What do you think about Canyon?
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  1. #1
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    What do you think about Canyon?

    I'm getting close to being ready for a new bike. Right now, I'm on a Specialized Tarmac SL4 Pro.

    I started looking at the Canyon Ultimate CF SL. It seems similarly spec'd to the Tarmac Expert, but the price is so much lower. $2300 vs $4000.

    The Tarmac has a tapered steerer (I'm not sure if that makes a difference) and direct-mount brakes.

    The Canyon is prettier, and has an all-carbon one-piece cockpit.

    Is the SL frame comparable to the Tarmac Expert/Pro? Is the Tarmac closer in quality to the more expensive SLX?

    Would a Canyon Ultimate be a step down from the Tarmac?

  2. #2
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    The Canyon would merely separate you from your money; it would do nothing for your riding.

    And the CANYON logo is ugly. Looks like absolutely no thought was put in to it.

    There's nothing wrong with your Tarmac. If it fits, it's fine.

  3. #3
    ngl
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    Looks like a bargain if you know your correct sizing, you can perform your own maintenance and don't mind internet warranty.

  4. #4
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    I have had excellent experiences with Canyon. I've purchased two bikes from them now, and in both cases the experience was great.

    It's not for everyone, and they themselves will tell you. If you aren't comfortable doing your own basic maintenance, you should definitely consider buying local.

    I bought the Endurace CF SLX Ultegra Di2. I did a lot of research before I bought it, and went into it knowing I would probably hate the integrated bar/stem (and I did), but the bike was a perfect fit, and other than putting my own Ritchey stem and Enve compact road bars, and a Selle Italia seat, the bike was prefectly spec'd out of the box, including the wheels (Reynolds Assault LE).

    I understand that the spec (and price) has changed for the current run of bikes, but I feel like I got excellent value for my money from them.

  5. #5
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    Wow, I looked at the bike on their website - that's a really good deal for a bike with a great groupset. Haven't read reviews on the bike yet, but hard to beat that pricing for a new bike.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiCoyote View Post
    and has an all-carbon one-piece cockpit.
    If that's in the positive column you should move it to the negative. I'd have to be pretty confident I liked the bar shape, stem length and angle, fit and that I'd want that fit for a long time and even then that's neutral at best.
    But then again if the savings compared to a similar bike is really big buying a new stem and bars is less of an issue.

  7. #7
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    I definitely want Di2. I'm not sure about disc vs. rim brakes.

    The Ultegra mechanical model is $2300. I could upgrade to Di2 for around $850, bringing the total to $3150. Then I could sell the shifters and derailleurs for $300, bringing the final cost down to $2850.

    Alternatively, I could get the Di2 Disc version for $3700.

    A slightly cheaper route would be to get the Di2 mechanical version for $2800, upgrade to Di2 for $1050, spending $3850, and then sell the pull-offs for $400, so the cost would be $3450.

    The problem with the last option is that I'm not confident installing hydraulic disc brakes, and I'm not sure I could sell the parts. When it comes down to it, if I sell them on ebay for $300, after I pay fees and shipping, I'm left with around $250, which would mean that I've only saved $100. To me, having pre-installed components and not having to sell anything on e-bay is worth more than $100.

  8. #8
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    Unless something has changed, Canyon mechanical framesets are not Electronic compatible, and vice versa for the electronic to mechanical.
    Last edited by Finx; 05-04-2019 at 08:29 AM.

  9. #9
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    What prevents cross compatibility? Do they have different hole sizes?

  10. #10
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    I bought a Endurace CF SL 3 weeks ago. It came as advertised. There were only a couple of things I had issues with. The handlebars were only 42 cm & the stem only 110 mm on a size large. It was very uncomfortable, so I changed out the 42 bars & installed 44s from my broken Giant Defy Advanced Pro. That made all the difference.

    The bike is supremely comfortable & eerily silent. The front end is very solid with the 1 1/4 steerer tube & the through axles. I rode a metric last weekend & had no problems. The bike is very responsive, handles like a race bike, & is an excellent climber. There's very little concession made from a full out race bike. If I was young & racing again I wouldn't hesitate to use this bike. I'm very happy I bought this bike.

    So, I'm loving it so far, but then I just bought it so you should take my comments as initial impressions. I've only ridden it about 200 mi. Maybe I'll post about it again after I've been on it for 1000 mi or more.
    Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them you'll be a mile away & you'll have their shoes.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiCoyote View Post
    What prevents cross compatibility? Do they have different hole sizes?
    There are no holes for Di2 wires on the mechanical frameset. There is also no good place to mount the Di2 battery (seatpost is a nogo).

    There are no cable guides or cable stops on the electronic version.

  12. #12
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    Does the Di2 version use the internal or external battery?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiCoyote View Post
    Does the Di2 version use the internal or external battery?
    Canyon mounts the battery in the down tube just above the BB using a bracket that is built into the frame.

    You should give them a call and ask these questions.

    When I first decided to get a Di2 canyon, there were none available in my size, and they weren't expecting them soon. I called them to ask if I could buy the mechanical and upgrade. The answer was given was "No!".

