Specialized Venge Elite 2017. frame changes vs Specialized Allez Race 2014.
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  1. #1
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    Specialized Venge Elite 2017. frame changes vs Specialized Allez Race 2014.

    Hello,

    I need a "little" help with size of Specialized Venge Elite from 2017.
    At first, my hight is 178 cm (I think that is 5'10") and my inseam is around 83 cm.
    My saddle is at 744 cm from BB to top of saddle on Specialized Allez Race M2, size 56" and from 2014.
    Today I was sold my old Specialized Allez Race M2 2014. because it was really too big for me, too long top tube, long reach and I was try to compensate large frame with 80 mm stem but after few years of fighting with too large bike I was sold it today.
    Now I was thinking of buying Specialized Venge Elite from 2017. model and in size 54". I can get it for really small price.
    Problem is that Specialized models of road bikes around 2014 was really great for my size in 54" but now I see that Specialized is changed their sizing and now from their size guide I'm with my 5'10" or 178 cm for 56".
    I really don't want to have too big bike but I don't need something small and my question is is anyone of you ride Specialized Venge Elite 2017. with my or similar size like mine in 54"?
    Like I said, Allez from 2014. was really great for me in size 54" but today, on models from 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 they put me from their size guide at middle of 56".

    Here is Specialized Allez Race M2, 2014.:

    https://www.specialized.com/us/en/allez-race/p/50452

    And here is Specialized Venge Elite, 2017.:

    https://www.specialized.com/sv/en/venge-elite/p/129243

    Their size guide say this for models from 2016 and newer:

    54cm 5'7" - 5'9" 170 - 175cm
    56cm 5'9" - 5'11" 175 - 180cm

    Source:

    https://www.cyclestore.co.uk/contentPages.asp?pageID=62

    This is their old size guide:

    54cm 5' 8" - 5' 10" 173 - 178

    56cm 5' 10" - 6' 0" 178 - 183

    Thanks for all your help friends riders!

    P. S.

    Only diferent thing on Venge Elite that I want to buy when is compared to that one on Specialized page is Ultegra instead of Shimano 105 and brakes are Taktro Lightweight.
    And I will for now use my old Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels.

  2. #2
    'brifter' is a lame word.
    Reputation: cxwrench's Avatar
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    All you need to worry about are:

    Reach

    and

    Stack.

    Compart the two and get the frame that is closest to what works for you.
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  3. #3
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    that recommendation is outta whack
    I'm 5'7" and there is not way I'd want an Allez size 54 (based on their rec). I've tried a buddy's Allez in 54 and it definitely felt big!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    that recommendation is outta whack
    I'm 5'7" and there is not way I'd want an Allez size 54 (based on their rec). I've tried a buddy's Allez in 54 and it definitely felt big!
    I'm your height and feel the same, I ride a 52.
    I work for some bike racers
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  5. #5
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    Thanks, but I need Venge, not Allez.
    I'm in doubt because for me Allez in 54" and from 2014 is great for my 5'10 or 178.
    They was making some changes after 2016. and on Venge (and Allez) for models after 2016. they put me in the middle of 56" (on models from 2014. I was for 54" and 54" was really great for me).
    Please can someone look links that I was posted for Allez from 2014. and for Venge from 2017.
    If size of that two bikes is similar, I can buy Venge without worries.
    I was 100% sure that I need 54" Venge and now I was see that they was change their size guide and now they put me in the middle of 56".

    Allez Race 2014:

    Reach: 387 mm
    Stack: 547 mm
    Top tube lenght: 548 mm
    Seat tube lenght (BB to top): 500 mm
    Head tube lenght: 145 mm
    Stand over height: 798 mm

    Venge:

    Reach: 386 mm
    Stack: 543 mm
    Top tube lenght: 547 mm
    Seat tube lenght (BB to top): 507 mm
    Head tube lenght: 140 mm
    Stand over height: 789 mm

    From that, Venge is little smaller frame, 100 mm lower stand over height, 1mm smaller reach, 3 mm smaller stack, 1 mm smaller top tube, 5 mm smaller head tube...

    Is that from numbers huge diference between old Allez and that Venge?
    If that Allez is great for my size, will that Venge be ok for me?

    Here is links to booth bikes:

    https://www.specialized.com/us/en/allez-race/p/50452

    https://www.specialized.com/sv/en/venge-elite/p/129243

    I don't have too many choices around me for road bikes...small town and 99% of people are riding MTB.

    Thanks one more time for all help!

    Maybe someone is riding Venge or Allez from 2016. and never models and with my hight...

