What bikes brands are made in China? - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevencycle
    but remember they did give us fortune cookies!!!!
    Acutally I do believe that the fortune cookie is an american (domestic) invention (or rather inovation).
    Rocket Sturgeon
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  2. #52
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    I completely agree, but when the manufactures purposefully mislead the consumer, the consumer has very little chance.

    Every consumer has the same chances.


    Dont take this personally..but this is grossly wrong as what you are implying is that volume = quality. There is no way a Ferrari is gonna be inferior to a Ford, this may be an over simplication but you get the point.[/QUOTE]

    Actually, Ford has a much better track record than Ferrari in terms of quality and reliability. It's probably because they make more cars.

  3. #53
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    I completely agree, but when the manufactures purposefully mislead the consumer, the consumer has very little chance.

    Every consumer has the same chances.


    Dont take this personally..but this is grossly wrong as what you are implying is that volume = quality. There is no way a Ferrari is gonna be inferior to a Ford, this may be an over simplication but you get the point.[/quote]

    Actually, Ford has a much better track record than Ferrari in terms of quality and reliability. It's probably because they make more cars.


    Gees..you really need to think about your responses/rebuttals...

    If every consumer has the same chance..this debate/thread would be non-existent.

    Ferraris/Fords..seriously your statement here is ignorant..again nothing personal
    Last edited by TiDreaming; 07-31-2007 at 09:33 PM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by teoteoteo
    Even the flag wavers at Cannondale use China on the Synapse carbon models.
    Cannondale will have some complete bicycles built in China in 2008 model year.

  5. #55
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    A difference

    "They have moderate to serious quality control issues in China (and Taiwan). Since you have to buy bikes by the container full, you need a rep there to make sure that they actually filled it with bikes and not toilet paper ( which you already paid for!)."

    This statement is luckily false - in a couple of ways.

    1 - no factory in China {that any brand I know of would buy from} will ship intentionally something that is not ordered.

    2 -- statement implies China and Taiwan are the same. That is just not true. Brands that bring lower level bikes from China tend to bring upper level from Taiwan for a reason. And to suggest there are 'moderate to serious' QC issues in Taiwan is just crazy. QC in Taiwan beats Italy by a long shot as anyone in the biz will tell you and Taiwan is now up to where Japan was when the Yen went crazy and we all had to drop bikes from Japan.

    I am sensitive to this as several years ago some members on this and other forums stated that Motobecanes were crap from China. Funny thing is NO MOTOBECANE has been made in China. All Motobecanes we import are from Taiwan. Of course, Trek, Specialized, Giant, and soon Cannondale all bring bikes from China. No problem with that. However, they and their accountants will tell you - China and Taiwan are different; in price and QC.

    And one last note:
    'Made In USA" standard I think is 98% USA content - some in congress recently tried to get it dropped to 75% without success. Even if it went to the logical 50% - what bike would be 'Made in USA"?

    most important thing is safely enjoying your ride; just my opinion

    mike

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    "They have moderate to serious quality control issues in China (and Taiwan). Since you have to buy bikes by the container full, you need a rep there to make sure that they actually filled it with bikes and not toilet paper ( which you already paid for!)."

    This statement is luckily false - in a couple of ways.

    1 - no factory in China {that any brand I know of would buy from} will ship intentionally something that is not ordered.

    2 -- statement implies China and Taiwan are the same. That is just not true. Brands that bring lower level bikes from China tend to bring upper level from Taiwan for a reason. And to suggest there are 'moderate to serious' QC issues in Taiwan is just crazy. QC in Taiwan beats Italy by a long shot as anyone in the biz will tell you and Taiwan is now up to where Japan was when the Yen went crazy and we all had to drop bikes from Japan.

    I am sensitive to this as several years ago some members on this and other forums stated that Motobecanes were crap from China. Funny thing is NO MOTOBECANE has been made in China. All Motobecanes we import are from Taiwan. Of course, Trek, Specialized, Giant, and soon Cannondale all bring bikes from China. No problem with that. However, they and their accountants will tell you - China and Taiwan are different; in price and QC.

