Upgrade from Chorus 9 speed - should I go to 10, or 11 speed separates?
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  1. #1
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    Upgrade from Chorus 9 speed - should I go to 10, or 11 speed separates?

    Hello! I have read dozens of pages, the info is so much that my head almost collapsed for a few days I am on a tight budget and I want to upgrade piece by piece - a full groupset or a triple crank is out of the question.
    I currently have my 9 speed Chorus serviced and rebuilded to work with the new pull ratio and post-2000 rear mech.But...I do not like how it works with my only 10 speed components that I have, a Chorus CT front mech ( i have 2 of them brand new ), and my PZ Racing CR 2.1 compact crankset for Campagnolo, a 50-34.Using my newly built Guerciotti Cross Force for Audax on crappy roads, some Topeak seatpost bag ( 7 kg ) and some little bags all over the frame, I believe I will benefit from a 13-29 cassette, or even a 12-30 one.So...the big question is should I buy shifters, cassette, chain and rear derailleur / mech for 10, or 11 speed ?
    I have little to no knowledge about Campagnolo stuff from different years.The best European website I found is bike-components, so I would like to buy all the gear from there.But I have no idea what...I beg you to help me.This looks like a 2010 model :

    https://www.bike-components.de/en/Ca...-10-fach-p401/

    And here...it is listed as QS, but the photo shows otherwise :

    https://www.bike-components.de/en/Ca...griffe-p14703/

    I know 11 speed levers and rear mech are hard to match, as Campagnolo constantly makes modifications.How about 11 speed shifters ?

    https://www.bike-components.de/en/Ge...der=price_desc

  2. #2
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    Buying piece-meal you're going to spend more than just buying a group. Especially when you factor in shipping, and potential customs issues with whatever seller you work with. Further, buying 10 speed you're going to spend just as much as 11 speed probably...and end up with parts that being out of date will only be more and more difficult to replace.

    Also you're bound to run into compatibility issues. Here's a post by a resident Campag wrench on BikeForums:

    Campagnolo 10 speed, compatability?

    Trying to keep track of all that should give you a headache.

  3. #3
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    I am aware of that, thank you.The thing is...I have brand new TRP CX 8.4 mini V-brakes for Campagnolo, two brand-new 115.5mm ITA bottom brackets ( my CX frame and PZ Racing carbon crankset would not accept anything shorter ), two brand-new Chorus CT front mech, so I have everything I need.I do not like cassettes like the bundled 12-25, etc.Like many others, I want to choose my own stuff, and yes, I already have a headache.I just wanted to know if those particular 10 speed Record shifters & mech are decent, as I have read many reports over bad series and years of production in this forum.

  4. #4
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    One of your links was to the old-style Record 10-speed shifters. Nothing wrong with them, but if you are on a tight budget why are you looking at Record components?

    I just installed a Veloce 10-speed setup on one of my bikes and was really impressed by the ease of installation and precision of the shifting. So why not Veloce shifters, derailleurs and cassette (loose cog like you want). It shifts as well and runs as quietly as any of my Record bikes. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/cam...ew-351002.html

    As well, this gives you the newer shifter shape plus droopy thumb button. The ergonomics and braking power are much improved with the newer design.

    These bits will be compatible with what you have.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

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    Because I do not like the new ergonomics and thumb button - I tested the newer Centaur, paired with Veloce rear mech and cassette.I much prefer my 1998 Chorus, that was upgraded internally in the Campag service in the UK.Now, should I upgrade it to 10 speed, the cost would be around 100 GBP, including shipping.
    I have read numerous user reviews @ wiggle - people suggest that lower-end shifters do not last as nearly as much as Record, and the shifting is inferoir and less positive - I believe I noticed that when trying the brand new Centaur for a one-hour ride.Of course, Veloce is quite a bang-for-the-buck...But I still prefet the Ultra-shift and durability, FD trim, and good looks of Record components.
    I have read that almost all 10-speed rear mech are identical in pull ration and the way they work.In the comment section in the bike-components listing, somebody says in German that the Record mech is 2010, an obsolete model ? Is is that bad ?

  6. #6
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    You can't have tested a 2015 Centaur because there's no such thing - discontinued.

    I have been riding only Campy shifters for a long time now and have used them all. I'm telling you that there has been an improvement with the 2015 Veloce design. You seem to want to believe every piece of random out of date nonsense you come across on the internet. There is no evidence I've read that current powershift and ultrashift are much different in longevity, and I just finished telling you that the Veloce shifting was as good as anything I've experienced. And it trims the FD.