    P. S.

    I was contacted Specialized and now they told me this:

    "A Venge in size 54 is recommended for between 168cm and 175cm, with size 56 being 175cm to 183cm.
    At 177-178cm tall, our rough bike size guide would place you on a size 56 Venge."

    Last edited by Code001; 05-26-2019 at 03:50 PM.

  6. #6
    ngl
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    Are you buying the Venge from the internet or locally; new or used? If locally and used why don't you take it into your LBS and have them determine if it's the correct size and determine its condition and value?

  7. #7
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    If you can't determine from those numbers that those frames are nearly identical I don't know what to say. It's pretty much useless asking someone 'near' your height to tell you what they think...their preferences might be completely different from yours.
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  8. #8
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    Unfortunately I can buy online in that size and that bike is used in great condition.
    He is around cca 800 km far away and I can't try it.
    This owner is 175 cm and I'm 178 cm.
    My only option is maybe to go on 3 hour ride and try some other Specialized in 54". Problem is that they have only Allez in 54 but maybe I can try to compare that new Allez with that Venge because from their size chart I'm even for new Allez for 56" (not for 54" like on old models).

    I don't have too much choices around me.

    Maybe for people is that numbers identical but I don't know what to do and that's why I was ask here for advice and I'm trying to find did someone here is using Venge Elite in my size and in 54".

    One more thing, that Venge Elite is not from 2017., it's from 2018. but geometry is identical to 2017 model.

  9. #9
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code001 View Post
    Unfortunately I can buy online in that size and that bike is used in great condition.
    He is around cca 800 km far away and I can't try it.
    This owner is 175 cm and I'm 178 cm.
    My only option is maybe to go on 3 hour ride and try some other Specialized in 54". Problem is that they have only Allez in 54 but maybe I can try to compare that new Allez with that Venge because from their size chart I'm even for new Allez for 56" (not for 54" like on old models).

    I don't have too much choices around me.

    Maybe for people is that numbers identical but I don't know what to do and that's why I was ask here for advice and I'm trying to find did someone here is using Venge Elite in my size and in 54".

    One more thing, that Venge Elite is not from 2017., it's from 2018. but geometry is identical to 2017 model.
    If the numbers are nearly identical they're nearly identical. 2-3mm difference. What is the problem?
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  10. #10
    ngl
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    I think the OP's problem is that he doesn't know what his required Stack and Reach is and he doesn't want to pay a Fitter to get it. In addition, there is little chance I'd buy a used bike off the internet (or driving 800km) not knowing the condition or whether it fit me correctly.

  11. #11
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    I'm inclined to agree with ngl's assessment.

    I'd like to ad that the OP's complaint is too long a reach, requiring a very short stem considering the frame size.

    He could size down to a 54 but he'll only gain 9mm of reach. And I also say a 56cm frame for a 5'10 rider should be about right, even considering his inseam so I'm surprised his current frame doesn't fit, especially after looking at the comparison links provided.

    I suspect a fit problem with the OP that needs to be ironed out before purchasing that next bike. Otherwise just buy the 54 and learn through the miles whether it was the right decision.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngl View Post
    I think the OP's problem is that he doesn't know what his required Stack and Reach is and he doesn't want to pay a Fitter to get it. In addition, there is little chance I'd buy a used bike off the internet (or driving 800km) not knowing the condition or whether it fit me correctly.
    I'm talking about the frame stack and reach, easily found on the Specialized geometry chart. If they're within 2-3mm all the way round, there is no mystery. Set the new bike up like the old bike and go ride. You don't have to go to a fitter to get these numbers, they're readily available on the internet. If the 2014 Specialized whatever fit the OP really well all he has to do is find the current bike that really close in Stack & Reach and set that up the same way.
    I work for some bike racers
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  13. #13
    ngl
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    I'm talking about the frame stack and reach, easily found on the Specialized geometry chart. If they're within 2-3mm all the way round, there is no mystery. Set the new bike up like the old bike and go ride. You don't have to go to a fitter to get these numbers, they're readily available on the internet. If the 2014 Specialized whatever fit the OP really well all he has to do is find the current bike that really close in Stack & Reach and set that up the same way.
    I agree with you that the bike stack and reach numbers are on the Specialized site. I reread the OP's posts (there's a bit of a language barrier...and maybe it's just me) and see where he stated he owned a 2014 56cm Allez that he thought was too big and he also owned one in size 54cm and thought that it fit him great. So yes, all he would have to do is understand what these numbers mean and then use these numbers from the 54cm bike if it (indeed) fit him correctly. I don't think he does. I guess my point is why not get fitted and verify what these correct numbers are, plus have correct (seat, handlebar, stem) numbers so he can set any bike up properly in the future.
    Last edited by ngl; 05-28-2019 at 02:59 AM.

