Pinarello Dogma 2 $16,500 - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange_julius View Post
    Here's a great website CyclingIQ where I got it from.
    Princes, thieves and make-believe | Pinarello fights for its name «
    From that article ..."Representatives from Pinarello’s authorized Australian and New Zealand distributors both verified they had seen painted, and unpainted, Pinarello Prince and Dogma copies in their respective markets.

    “It’s hard to pinpoint” according to Armstrong Sport, in New Zealand. “They are pretty convincing fakes. However, the headtube profiles are different, and the seatposts are round (on the fake Dogma’s).”.......


    Yes, they're right!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFcyclist View Post
    From that article ..."Representatives from Pinarello’s authorized Australian and New Zealand distributors both verified they had seen painted, and unpainted, Pinarello Prince and Dogma copies in their respective markets.

    “It’s hard to pinpoint” according to Armstrong Sport, in New Zealand. “They are pretty convincing fakes. However, the headtube profiles are different, and the seatposts are round (on the fake Dogma’s).”.......


    Yes, they're right!
    Also, side-by-side photos of real and fake here.
    https://forums.roadbikereview.com/3534613-post159.html

    One poster, "Joe.90", claims he's ridden both. Wonder if he'll share further comments.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange_julius View Post
    Also, side-by-side photos of real and fake here.
    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/3534613-post159.html

    One poster, "Joe.90", claims he's ridden both. Wonder if he'll share further comments.
    Actually, I remembered wrong. The poster claims he can't tell the difference. But how are we to believe him or not?

    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/3541626-post168.html

  4. #54
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    2 of them...

    Funny thing... today I thought of this thread.

    There were two Dogmas with DI2 on our ride today, one large white and one much smaller black one. Paint was really nice on the black one.

    I liked my Pinarello, but it was one quarter of the cost of one of these....

    Colnago Master Athena 11 / CAAD10 3 / Cannondale Tandem / Civia Loring / Ibis Mojo

    Nothing is free.

  5. #55
    Daft Punk built my hotrod
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    That Chinarello DogPoo is classic. Absolute classic! Whoever thought of that is a genius.

    I'd bet that if you put Chinarellos and Pinarellos up against each other in a blind test, nobody could tell the difference in ride quality.

    But hey, one's "cutting edge".

  6. #56
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    "If you take for example our Allez bikes, they're entry-level but these frames are stiffer than the frame that Levi Leipheimer used to win the Tour of Germany a few years ago."

    I wonder how true that is.

  7. #57
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    Or really what that means... Does "stiffer" mean "better" or "faster" or "a better riding bike" or "more wins" or or or... What exactly are they trying to say?

    I mean really...

    Every model year we see the statistics on how much the new model outperforms the old ones. 13% stiffer. 6% lighter. infinity% more vertically compliant while being laterally stiffer.... This means that, hypothetically, if we continue along the same trend, in over 10 years these bikes have gotten over 100% stiffer. Are we really seeing a 100% improvement?

    Two bikes I think of as excellent riding CF race bikes of yore: Colnago C40 and Look 585. Two great riding bikes. Has "stiffness" really made newer bikes "better" than those, and made anyone a better rider? Even at the pro level the times have not improved. The fastest TdF was Lance in 1999. Didn't LeMond have the fastest TdF ITT in 1989?

    I mean REALLY!?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dajianshan View Post
    Or really what that means... Does "stiffer" mean "better" or "faster" or "a better riding bike" or "more wins" or or or... What exactly are they trying to say?

    I mean really...

    Every model year we see the statistics on how much the new model outperforms the old ones. 13% stiffer. 6% lighter. infinity% more vertically compliant while being laterally stiffer.... This means that, hypothetically, if we continue along the same trend, in over 10 years these bikes have gotten over 100% stiffer. Are we really seeing a 100% improvement?

    Two bikes I think of as excellent riding CF race bikes of yore: Colnago C40 and Look 585. Two great riding bikes. Has "stiffness" really made newer bikes "better" than those, and made anyone a better rider? Even at the pro level the times have not improved. The fastest TdF was Lance in 1999. Didn't LeMond have the fastest TdF ITT in 1989?