    The battery mount doesn't exist in the mechanical version, and you would have to drill a hole in the frame to get the FD E-Tube wire out.

    These two reasons were enough for me to wait. There may be other reasons I'm not remembering as well.

  14. #14
    Adorable Furry Hombre
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter P. View Post
    The Canyon would merely separate you from your money; it would do nothing for your riding.

    And the CANYON logo is ugly. Looks like absolutely no thought was put in to it.

    There's nothing wrong with your Tarmac. If it fits, it's fine.
    Funny...it actually does show far more thought and graphic design than basically any other major OEM that just has their name typed in BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS as their "logo" plastered and shouting literally everywhere. AKA: TREK, GIANT, SPECIALIZED, BMC, AVANTI, BLUE, TIME, DIAMONDBACK....

    There are reasons to poo poo a Canyon....their graphic design has as much or more effort than any other schlub in the industry big or small
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  15. #15
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    Why can't you put a battery in the seatpost?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiCoyote View Post
    Why can't you put a battery in the seatpost?
    For one, the VCLS seatpost (which is otherwise a great piece of kit) is not hollow. It's a leaf spring design...

    But, don't listen to me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    You should give them a call and ask these questions.

  17. #17
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    Iíll just underscore what Finx said, since my experience is very similar.

    If you donít mind doing a bit of wrenching yourself, and a bit of planning to dial in fit, the Canyon is a fantastic bike for a fantastic price.

    Iíve got a 2018 Endurace CF Sl Disc 7.0. I put about 2500 miles on it, and then upgraded the groupset to Ultegra R8020 (with a dura ace crank). The bike is amazingly solid, stiff when it needs to be, but crazy comfortable, and SO quiet. But I was most impressed when I switched the groupset: Canyon really thought things through Ė the cable grommets, the little thingy under the DT water bottle that holds the rear brake line tight so it doesnít rattle. Nice.

    You should be aware of things like the 1 1/4Ē steerer tube Ė Canyon is making money for Ritchey, since they and giant seem to be the only ones making stems that size.

    Personally, I would question your emphasis on Di2. I went from a rim brake Di2 bike to the Canyon, and I think of it as an upgrade in riding experience. Donít get me wrong, Di2 works GREAT, but it really has no effect on my actual riding, whereas disc brakes are a much bigger deal for me while on the bike. I also had some Di2 battery problems I had to troubleshoot, and having all the wires inside the frame made it a real pain. The next time I do electronic shifting, it will be wireless. Iím impressed with the Ultegra R8020 every time I ride the bike Ė the front shifting is particularly good. Just my unsolicited 2 cents! Good luck in your search!

  18. #18
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    With Specialized, from time to time Ive needed a small part. Sometimes my LBS has it. Sometimes I can find it online. Other times, Iím SOL. Canyon hasnít had any Ultimates in stock for weeks. What if I buy one, and a proprietary part breaks? Is Canyon good about customer service? Iíve seen complaints about their customer service online, but thatís true for any company.

  19. #19
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    They are great about that from my personal experience. I ordered several small parts from them when I converted from their proprietary bars and stem to my own personal setup.

    At the time, I had to call them on the phone because their website wasn't updated with all of the parts availability on the US site. I don't know where that stands now. I browsed the EU site to get a feel for what they had available. But the CS reps knew part numbers for things like 1 1/4" spacers, stem top caps, and other non bike specific parts that I needed.

    I can't speak to how well they support older products. i.e if you could buy a derailleur hangar for your 5 year old Endurace. Maybe someone who's owned one for a while can answer. My guess is they are not better or worse than any other bike company. I'ts my standard practice to buy a three spare derailleur hangars for any new bike/frame I buy.

    Anyway, those are good questions to ask them when you call. They love talking on the phone to prospective customers.

  20. #20
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    One more question:

    They've been out of stock for the past week. Yesterday and today, a few sizes have been showing up, but then selling out within hours.

    I've also read that they sometimes have TDF sales in July.

    So, here the choice: Buy it as soon as it is available, or wait and see if it goes on sale in July?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiCoyote View Post
    One more question:

    They've been out of stock for the past week. Yesterday and today, a few sizes have been showing up, but then selling out within hours.

    I've also read that they sometimes have TDF sales in July.

    So, here the choice: Buy it as soon as it is available, or wait and see if it goes on sale in July?
    I don't think even the people at Canyon could answer this question with any certainty. I certainly can't.

    I just kept watching the website until the bike I wanted showed up, and I bought it.

    Trying to speculate on new model release dates and such will just make you crazy.

    Edit to add: I just got off the phone with them ordering the carbon/oval rail flip-head seat post clamp for my VCLS S-15 leaf spring seat post. Took about 5 minutes.

    While we were chatting, the rep told me that they will be launching a new US web site some time in the next month or so, and that the site should have a more complete inventory of components and accessories, more in line with the UK and Germany sites have now.

  22. #22
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    I have an aluminum and a CF Canyon and they are both excellent.

