rear derailleur adjustment with '09 centaur levers
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  1. #1
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    rear derailleur adjustment with '09 centaur levers

    I'm having adjustment problems with my existing '07 10 speed record derailleur and the new '09 centaur levers. I seem to be able to shift up the cogs with no problem, but coming down there is hesitation in the middle cogs, then it is smooth going out with the last few (11-23 cassette). when I adjust for those middle cogs, the others shift poorly. My set up ran very well with my '07 record shifters and the Derailleur hanger is fine. With the new levers, I also installed new cables and housing. I also tried greasing the cable guide underneath the B.B. Do you think the cable is catching somewhere on the housing or cable stops as I shift out to the smaller cogs?

    The centaur shifters are nice, but It is difficult to tell when shifting to larger cogs because you don't hear the familiar "click". Also, when i "zero out" the button to the smallest cog, I shift up just one click (I think), then when i push the button down (expecting only one click), it will click twice. So sometimes I am not sure if I have "zeroed out the smallest cog position. Thanks for any imput.

  2. #2
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    info..

    Cable friction can be a problem with the new shifters. Did you install the new Campy ultra low friction cable housing and genuine Campy cables? If not, that is most likely the problem. I've had problems had to use Jagwire 4mm cable housing, when a vendor shipped me a 10 speed cableset.

    As for zeroing out the shifters, just keep pushing the thumb button down until there are no more clicks. If you failed to go all the way down, you would be short one click and would not be able to get the chain to the largest cog.

    The only other reason for hesitating shift to smaller cogs it too much cable tension. Use the least that still produces good shifts to larger cogs.

  3. #3
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    Thanks C-40. Yes I did install the campy housing and cables. I am going to check the cable housing for any possible places the cable could be gettin hung up too. Also do you think I should lube the cable before inserting it into the housing? Campy says that is not necessary.

  4. #4

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    Funny. I had the same exact thing happen to me on my 2009 Centaur shifters. Still haven't resolved it. This didn't happen immediately, so I figured the original cables got gunked up, so dumped in some silicone spray, which helped for a few shifts. Then back to crappy. I threw on a Gore Ride-On sealed cable to keep the gunk out (it's my rain bike), and shifting is abysmal.

  5. #5
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    What I did is I took all the cables out and slightly lubed them. I put them back in and made sure there were no kinks in the housing anywhere. I replaced my old record chain and cassette with a chorus chain and cassette (forester link to attach). Took me a while to dial in (on the stand). Shifting from small (cogs) to large was fine, but still some hesitation from large to small . Took a short ride around the neighborhood and everything seemed fine. Then I rode up in the hills (Sonoma, Napa region of California) and it worked flawlessly. The centaur shifter "clicks" (for up shifting with the paddles) aren't as definite as my old record. But I got used to that very quickly. I love the ergo hoods and the longer levers provide much better leverage for braking. I am taking C-40s suggestion: I bought a chorus cassette to replace my old record (more durable) and I am going to purchase an extra Chorus chain to rotate periodically to extend the life of my new cassette (using forster masterlink on both chains).

  6. #6

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    Hmm... Maybe I need to remove my inner shift cable and lube it, then throw it back in. I did hit it with some Tri-Flow where I could.

    All of my drivetrain is 2009 Centaur, and is brand-new. This is kinda frustrating.

  7. #7
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    might want to check the housing leading to the rear derailleur as well. If it doesn't enter to as close to a straight line (as possible), that could be a source of cable friction.

  8. #8

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    Good point about the rear housing angle, i hadn't thought about that. Tho in the interim, I loaded up the inner cable with more Tri-Flow, and all is working perfectly. Like the 'lube port' (y-shaped insert for guiding shift cable) on the lever!

  9. #9
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    Make me #3 w/ the same issue. I know for a fact the cables aren't the problem, they were replaced when I installed the new levers (I too have them mated to 07 Centaur derailleurs).

    Feels like I have the tension on the cables right where it should be, as well as the limiting screws. I just can't get the middle gears to engage completely.

    Almost like I have to shift up 1 1/2 gears then have to shift down 1/2 to get it engaged, and even then it's not always completely in there. Is that kinda what you dealt w/ Campy-on-Trek? If yes keep sending suggestions this way.....
    Last edited by jpdigital; 02-25-2009 at 09:13 PM.