    I mean REALLY!?
    I think "stiffness" is not nearly precise enough. We should distinguish between "reactivity" and "harshness". The use of "stiffness" in English is similar to the use of "hot" to describe food. Is it temperature hot, or spicy hot?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxRomana View Post
    Stupid stuff that people with too much money and too little taste do.

    Yes. That's an Alfa Romeo. In a General Lee paint scheme.


    Now that's cool. Love the color. The flag is probably just a big sticker anyway. I'd drive it.
    San Antonio, Texas

  10. #60
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    Calling people with more money, nicer bikes, bigger houses, whatever, calling them "stupid" says more about the person doing the name-calling than anything else.

    I know a couple of people with S-class Benz's and none of them are stupid.

    This site is becoming a cesspool of jealous resentful posters. The same posters making the same post over and over again in every frikkin' thread...thank god for the ignore button.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinelli 82220 View Post
    Calling people with more money, nicer bikes, bigger houses, whatever, calling them "stupid" says more about the person doing the name-calling than anything else.
    Nobody is doing that. I'm sorry that you don't understand what should be patently obvious.

    Time and Pinarello are both expensive. One is worth the price, the other is not. Nobody is saying having an expensive bike is silly. You don't know what posters are riding, so maybe you should think twice about calling others "jealous or resentful". They could be riding far more expensive bikes than you.

    Paying $100k for an S-Class Benz, that's fine. What I am saying is that paying $100k for a Honda Accord, well, that's stupid.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxRomana View Post
    Nobody is doing that. I'm sorry that you don't understand what should be patently obvious.

    Time and Pinarello are both expensive. One is worth the price, the other is not. Nobody is saying having an expensive bike is silly. You don't know what posters are riding, so maybe you should think twice about calling others "jealous or resentful". They could be riding far more expensive bikes than you.

    Paying $100k for an S-Class Benz, that's fine. What I am saying is that paying $100k for a Honda Accord, well, that's stupid.
    But aren't we talking here of at least a Honda Accord that is lowered, with spoilers, special paint, and logos all over it?

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange_julius View Post
    But aren't we talking here of at least a Honda Accord that is lowered, with spoilers, special paint, and logos all over it?
    Absolutely. Don't forget the fuzzy dice and undercarriage lighting made of nanoalloy. In purple. Tastefully done, of course.

  14. #64
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    I guess that means the SL4 with Dura Ace Di-2 I just ordered a silly purchase too.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewitz View Post
    I guess that means the SL4 with Dura Ace Di-2 I just ordered a silly purchase too.
    Depends on what you paid for it.

  16. #66
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    The so called 'free market' system

    I'll confess, I recently bought a new (but) 2 year old FP7 frame, build up she's a beauty! I always wanted a Pinarello and now I have one.

    That said, I think a point overlooked by some of the posters is that large companies will distort the market in order to increase their margins on products. Apple, Garmin, Pinarello are but a few of those who do so...simply because they can.

    When the fundamental laws of supply and demand are artificially manipulated at our expense...well, then I think we should care.

    Good discussion.
    Leonard

  17. #67
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    If people were to ride the "best value" bikes for them, then most would ride $1500 bikes. But then we would not be called "enthusiasts" but "frugal value seekers" and where is the fun in that?
    Lighten up people and maybe put some of this energy in making some money so you can too buy a $16k Pina and help our sucky economy recover.

    To the person who made the analogy between the SL550 and the Honda, the SL550 fits more accurately the comparison you are trying to make with the Pina so you need to come up with a different example; just saying......
    With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcgriz View Post
    the SL550 fits more accurately the comparison you are trying to make with the Pina so you need to come up with a different example; just saying......
    Only to those who buy into the marketing hype and are too lazy to do the research. Just saying...

    I say this as Pinarello and a Time owner.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFcyclist View Post
    I'm not even sure what "60HM (High Modulus?)" means. I look at the table on this article: Sounding Tech to Sell Bikes | Argonaut Cycles


    Toray carbon M60J: www.toraycfa.com%2Fpdfs%2FM60JDataSheet.pdf
    Or Tensile Modulus = 60msi
    Thank you for posting this link.
    Putting it in my toolbox.
    And i always wondered why there isn't some universal standard for carbon MFG. ala 7005 aluminum, 4130 chromoly, etc etc.



