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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Hmmm, I'm not sure I could balance the bike with a 34-42 for any length of time. How many mph/kmph is that?
    Geez not being able to balance under 3mph sounds kinda hazardous. MTBs come with 32-50 all the time, and people manage to keep those upright.



    ...is trackstanding a rare skill among roadies? Serious question.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post
    Geez not being able to balance under 3mph sounds kinda hazardous. MTBs come with 32-50 all the time, and people manage to keep those upright.



    ...is trackstanding a rare skill among roadies? Serious question.
    Plus the default setting for stopped on most Garmins is 3 MPH.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    At a 90 cadence, with 700x25c tires... A 0.8 ratio for 9.2kph
    90 rpm at 5.75 mph according to bike calculator. Not bad, considering 6 mph is typical climbing speed on the steepest grades.

    What's it like trying to maintain a 90 rpm cadence while barely able to eek 6 mph out of the grade? The weight against gravity is the same. Every time I go into the 28 on a climb my speed slows down and the legs pick up the same cadence, almost as hard.

    I can't work at 90+rpm at 6 mph much more efficiently than spinning 42-23 at 13 mph, and I get to the top in half the time. . So I'm resigned to overcoming gravity stroke by purposeful stroke, 60-75 rpm, knowing legs will recover at the top.

    Do riders actually reach 90 rpm in 34-42 at 6 mph? That would quickly end up being hard work for my legs!
    Last edited by Fredrico; 09-21-2018 at 10:02 PM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post

    Do riders actually reach 90 rpm in 34-42 at 6 mph? That would quickly end up being hard work for my legs!

    Did it today. Bonked on a 4000' dirt road climb with frequent 12-16% pitches. It feels stupid, but it hurts less.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post
    Did it today. Bonked on a 4000' dirt road climb with frequent 12-16% pitches. It feels stupid, but it hurts less.
    I hear ya.

    But hey, those pitches add up, and the air starts to get stingy around 4000', no? Would you have bonked if you'd kept cadences low enough for the legs to recover?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    I hear ya.

    But hey, those pitches add up, and the air starts to get stingy around 4000', no? Would you have bonked if you'd kept cadences low enough for the legs to recover?
    Nah i just totally didn't bring enough food. Needed 3x as much. I was making literally half my FTP with my normal perceived effort. Felt awful! Having to push harder on the downstroke hurts more than having my feet spinning around faster.


    My best performance is around 80-90 rpm. Anything in that range works fine. I'll push a taller gear and grind it out if i'm just chilling, especially if my legs aren't fatigued. On flat terrain it takes a fair bit of distance and holding a pace before i'll creep up to a higher cadence to maintain that effort.

    Shrug.
    Last edited by bubble; 09-21-2018 at 10:50 PM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post
    Nah i just totally didn't bring enough food. Needed 3x as much. I was making literally half my FTP with my normal perceived effort. Felt awful! Having to push harder on the downstroke hurts more than having my feet spinning around faster.


    My best performance is around 80-90 rpm. Anything in that range works fine. I'll push a taller gear and grind it out if i'm just chilling, especially if my legs aren't fatigued. On flat terrain it takes a fair bit of distance and holding a pace before i'll creep up to a higher cadence to maintain that effort.

    Shrug.
    Yep, that was it. Ran out of gas.

    Sure, around 80-90 rpm the aerobic fibers can go full tilt. That's true in any gear the legs can take up to 90 rpm! 90 rpm is where Hinault said the legs start to "follow the crank around" and stop "jamming" on the downstroke and trash out the knees. Pros would do fixed gear track in the winter to relearn the perfect pedal stroke.

    Amazing how one can squeeze out the same power on the downstroke in a deliberate, precisely executed "cranking action" easing smoothly into the downstrokes with no bumping on the saddle. The legs do much better over the ride and aren't as sore that night.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Hmmm, I'm not sure I could balance the bike with a 34-42 for any length of time. How many mph/kmph is that?
    you're kidding. I do much steeper climbs on the MTB with a 26-50. 34-42 on a 16% isn't bad. 20% is always bad, one near my home about 200 yards at 20% (after a 6-10% section for a km), and my prev house had a 250' driveway at 20%, and I am overweight, but at least not walking

    for a real athlete (not me) in Hawaii there is the road up from Waipaio, at around 40%! nasty stuff. but the kids do it. I looked down it and said no.
    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...aio+hill+climb
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post
    Geez not being able to balance under 3mph sounds kinda hazardous. MTBs come with 32-50 all the time, and people manage to keep those upright.

    ...is trackstanding a rare skill among roadies? Serious question.
    I can spin in the 4mph range OK. Once I get below 4mph, I'm in the scary balance range. Below 3mph and I'm off the bike.

    Yeah, my mountain bike is an older triple with 22-34, but I don't think I've ever used the lowest combo.