    I'd also suggest that either of the current shifter designs is more reliable and longer lasting than the older g-spring design which you prefer.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  7. #7
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    My mistake then...I tested these ones :

    https://www.bike-components.de/de/Ca...uslauf-p25850/

    https://www.bike-components.de/de/Ca...0-fach-p25890/

    Apparantly, for us, European Union residents, this shop offers hands-down the lowest prices.I do not ride much, something like 4000 miles per year.If I was riding a lot more, I would have surely gone for the cheaper groupsets.

  8. #8
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    Today, a mechanic thoroughly tested my setup...even with a brand new cassette, chain and front / rear derailleurs...it is the shifters fault.It was profesionally restored in UK`s Campagnolo service centre, or at least I thought it was - it does not work well and must be replaced.So, no 9 or 11 speed for me - I am quite certain I will buy 10 speed stuff now, as I like the 13-29 cassette and a 34 / 46 setup for Audax.
    There are plenty of NOS Chorus / Record shifters to be found, but most of them have QS stamped on them, are they reliable ? I know what QS is, but I do not care how fast the shifting is, as I will not buy a QS-specific front derailleur - I remember some posts in this forum, where people suggest one should stay away from any QS shifters ?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixt00l View Post
    There are plenty of NOS Chorus / Record shifters to be found, but most of them have QS stamped on them, are they reliable ? I know what QS is, but I do not care how fast the shifting is, as I will not buy a QS-specific front derailleur - I remember some posts in this forum, where people suggest one should stay away from any QS shifters ?
    People confuse QS (applied to the entire Campagnolo lineup) with Escape (Veloce and Below) which only allows shifting one cog smaller per lever actuation.

  10. #10
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    Well, I am changing to a 34 / 46 setup, my front mech is Chorus CT, so I do not care much about QS anyway.If rear shifting remains the same, I am OK with that.I found new Record medium cage mech for 229 EUR delivered...but only with carbon plate, that may wear off in time.I scavenged through European online shop for a metal one...but never found a better deal anyway.Sprockets UK warned me that a long cage Record with a double setup is a bad idea and not successful ?

  11. #11
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    Why do think you need a new RD?

    Admittedly I cannot make out from what you have written what your current or proposed drivetrain is.

    If you have a short cage RD produced any time in the last 15 years it will work with either a 10 or 11-speed shifter (leaving out 2015 Chorus/Record).

    A short cage RD will take up a total of 32T.

    So a change to a 46-34 will mean LESS need for a new RD than the 50-34 you currently have.

    46 minus 34 is 12. Leaving a theoretical spread of 20T on the cassette as within the capability of the RD. In practice it would be 12-30 if Campy 10-speed.

    In all cases, the chain needs to be correctly sized, and the "H" screw adjusted as necessary.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  12. #12
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    Because I will ride the 50 - 34 until it is worn, and a 13 - 26 cassette.I definetely want the 10 speed 13 - 29 cassette for touring with 10 kg load, which is impossible for the short cage Chorus 1998 I currently own.My 1998 pointy hoods Chorus shifters are now rebuilt with different internals, and the new indexing for post - 2000 RD.This means they do not work well with my 1998 RD anymore, not at all.Especially when changing to / from the 16t cog on a brand new cassette and a brand new chain...it is just impossible.I think I will ride with my old RD and shifters, until they die - they are problematic and cannot be sold.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixt00l View Post
    Because I will ride the 50 - 34 until it is worn, and a 13 - 26 cassette.I definetely want the 10 speed 13 - 29 cassette for touring with 10 kg load, which is impossible for the short cage Chorus 1998 I currently own.My 1998 pointy hoods Chorus shifters are now rebuilt with different internals, and the new indexing for post - 2000 RD.This means they do not work well with my 1998 RD anymore, not at all.Especially when changing to / from the 16t cog on a brand new cassette and a brand new chain...it is just impossible.I think I will ride with my old RD and shifters, until they die - they are problematic and cannot be sold.
    9-speed was a short, awkward era for Campy.

    You have been unfortunate enough to be trying to mix incompatible parts, but why go on? A minimal outlay will get you a new RD that will work now with what you have and in the future. Campagnolo Veloce Silver 10 Speed Rear Derailleur, DERAILLEURS REAR