  14. #14
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    I think OP should get the 54 and put a 110-120 stem on it, done.
    Just make sure the steerer has some room left for 1" of spacers.

    I have a sneaky feeling that a 56 will be againt too big for him (since his last 56 was definitely too big already).

  15. #15
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    Sorry, but unfortunately there is really a little problem about communication since my English is not a native language.
    My old Allez Race 2014. was in size 56".
    Size guide from 2014 year say that 56" is for people with hight between 178 cm and 183 cm and 54" was for 173 cm to 178 cm and I'm 178 cm.
    That was my first road bike, I was all my life on MTB but last few years I was riding only Allez.
    From first day, reach on bike was too big and last owner of Allez left a 80 mm stem so I left it too.
    With 80 mm stem my elbows is almost locked out and that's why I was riding almost all the time on drops because drops was little closer then hoods and it was more confortable for me riding on drops in this situation (I was using Specialized default handlebar with small 75 mm reach).
    Even with that small 80 mm stem, reach was not good and I was always have a feeling that I will be better on some frame with shorter top tube and smaller reach.
    Stand over height of 56" Allez was relative ok (my inseam is 83 cm or 839 mm and stand over height of bike is 816 mm) but I'm not sure that I have too much free space between legs when I stand over center at top tube.
    I really don't have problems with that height, my saddle height was around 745 mm from BB to top of saddle.
    Andother problem was KOPS, my knee was always too much at front of top tube and maybe I can setup KOPS with buying new saddle or with seat post witn 20 mm offset but then I don't know how I will reach hoods.
    About bike fit, it's not problem in money, main problem is I do not have a place to do it in my close and further surroundings.
    I was try 54" Allez from 2014. on a very short ride and it was feel much better with normal stem. It was short ride and I will be lying if I can tell you if there was 100 mm or longer stem but I'm 100% sure that stem was not 80 mm like on my 56" Allez and bike was more confortable.
    Now I was send email to Specialized about sizing and what they say what size I need for model of Secialized Venge from 2018. and they told me that I'm for 54", even for new Allez from them I'm now for 56".
    That's why I'm here and why I ask for advice because I can't see any drastical difference between geometry in 2014 and 2018 but there is some small difference in numbers and angles. That's why I was here post links to booth frames and maybe someone see something that I don't see.I'm realite new in all this with road bikes and I don't want to make another mistake because I can afford to buy wrong size of frame.
    With my size, I'm on plenty other brands between size M and L or between 54" and 56". Only with new Specialized size guide I'm in the middle of 56" and that's confusing me because geometry is almoust the same like old one and on old size guide I was on top of 54" and now I'm in the middle of 56".
    And one more thing, I have one store who have Specialized bikes (around 3 hour ride with car) and I was send them email about my problem and for first time ever they told me if I'm between sizes it's better to buy bigger frame!? All other people is say that if you are between sizes that is better to buy smaller one and now official Specialized store say totally different thing.
    That store have only few Specialized road bikes and all of them is only entry level Allez.
    If I go to them and if new Allez is ok in size 54" will that 2018. Venge be ok in same size because there is I think only small difference between that two geometryes?
    I'm sorry one more time for all this confusion, language barrier etc. but this is my only source of useful information because like I said, all people around me is riding MTB.

    I will post links one more time.

    Size guide from 2014:

    https://www.specializedconceptstore....ng_2014_UK.pdf

    Size guide for 2016 and never models:

    https://ibd.specialized.com/media/wh...nuItemId=29183

    Specialized Allez Race M2, 2014:

    https://www.specialized.com/us/en/allez-race/p/50452

    Specialized Venge Elite, 2018:

    https://www.specialized.com/sv/en/ve...=240049-129243

    Here you can see my only pictures that I have on my old 56" Allez with 80 mm stem, maybe from pictures somone of you can see problems with size:

    https://imgur.com/7yNiOjC

    https://imgur.com/uN5OZp9

    https://imgur.com/Ez5zzfL

    https://imgur.com/JFsLG6u

    On this link, between pictures you can see elbow position and I can't have anything even close with my last 56" frame:

    https://www.ludd.ltu.se/~torger/bikefit/

    Plenty of people is riding in this position but for me even with small stem that is science fiction because I can't get to that position with this long top tube on 56" frame:

    https://imgur.com/PlZWDuW

    Thanks people on your help!
    Last edited by Code001; 05-28-2019 at 11:26 AM.

  16. #16
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    I'd have to charge an hourly rate to go through all that information, sorry.

    TL, DR
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