    And one last note:
    'Made In USA" standard I think is 98% USA content - some in congress recently tried to get it dropped to 75% without success. Even if it went to the logical 50% - what bike would be 'Made in USA"?

    most important thing is safely enjoying your ride; just my opinion

    mike
    I respect your opinion but 20+ years in manufacturing has lead me to that "quality control" statement and I stand by it.

  7. #57
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    My bike is made in Tunisia. Does that make it any better than a bike made in China?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aktion
    I respect your opinion but 20+ years in manufacturing has lead me to that "quality control" statement and I stand by it.
    I respect your 20 years in manufacturing
    however I guess it is not in the cycling industry

    every major quality bike maker on earth has the upmost respect for the QC in Taiwan; including all the big names in Italy or where ever you want to name

    Taiwan has put a special focus on the cycling industry and they have gotten to be as good or better than anyone anywhere ever has been

    That is what I think after 30 years in the bicycle business -- the list of those who agree with me on this issue includes everyone I can think of and know in the bike industry.

    China is a completely different question and situation; my point is that the 2 countries should not be treated as one [on many levels]

    mike

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewitz
    My bike is made in Tunisia. Does that make it any better than a bike made in China?
    Every Tunisian bike I have seen has been pretty high quality.

  10. #60
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    2 -- statement implies China and Taiwan are the same. That is just not true...[/QUOTE]

    I think whether that is, or isn't true, is the subject of a lot of guns being pointed at a lot of people right now... ;)

    (yes, I know these days there is a practical difference, regardless of the political state of affairs)

  11. #61
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    I don't believe that distinguishing and defining the location something is made, or assembled will be that important, or such an issue in the near future. The fact is, that China, and other "pacific rim" countries excel in the ability to manufacture. Furthermore, as time goes by, the quality will improve substantially.
    For the mfg's, its less a matter of being dishonest, as it is a matter of smart business sense.
    Several companies in my industry rely heavily on Chinese manufacturing, but also are incredibly rigid when it comes to quality, and meeting ALL of the specifications for that particular item.
    I know what quality is when a nice frame is put in front of me. If it comes from china, so be it...
    The more people ride high end chinese bikes (frames), the better the quality will be in the future, as long as the brand demands perfection.
    My current frame is aluminum from china. It has clean welds, is perfectly straight, and is exceptional on the road.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmoryl
    Every Tunisian bike I have seen has been pretty high quality.
    All the Tunisian bikes I have seen appear to have excellent QC and are made by the French company LOOK.

  13. #63

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    As far as I can say I think Taiwan has better quality control over main land China. High end frames have been produced in Taiwan longer and I think the skilled labor set might be a little better. This is why big name bike companies are slow to adopt getting frames from China. The costs are lower but so is quality. It takes time to bring a new facility online and get the workers and process up to speed. They also have to refine their QC process over time so that only the ighest quality is allowed to ship. I am not going to get into polotics or human rights because lets face it this is economy of scale and it allows places like China and lower cost labor force countires to thrive. We, i.e. the consumer wants the best for cheep. Nuf said.
    To that end I saw online pedalforce.com and their QS2 frame. I am trying to find out if anyone has any experiance with them.Obviously there isn't the support of the LBS and a brand name but honestly If I ride it for two years, I can go back take the Ultegra set off it and buy a brand name frame. Nothing wrong with that.

  14. #64

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    I would never ride a bike made in China as my Giant is designed in USA!!!!!!
    lighter is better

  15. #65

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    hahahaha good one seven cycle. Actually I like Giant. Don't think they are bad at all. the fact they have a single factory for their fomrula one frames is great. They also imploy technologies, i.e. lugless design that you don't see other places. So the engineers live in the US.. wooohooo wave the flag and all that.. At the end of the day Tiawan has the technology and no how to make stuff and do it cheaply, so we don't build it here anymore.