    Don't keep making the mistake of thinking that spending more will get you a more durable or better functioning RD - it won't.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  14. #14
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    Thank you.I have already tried a brand new 9 speed Veloce RD from 2003, medium cage.It worked slightly better...I rode with it, I rode with my older RD...it is the right shifter that has some defect that cannot be repaired.I am disappointed, having paid around $ 300, incliding shipping - I expected the UK Campag service to rebuild, repair and upgrade the shifter internals and make the shifter like new.After visiting 4 of the best mechanics in my country...there is something quite wrong with the shifters.I now feel stupid for spending that amount of money - since the setup is problematic, I cannot sell it.So all I can do is ride, ride, until I wear everything off, and then upgrade to 10 speed Record.I do not mind the price differente betwen Record and Centaur.As I said, I have ridden the 10 speed Centaur and quite disliked it - many people, upgrading from Centaur to Record claim a lovely, positive shifting and I quite agree.I am stuck in a nonsese situation now.
    What mileage can I expect from my freshly rebuit shifters ? I have read user reviews on Wiggle, and 3 people said that a pair of brand-new Record shifters lasts approximately 40 000 kilometers.While not much, a slow Audax rider like me will need 6 years for 40 000 km to ride.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixt00l View Post
    What mileage can I expect from my freshly rebuit shifters ?
    I needed to replace G-springs every 2-3 years even when not riding a lot of miles and would be surprised if I ever managed 10,000 miles (16,000km) on a set but stopped paying attention to distance between my purple Avocet breaking in the late 1990s and getting a Garmin in 2010.

    UltraShift mechanism life seems to be indefinite, although moving the 90 cable bend from the housing to the shifter where it's tighter cut rear shift cable life in half. I went from 4000-4500 miles on G-spring shifters to 2000-2500.

    Other mechanical shifters with under-tape cable routing made for hoods level with bar tops share the same problem.

    I have read user reviews on Wiggle, and 3 people said that a pair of brand-new Record shifters lasts approximately 40 000 kilometers.While not much, a slow Audax rider like me will need 6 years for 40 000 km to ride.
    It depends on the mechanism (2009+ Record UltraShift, 1992-2008 G-spring) and how much you shift.
    Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 11-24-2015 at 10:41 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    9-speed was a short, awkward era for Campy.

    You have been unfortunate enough to be trying to mix incompatible parts, but why go on? A minimal outlay will get you a new RD that will work now with what you have and in the future. [url=http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/derailleurs-rear-campagnolo-veloce-silver-10-speed-rear-derailleur/campgrrr619]

    Don't keep making the mistake of thinking that spending more will get you a more durable or better functioning RD - it won't.
    It might.

    Campagnolo dropped the derailleur return spring tension in groups which used Escape and PowerShift levers. Such derailleurs will be more sensitive to housing drag.

    OTOH, the least expensive rear derailleurs not paired with crippled shifters will be fine. Chorus/Record attach the cage with a bolt that's easier to remove for cleaning than the lower level C-clip, although it can take over a decade for enough gunk to accumulate before you have problems with chain tension.

  17. #17
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    Campagnolo dropped the derailleur return spring tension in groups which used Escape and PowerShift levers. Such derailleurs will be more sensitive to housing drag.
    I believe that RD spring tension was dropped in 2009, then increased back again because of the complaints. Somewhere on the interwebs is a thread with Graeme of Velotech discussing this.

    My 2015 Veloce setup is working flawlessly. I was so impressed with it I started a thread.

    Could not find the Graeme quote but I did find this from Cheapskate posted a few nonths ago

    If it's of any interest, I have always used the "old style" Centaur RDs with the narrow parallelogram [from the early 2000s up to around 2010 (?)]. But I have now also got a mid-cage "wraparound" parallelogram Veloce as well, not sure if it's 2014 or 2015 model year.

    1. Indexing is identical to the "old style" RDs.

    2. With the H-screw backed out it does lift a little higher than the "old style" RD. My "old style" RD will clear a 29t cog OK, the "wraparound" could take a few more teeth. It doesn't actually shift any better with a 29t, the "old style" shifts just fine, even with a compact chainset.

    3. It has 10 tooth wheels, the same wheels as my "old style" Centaurs.

    4. It has a substantially stronger parallelogram spring - the spring which pulls cable through when you shift with the thumb button.

    Last item might explain why I could never pass the Campag "1 kg lift test"??? My old style RDs, aged from about 2002 up to 2010 or so, will only pull about 0.6 kg. I haven't tested my "wraparound" RD but I bet it pulls 1 kg - so its spring might be nearly twice as strong??

    I remember Velotech saying that some frames with internal routing had problems with cable friction, maybe the stronger spring is to solve that problem??

    I can feel the difference when shifting - it takes significantly more effort on the finger paddle to make a shift. I don't like it, but it's purely personal preference. On the other hand, my winter bike frame has poor cable routing and it's always been marginal for shift quality, the "wraparound" RD does seem to take away the marginality.
    Last edited by bikerjulio; 11-23-2015 at 02:20 PM.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  18. #18
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    Re shifter life

    I've got a 25,000 miles on one bike with 2010 (?) Ultra-Shift levers, the new shape detent disk ones. I just put a brand new out of the box shifter, same type, (that has been on my shelf since for a few years) and I can't tell the difference. So I suspect 40,000 km is a low estimate.