    On a WHOLE other note, if i was wealthy I'd probably get a Lamborghini just because.......
    ........and probably the most expensive bike they make, just because.

  20. #70
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    If I was wealthy I wouldn't drive a Lamborghini, or ride a 16k bike, or live in a giant mansion, because I would feel like a serious asshat doosh tool. But hey, that's just me. Just sayin'.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by foofighter View Post
    how much of that 16k is the Campy EPS gruppo? Because if I remember the dogma frameset is $5500 or so...that being said if you have 16k to blow and you love your Italian bikes do it!

    This kind of spending is definitely for those with a lot of disposable income, I certainly wouldn't tell a Ferrari driver around my part of the OC that he over paid for his car that gets him from point A to point B the same way as the $7k Kia. You cant put a price on someone's wants and desires. All this stuff about high tech this and that are just RATIONALES for spending that kind of money on a bike that you actually have to pedal to move. It's a free market economy and if they have the means I'm not going to question it. I will look admirably at their bike and smile when I drop them on my $600 steel Nashbar bike Help our economy.
    Pinarello Dogma2 Di2 frame cost $6600 & Dogma2 Di2 Bob is $6900

  22. #72
    Daft Punk built my hotrod
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    Seven thousand dollars for a frameset mass-produced in Taiwan. Not saying it's not a great looking frame, but that's just silly. You can get hand made custom frames for considerably less.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxRomana View Post
    Seven thousand dollars for a frameset mass-produced in Taiwan. Not saying it's not a great looking frame, but that's just silly. You can get hand made custom frames for considerably less.
    According to Pinarello and Wrench Science, the Dogma 2 frame is Made in Italy. I do know a lot of the other frames from Pinarello are Made in Taiwan. It's the same with any other brand like Colnago, C59 & EPQ are Made in Italy, M10 and other Colnago's frames are Made in Taiwan.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyL88 View Post
    According to Pinarello and Wrench Science, the Dogma 2 frame is Made in Italy. I do know a lot of the other frames from Pinarello are Made in Taiwan. It's the same with any other brand like Colnago, C59 & EPQ are Made in Italy, M10 and other Colnago's frames are Made in Taiwan.
    Dogma 2 is NOT Made in Italy. I wish people would stop these kinds of lies. Dogma 2 is made by Carbotec in Taiwan. I've been to the factory outside of Treviso. They just paint and "finish" them there. Please stop this "Pinarellos are Made in Italy" nonsense. All carbon Pinarellos are made in Taiwan. Fausto has admitted this already. It's been posted a million times.

    I am not saying there is anything wrong with made in Taiwan. They make top-notch stuff. But marketing it as "Made in Italy" is a lie.

    The Colnago C59 is indeed Made in Italy. The rest of the line are made in Asia.

    Hope this FAQ clarifies this. From Pinarello's site:

    "Our frames are made in Far East, where the mass production of raw frames is based. The following production phases, such as painting and assembling, are completed in Villorba, Italy, in our factory. "

    CICLI PINARELLO S.p.A.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxRomana View Post
    Dogma 2 is NOT Made in Italy. I wish people would stop these kinds of lies. Dogma 2 is made by Carbotec in Taiwan. I've been to the factory outside of Treviso. They just paint and "finish" them there. Please stop this "Pinarellos are Made in Italy" nonsense. All carbon Pinarellos are made in Taiwan. Fausto has admitted this already. It's been posted a million times.

    I am not saying there is anything wrong with made in Taiwan. They make top-notch stuff. But marketing it as "Made in Italy" is a lie.

    The Colnago C59 is indeed Made in Italy. The rest of the line are made in Asia.

    Hope this FAQ clarifies this. From Pinarello's site:

    "Our frames are made in Far East, where the mass production of raw frames is based. The following production phases, such as painting and assembling, are completed in Villorba, Italy, in our factory. "

    CICLI PINARELLO S.p.A.
    EU laws state that 60% of the 'value added' must be done in the country in order for it to be considered 'made' there. Since they pay first world salaries to paint it vs. 3rd world salaries to actually make it they can put that shiny little 'Made in Italy' sticker on there.

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