  16. #66

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    my last bike was t-mobile advance.I liked it. Fast & Cheap
    lighter is better

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevencycle
    I would never ride a bike made in China as my Giant is designed in USA!!!!!!
    Dude, Giant's are made in Taiwan. By Martec composites, IIRC.

    Most bikes aren't designed in China or Taiwan. They're made there. Just like Look is designed in France, manufactured in Tunisia.
    "It's hard to tell the poison from the cure, so enjoy the disease."
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest Root
    It's true. I have verifiable proof.
    Well then prove it!
    "It's hard to tell the poison from the cure, so enjoy the disease."
    -Mohair_Chair

  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by estone2
    Dude, Giant's are made in Taiwan. By Martec composites, IIRC.

    Most bikes aren't designed in China or Taiwan. They're made there. Just like Look is designed in France, manufactured in Tunisia.
    Dude dont burst my bubble.Next thing you will tell that Lance is not French.
    lighter is better

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsilver668
    As far as I can say I think Taiwan has better quality control over main land China. High end frames have been produced in Taiwan longer and I think the skilled labor set might be a little better. This is why big name bike companies are slow to adopt getting frames from China. The costs are lower but so is quality. It takes time to bring a new facility online and get the workers and process up to speed. They also have to refine their QC process over time so that only the ighest quality is allowed to ship. I am not going to get into polotics or human rights because lets face it this is economy of scale and it allows places like China and lower cost labor force countires to thrive. We, i.e. the consumer wants the best for cheep. Nuf said.
    To that end I saw online pedalforce.com and their QS2 frame. I am trying to find out if anyone has any experiance with them.Obviously there isn't the support of the LBS and a brand name but honestly If I ride it for two years, I can go back take the Ultegra set off it and buy a brand name frame. Nothing wrong with that.
    I have a PF RS, actually built two of them, several posters at the other Bike Forum have QS2 frames and could provide you with some insight

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by estone2
    Dude, Giant's are made in Taiwan. By Martec composites, IIRC.

    Most bikes aren't designed in China or Taiwan. They're made there. Just like Look is designed in France, manufactured in Tunisia.
    From what I understand, Look's situation is a little different than most other frame makers. They own the plant in Africa where the frames are built. They have control over the process. I'm not saying frames made in Asia are not good, but Look's situation isn't the same as most other frame makers.
    Last edited by Richieg; 08-04-2007 at 04:21 AM.

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by sevencycle
    Dude dont burst my bubble.Next thing you will tell that Lance is not French.
    Hi end Looks are still French. They even weave their own Carbon. I dont know of any bike maker doinn that!!!
    lighter is better

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richieg
    From what I understand, Look's situation is a little different than most other frame makers. They own the plant in Africa where the frames are built. They have control over the process. I'm not saying frames made in Asia are not good, but Look's situation isn't the same as most other frame makers.
    please note that Look imports some frames from Advanced Composites in Taiwan
    and they will certainly increase the percentage of frames coming from Asia; just like everyone else has


    mike

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richieg
    From what I understand, Look's situation is a little different than most other frame makers. They own the plant in Africa where the frames are built. They have control over the process. I'm not saying frames made in Asia are not good, but Look's situation isn't the same as most other frame makers.
    Oh, I know.

    What I'm saying is that few companies still make the product in the same location as the company's claimed nationality. (Is that properly phrased? I'm having trouble talking today )
    "It's hard to tell the poison from the cure, so enjoy the disease."
    -Mohair_Chair

  25. #75

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    Estone2 I understand. Also even though Cervelo has great engineers making their frames, they then work with a Taiwan agent to manage the relationship with the factory or factories to produce the parts. It is suprising anything gets done but Taiwan has refined their carbon parts production to the point where they are some of the best. Giant is unique where they actually design their own product in Taiwan and are some of the leaders in Carbon frame production hands down.

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