  10. #10
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    still cables...

    Just because the cables were replaced doesn't eliminate them from suspect. I assume they were the new Campy ultrashift cables? That is a must.

    No one has mentioned cable routing. The shift cables can be routed in front or in back of the bars. The back routing would seem to pose the least resistance. I used to always choose the front routing, but not with the EC90 SLX3 bars I have now. The bend just behind the brake hood is too sharp.

  11. #11
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    Well, kinda what you describe. I would get hesitation going from large to small cogs and then when it would "shift down" it wouldn't be clean. there would be chain rattle. the only way i could get some engagement was to approach the desired cog from the other direction (shift outward to smaller, then back up to larger). But even then, I would get chain noise and pressing on the paddles (half way) seemed to help. I know my derailleur hanger is fine as I adjusted that with the park tool (dag-2?). I took C-40's suggestion about cable friction and did the following:

    I took out all the cable and housing (from the right lever all the way to the rear derailleur). I made sure the the housing ends were lubricated and not restricted in any way (i pushed lube up the housing end and far as i could). Basically, any point along the path where the cable could possibly get hung up. I noticed that the housing piece that goes from the chain stay to the rear derailleur wasn't long enough. So I re-cut that, lubed ends and installed. After I did this, I adjusted on the stand. Going from small to large was perfect, but still a little hesitation from large to small. I did incremental adjustments with the barrel screw and kept going back and forth over the problem cogs. I eventually got it to shift (reasonable well) on the stand (going both directions). I then took it out for a ride and it worked flawlessly. In the end, I think it was a combination of friction plus my failure to make "fine" adjustments with the barrel screw.
    Last edited by Campy-on-a-Trek; 02-26-2009 at 08:27 AM.

  12. #12
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    I second was C-40 says. I routed the shift cables to the back of my bars.

  13. #13

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    Good point, C-40. I always mount shift cables to the rear of the bar. Tho I'm using non-Ultra-Shift cables, I am getting good results using Tri-Flow on the inner cables.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-40
    Just because the cables were replaced doesn't eliminate them from suspect. I assume they were the new Campy ultrashift cables? That is a must.

    No one has mentioned cable routing. The shift cables can be routed in front or in back of the bars. The back routing would seem to pose the least resistance. I used to always choose the front routing, but not with the EC90 SLX3 bars I have now. The bend just behind the brake hood is too sharp.

  14. #14
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    Yup, everything you've just mentioned I have: new ultra shift cables & routed behind the bar (although I prefer brake & shift cables both mounted in front). Campy says not to lube the cables, and mine are too new to really think about lubing them, but would that improve the shifting in the middle of the gear range?

  15. #15
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    I discovered my barrel adjuster on the rear derailleur was stripped so I couldn't adjust tension.
    The extreme outer & inner gears were fine, but it the middle sucked.
    Took it to my LBS a couple of hours ago and that's what ended up causing my shift-misery. Had a new one installed and everything is good. Check yours out and see if it helps....

  16. #16
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    I have had the same problems as the others. Followed the directions to the letter and used all original Campy equipment. I noticed that the following:
    - going for 12 to 25 cog, after the 16/15 cog it the system seem to go out of alignment.
    - shifting up the stack was ok, but coming down from 25 to 16 was not working well
    - at one point i was counting 10 clinks to move the chain 9 movements, not 9.

    I adjusted the rear derailleur by starting at the 25 tooth cog and working my way down. This works ok, but a little hesitation in some spots. Now I have some trouble when going from 14 to 12 - it jumps straight to 12.

    I wonder if the actuation all of the new (11 and 10 sp) ergo shifters are different from old 10 sp and therefore it lets out the wrong amount of cable when used with a 10 sp rear derailleur. I wonder what would happen if you put a 11 sp rear der on. The new 11 sp rear ders are suppose to have a different actuation from the old 10 sp design. If all of the ergos (10 or 11 sp) are really designed to mate to new actuation of the 11 sp rear der the resultant cable throw should be correct for 10 or 11 speed train.

    The other answer could be that Campy screwed up and made the index disks of the new centaurs ergo the same as the 11 spd (or at least the first batch), just minus 1 gear. That is a possibility. If that is the case use a 11 speed rear cassette and a 11 spd rear der and you will not be able to access 1 dear.

