and they all complain of noise.

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    This is exactly the type of thing I was hoping to hear. Someone who has done an upgrade like this. There are a few things that I would not be able to do with an upgrade (disc brakes, really wide tires, etc) but I do find it interesting that your most expensive bike is your least favorite. Maybe I'm old and set in my ways but I do like the ride of my old steel frames...................but at the same time feel like I may be missing out by not keeping up with all the new tech. A couple of guys I work with have the latest and greatest and they all rave about electronic shifting and disc brakes. Most seem a little more on the fence about tubeless tires. One guy told me he was on a ride with a guy running tubeless tires and he got a flat that wouldn't seal. He said the tubeless tires are very snug fitting on the rims and it took them forever to get the tire off, a tube in, and tire back on.

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    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivanthetrble View Post
    The LBS has a '19 Domane in my size and I have strongly considered it. Main drawback for me is the issues I have been hearing about with the press in bottom brackets and squeaking. The '19 have press in bearings and the '20 have threaded. Small differences and not sure the threaded will be any better/quieter but I have a few friends with Treks with press in bearings and they all complain of noise.
    I wasn't aware they switched to threaded. A good improvement.

    What's the price difference from the '19 to '20?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    That's ridiculous. The Domane comes with 32mm tires. You're not going to pump 32mm tires to the same pressure as 23mm tires. I run 32's 40-50psi lower than 23's
    No one said to use the same PSI as 23 tires with 32 tires. I said "same tires".

    The only way to isolate the different feel of two frames is to use the same tires. Otherwise you're just comparing tires.

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    Not small! The '19 is $2799 and the '20 it $1k more. Main differences appear to be the '20 has a threaded BB and the little downtube storage space. Other than that they are pretty much the same.

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    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    No one said to use the same PSI as 23 tires with 32 tires. I said "same tires".
    No, you said
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Try to use the same tires and PSI you've been using so you know you are not just testing riding the feel of tires.
    The only way to isolate the different feel of two frames is to use the same tires. Otherwise you're just comparing tires.
    If you're using 23's at 100psi and 32's at 55psi, the difference is so huge, it's not going to matter what tire you're using. Ride will be different. Grip will be different. Comfort will be different.

    He's comparing the bikes. Not the frames. The only way your point is valid is to put the same 23's on the Domane. Which would be silly. That's not how he'd ever use it.
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    That's a classic. You quote me were I said "same tires" to support your saying I didn't say "same tires"


    "He's comparing the bikes. Not the frames. The only way your point is valid is to put the same 23's on the Domane. Which would be silly."

    You think it's silly. I don't. Whatever. Personally if I'm going to spend thousands on a frame I want to feel how different that frame is not how different different tires are.

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    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    That's a classic. You quote me were I said "same tires" to support your saying I didn't say "same tires"
    OMG. I never said "you didn't say same tires"
    You said same tires AND PSI.

    I quoted you to show the part you excluded.

    Play semantics all you want. But you said "same tires and PSI you've been using"
    The point is, running the same tires and PSI on those two bikes would be ridiculous.


    Personally if I'm going to spend thousands on a frame
    He's buying a bike, not a frame.

    I guess he shouldn't use the brakes during the test ride either since one has rim and the other disc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    OMG. I never said "you didn't say same tires"
    You said same tires AND PSI.
    Yes I did say "same tires and same PSI" I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you didn't see I said "same tires" (and PSI) when you mentioned that you run 32mm tires 40-50 psi lower than 23 tires because no one even hinted at using 23mm pressure with 32s so figured you didn't see where I said "same tires" so wanted to clear that up.

    But you couldn't see that decided to turn it into an argument instead.

    Whatever, I should have known better than to respond to someone just looking to argue and attack people.

    If you don't think using tires and PSI one if familiar with in order to get a feel for a new bike that's fine. Enough with the childish games just to argue over essentially nothing though.
    Last edited by Jay Strongbow; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:24 PM.

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    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Whatever, I should have known better than to respond to someone just looking to argue and attack people.

    Get real. I didn't attack you.

    You're the one arguing. I'm trying to help the guy out.

    I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you didn't see I said same tires (and PSI) when you mentioned that you run 32mm tires 40-50 psi lower than 23 tires because not one even hinted at doing that.
    The Domane comes with 32mm tires.
    What pressure would you recommend he use while test riding the bike? Surely not the same as he uses with 23's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    What pressure would you recommend he use while test riding the bike? Surely not the same as he uses with 23's.
    Again, "same tires and PSI you've been using" is what I said. If you don't think that's a good idea to use tires and PSI one is familiar with for testing a new bike that's fine. Why you keep harping on copying the PSI one might use for 23 to 32 is a complete mystery to me because I didn't even hint at that.

    I said use what he has been using so he can feel the different in the bike not just the difference in the tires. Again if you don't think that's a good idea fine. But enough with turning what I said into something else just to argue about nothing.

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