    Trackstanding is not a skill I have. I've tried to do it, but can't hold for that long.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I can spin in the 4mph range OK. Once I get below 4mph, I'm in the scary balance range. Below 3mph and I'm off the bike.

    Yeah, my mountain bike is an older triple with 22-34, but I don't think I've ever used the lowest combo.

    Trackstanding is not a skill I have. I've tried to do it, but can't hold for that long.
    It's interesting. I started riding mtbs as a big fatso, and steep trails are the norm here. It was either pedal @ 3mph or blow up and walk. 15 years later and i'm great at trundling along, as is anyone here decent on a mtb. Need that slow pace to recover between technical sprints.

    It seems crazy to me to not be able to pedal 1mph or trackstand... but how would you develop those unnecessary skills?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Nah, the gap between the 17 and 15 is too big, no matter what chain ring you're in. Air resistance at speed requires one tooth gaps on the cogs smaller than the 17. That 16 is essential.
    Hear, hear.

    36x29 (52/36 and 12-29 11 speed) here, with a cassette that straight from 12 to 17. Could use a 32 for the steepest Alpine climbs (take that stinging Col du Pré (12 km long with 7 km a touch under 10% in the middle part) as an example, but it's ok, ref. Tim Krabbé.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post

    It seems crazy to me to not be able to pedal 1mph or trackstand... but how would you develop those unnecessary skills?
    Practice, practice, practice??
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post

    It seems crazy to me to not be able to pedal 1mph or trackstand... but how would you develop those unnecessary skills?
    The former I can presently do. The latter? Nope. I could perhaps learn it but not without a lot of blunt force trauma and lacerations to my body with appropriate levels of bleeding.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    The former I can presently do. The latter? Nope. I could perhaps learn it but not without a lot of blunt force trauma and lacerations to my body with appropriate levels of bleeding.
    Well heck, its a balance skill rider can practice at stop signs, etc. Unclipping is such a drag, most of the time unnecessary.

    I can't track stand for more than 2 or 3 seconds, so take evasive action left or right or make little circles waiting for traffic to clear. The gear I'm in is irrelevant. Easier to make small balance corrections in a bigger gear, actually. Less leg movement.

    Paris-Roubaix riders leave their small gears at home, preferring larger gears to roll over the cobbles. Provides better balance, shock absorption, easier on the whole body. They've got 44 and 45 tooth inner chain rings instead of 39, certainly not 34. Its a pretty flat course. They're not "spinning" over those cobbles but "running." The legs support the upper body weight at times more than the saddle.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Well heck, its a balance skill rider can practice at stop signs, etc. Unclipping is such a drag, most of the time unnecessary.
    A drag, really?? How much trouble is it to unclip? Look at it this way, it's good ankle exercise.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    A drag, really?? How much trouble is it to unclip? Look at it this way, it's good ankle exercise.
    Once you have the skill it would be annoying to not be able to do it. If you don't have the skill it's a non-issue.

    I don't tend to trackstand at red lights cuz it's more work (i'd do it all the time when i wasn't good at it), but being able to come to a stop and wait 10 seconds for traffic to clear is really nice.

    It's also nice to be able to come to a stop and do a 90* turn. You have the mobility of a pedestrian rather than that of a tiny car. It's a wonderful commuter skill.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    A drag, really?? How much trouble is it to unclip? Look at it this way, it's good ankle exercise.
    Yeah, be careful not to twist your ankle out of whack! Finding the damn cleat and clicking in is also a PITA.

  18. #68
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    Just did a cross race on a very hilly course with thick mud. 40/42 was barely enough and I kept looking for a lower gear.

  19. #69
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    Bikepacking gravel bike: 30/36 is easiest gear and I use it frequently. Bike is 27 lbs.

    Gravel race bike/zwift bike/chill road ride bike: 34/32, only ever use it in long hilly gravel races.

    Super lightweight Road race bike: 36/28, and the only time I ever used that gear was in Colorado.

    My conclusion is that gearing should be "geared" to whatever your intended use for the bike is, and where you live.
    I like to ride fast.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post
    ...is trackstanding a rare skill among roadies? Serious question.
    You really don't have that many opportunities to track stand on a road bike. Its more so about traffic flow management and learning how to read the road.... slow down... speed up... if I track stood at an intersection for too long I can guarantee you I'd be hit by a car eventually waiting for the traffic flow to clear up. You have to read the road more than that like you're in a tiny car if you want to survive out there. The only real place you should be track standing is at a stop sign, or possibly at a red light, but I wouldn't be doing it in heavy traffic anyway in case you fall over.

    I know BMX and mountain bike riders like to laugh... but for someone who rides on trails every day out of traffic and various other ways to be inadvertently or advertently killed it really is a skill of its own to be able to manage traffic and road furniture.
    Last edited by 1500SLR; 10-05-2018 at 04:51 PM. Reason: No I didn't say the N word FFS I said s n i g g e r aka laugh

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Finding the damn cleat and clicking in is also a PITA.
    Not if you have double sided pedals.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



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