    Can some try this combo out? What will happen if:
    You use an 11 sp rear der with the new centaur
    If it is still not in alignment, what happens if you add an 11 spd cassette (for the spacing)

  17. #17
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    info...

    Campy did not change the cable pull on the 2009 10 speed shifters. It's the same as in the past. I have measured it.

    The new 11 speed RD, will work on 10 speed, but it does travel slightly further since the actuation ratio is slightly larger, but in my testing it seeemd to work OK.

    If a 10 speed RD is installed on an 11 speed drivetrain, it will come up short on travel. I've posted a fix for this.

    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/sho...d.php?t=160601

  18. #18
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    Hi C40

    Considering the problems that people are having with the new Ergo 10 shifters, which rear der. do you think will work best, the 10 spead or one of the 11 sp rear ders.

    The problem that I seen when I was fiddling with my shifting was that when the rear der did not move enough at the top end cassette (23 to 16)

  19. #19
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    more...

    I would not buy an 11 speed RD unless you really plan to upgrade to 11 speed in the near future. If you want to try increasing the RD travel, then try the modification that I have explained. It's simple to do.

    If you have a cable friction problem, then a RD change is not going to eliminate that. When there is excessive friction, the shifts to larger cogs should never be a problem. It's only when you shift to smaller cogs that the problems occur, since the spring force is not sufficient to overcome the cable friction. About all you can do is leave the cable tension as loose as possible, but still permit decent shifts to larger cogs.

    The only other solution is find the source of the friction and eliminate it.

  20. #20
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    Thad. Before you consider modifying your rear derailleur, please consider cable friction (per C-40's) suggestion. Could your (rear derailleur) cable be getting "hung

  21. #21
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    Thad. Before you consider modifying your rear derailleur, please consider cable friction (per C-40's) suggestion. Could your (rear derailleur) cable be getting "hung up" somewhere? Check the entire cable/housing path, especially the rear derailleur housing (as it enters the derailleur, does it approximate a straight line?). As I mentioned, I re-installed my cable and housing and that seemed to do the trick (1000+ miles and still shifts great). Best of luck.

  22. #22

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    So far so good. Shifting with 2009 Centaur system is still fantastic.

    I'm certain I should pay better attention to cable-routing, but Tri-Flow has helped immensely!

  23. #23

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    I am having the exact same problem as Thad. I can get it adjusted to shift well everywhere except the 12-13-14 cogs. When looking at the alignment. of RD with the cogs, it looks like the are not staying in line. I can either get the top cogs or the bottom shifting well but not the whole range.

    Everything is new, the RD hanger was double checked, I thought it was cable friction. After try everything with the campy cables, I am now using a Shimano XTR cable & housing which are very low friction.

    I'm stumped and I have been wrenching Campy a long time. Please help!

  24. #24
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    I am also having the same issue w/my 09' Centaur group. I have been using Campy for years, and have years of bike shop experience so this is a bit fustrating. Shifting is great at the low and high end of the range, but suffers in the middle with lags and very hesitant shifting. The main problems seem to be in the 15/16/17, both coming up and going down.

    Hanger alignment is bang on as checked with my Park DAG.

    I'm using a new Campy cable and housing set, and there is no friction/kinks. All ends that were cut were ground flat and the openings are not crimped in any way.

    New 10spd Centaur UD cassette, 13-26 for the hills here in CO.

    I've tried adding extra lube (Tri-flow) to all housings from the front shifter all the way to the rear derail loop. No funny bends in the housing, nothing out of the ordinary.

    Unlike others I am using a wipperman chain (10s8). Not convinced it's the chain though as others using Campy chains seem to have the same issues. Will be ordering a new Campy chain this week though to try out just in case.

    The bike shifts OK, but not great, on the road but worse in the workstand. I know from past experience that my Campy groups have needed some "running in" to really shift smooth but this seems out of the ordinary. The new 11 spd Record group that I installed on a friends bike has none of these issues and shifts like a dream right out of the gate.

    I've messed around with cable tension and b-spring tension to no avail.

    At this point I've been riding it as it is and dealing with the hesitant shifting, but I'd love if somebody had some insights on how to get this fixed.

  25. #25

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    I have the same problem on the 4th cog... Tried everything to adjust it. I'm glad I don't like the new ergo's and i'm going back to my 06 Chorus shifters.

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