    The F8 is one of the few aluminum bikes that have stood the test of time (13 years and counting) and that I liked enough to keep. (to give you some context, the others I kept are a Colnago Dream, a DeRosa Vision, a Merckx Leader and a Giant TCR SL all pure racing bikes)

    The other is an Ultimate CF SL and it's equally lovely. Not super light (990 grams in M) but feels very racy .

    Experience with customer service was good but not great. During the great fork recall of I think 2008 I received a replacement fork within a week, complete with an X-ray picture and a multitool but had to wait several months for shipping to be refunded.

    After ordering a new headset for the Ultimate I initially received an incomplete one. Easily and promptly rectified but not inspiring much confidence either.
    Alleged "Campy fanboy" and "Einstein".

  23. #23
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    OP, I was looking to buy the Canyon electronic frame, but they had none in the US at the time and had no idea when they would be available. I spoke with Canyon USA and what I found was Canyon is not flexible with exchanging parts; it's all or nothing. For example: They have very narrow handlebars and I needed a 44mm bar, but they would not exchange that 39mm bar to meet my needs nor would they give any credit for the stock bar towards a purchase. While, I like the looks of the bike, they were just too limiting for my needs, so I went back to Trek and a Project 1 frame and I am able to do what I please and have local Trek shops within miles. Plus, there are no Canyon dealerships near me, so any issues and I'd have to contact California and deal with long distance warranties. I just didn't want to deal with the headaches.

    When I was using their sizing system, I kept getting errors when inputing my measurements, but it would not tell me what the error was, so I called Canyon and they told me that I could only input certain sizes. For instance, I could not enter any measurements that would result in a size larger than the stock 39mm handlebar - crazy. Obviously these bikes are build for string beans. I'm not fat, just have large/broad shoulders, chest etc. Too proprietary.

  24. #24
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    So I decided against it. Instead I'm building up a TCR Advanced Pro Disc frame.

    First of all, I read a few reviews and personal experiences that people had QC issues, finish issues, missing parts, etc. For the most part, these were minor, but getting them resolved could take several weeks.

    Secondly, I e-mailed Canyon 3 times with questions. The first time, I got no response. The second and third time, I got responses right away. Many people stated that customer service is "hit or miss." You either get great service, or you get ignored.

    Third, $3700 is a great price for a CF race frame with Di2 and discs. But, Canyon won't swap out any parts. I like a 11-25 cassette, and the Canyon comes with an 11-30. I currently have a Stages on a 172.5mm crank arm, and the Canyon comes with a 170. Aside from that, I would need a new mount for my Bolt that fits the bars, and I like the Specialized saddles, so I would already be spending a few hundred swapping out parts. At that point, it's not such a great deal.

    Fourth, they had one in my size for about a day, then it sold out. Now they're not expecting any until Sept. In fact, they just changed their site, so until today, there was no way of knowing when they would be available. That's a long time to wait for a new bike, and with supply issues like that, what if I need a warranty replacement, or simply a small part.

    Fifth, one of my qualms with my Tarmac is that Specialized parts are a little difficult to get. I needed a BB-shell bottom cover, and I went to two shops. One couldn't get it, and the other one ordered the part, but received the wrong one. I figure, Giant has such a massive supply chain, it should be easier to get parts. With Canyon, I have to contact the manufacturer directly. What if they pull out of the US market next year?

    Sixth, I got a good deal on the Giant frame. I'll build it up, I can put better wheels on it than the ones that come with the Canyon, and I'll hopefully spend less in the long run.

    Pics forthcoming!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiCoyote View Post
    So I decided against it. Instead I'm building up a TCR Advanced Pro Disc frame.

    First of all, I read a few reviews and personal experiences that people had QC issues, finish issues, missing parts, etc. For the most part, these were minor, but getting them resolved could take several weeks.

    Secondly, I e-mailed Canyon 3 times with questions. The first time, I got no response. The second and third time, I got responses right away. Many people stated that customer service is "hit or miss." You either get great service, or you get ignored.

    Third, $3700 is a great price for a CF race frame with Di2 and discs. But, Canyon won't swap out any parts. I like a 11-25 cassette, and the Canyon comes with an 11-30. I currently have a Stages on a 172.5mm crank arm, and the Canyon comes with a 170. Aside from that, I would need a new mount for my Bolt that fits the bars, and I like the Specialized saddles, so I would already be spending a few hundred swapping out parts. At that point, it's not such a great deal.

    Fourth, they had one in my size for about a day, then it sold out. Now they're not expecting any until Sept. In fact, they just changed their site, so until today, there was no way of knowing when they would be available. That's a long time to wait for a new bike, and with supply issues like that, what if I need a warranty replacement, or simply a small part.

    Fifth, one of my qualms with my Tarmac is that Specialized parts are a little difficult to get. I needed a BB-shell bottom cover, and I went to two shops. One couldn't get it, and the other one ordered the part, but received the wrong one. I figure, Giant has such a massive supply chain, it should be easier to get parts. With Canyon, I have to contact the manufacturer directly. What if they pull out of the US market next year?

    Sixth, I got a good deal on the Giant frame. I'll build it up, I can put better wheels on it than the ones that come with the Canyon, and I'll hopefully spend less in the long run.

    Pics forthcoming!
    +1 on this

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