    I can't see what would wear out on these shifters, maybe the interior of the detent disks. But I think it would take a very long time. Much longer than the G-springs?

    Re RD

    I swapped my winter bike to my mid-cage wraparound 2015 RD. I was having problems with a 29t cassette using the "old shape" Veloce RD. It was occasionally skipping in 29t and 26t. I think my winter bike has a short derailleur hanger, so the RD wouldn't clear the 29t. I am running 29t on my summer bike with the same RD and no problems for thousands of miles. The winter bike RD hanger is about 3-4 mm shorter than the summer bike.

    The 2015 "wraparound" RD clears a 29t very easily, with the Height screw only about half way out. I bet it would clear a 32t easily. The 2015 RD seems to have solved my 29t & 26t skipping and it otherwise shifts just as well as my "old style" short cage. I do think the spring tension is higher on the new RD, it takes more effort on the finger lever and my slight cable stiction problems seem to be gone. Only 50 miles yet so early days!!

    So @ OP I think the answer may be

    * all 10s stuff is compatible as far as indexing goes, anything will work with anything

    * the safest bet is the current generation "wraparound" RDs
    - strong tension spring means they'll work with any levers and frames with non-ideal cable routing (e.g. internal routing). Some at least of the "old shape" RDs have lower spring tension, I can't speak for all versions of course
    - high lift means they will work well with big cassettes e.g. 29t, 30t. The "old shape" RDs are marginal with 29t, they work well on some of my frames but not others.

    So I am running 50/34 compact + 29-13 cassette on my winter bike using 2010 (?) Veloce Ultra-Shift levers and a 2015 mid cage Veloce RD and it all seems to work "perfectly". I expect I could get a short cage to work, but I don't have one of those lying around.

  19. #19
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    Thanks ! What is a " wraparound " RD, how does it look like ? I found brand new mid-cage Record Titanium RDs for sale, I think they are from 2010 :

    https://www.bike-components.de/de/Ca...-10-fach-p401/

    Or I can make a Best offer and if the seller accepts...I can buy 9 speed shifters and keep my current setup...

    1999 Campagnolo Record 9 Speed Ergopower Shifters | eBay

    It is just that I have the money now to buy spares for a few years in advance, while 9 and 10 speed shifters and derailleurs are still available.I do not want 11 speed, due to the ridiculous chain and cassette prices, and limited lifespan.I like the 13-29 in 10 speed, but I do not think I would need a 12-29, even with a 46t chainring.I just spin up and when I hit 120 rpm, I let the bike coast.

  20. #20
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    Cheap is referring to the 2009-2014 RD design that came with the introduction of 11-speed. The one you show is the 10-speed older design, 2008 or earlier.

    The maximum sprocket sizes and capacities quoted in the text are incorrect and misleading.

    Sorry but you continue to make a bunch of wrong assumptions:

    ........You do not need a mid-cage.

    ........There's nothing wrong with the longevity of 11-speed.

    ........11-speed Chain and cassette prices are not ridiculous, and the compatibility with Shimano cassettes is a big plus.

    The 9-speed shifter you show is fine if you want to stay with a 9-speed setup, but for that price you could practically buy a new current group. Not the best choice for someone on a "limited budget". Mirage, Veloce, Athena and Chorus shifters of that era had identical internals to Record.
    Last edited by bikerjulio; 11-24-2015 at 05:50 AM.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  21. #21
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    Thanks for the advices - I am a novice, so making wrong assumptions is to be expected.Mr.CheapSkate said he had occasional skips in the 26t and 29t - maybe this is what I might get with the older Record 10 speed RD I have showed ?
    My CX bike has 42 cm chainstay lenght.About the mech cage, since the price is the same, I would get the mid, over the short cage, for just in case.I am not interested in a whole groupset, as I already have brand new spare parts - cables, bottom bracket, brand new TRP CX 8.4 brakes, two brand new Chorus CT FDs, and a few brand new chains too.So buying a whole groupset is useless for me.Plus, most groupsets are offered in Europe with either 11-25 or 12-25 cassette, that I find not the best option for touring.
    Note that I deeply appreciate everybody`s time and effor to help me By limited budget I meant that I cannot afford a brand new bike with Chorus or Record - LBS insist that I buy a whole bike and would not bother with spare parts...But hell yes, I can afford to buy spare shifters and RDs.
    As for 11 speed lifespan...there are numerous threads over forums comparing the longevity of Campagnolo 10 and 11 speed setups.I hate shimaNO and I would never buy anything from them or their other brand names.Most their cassettes start with 11 and 12 cogs, that I never use anyway, I prefer spinning.And finally...The most affordable 10 speed cassette is the Veloce 13-29 for 38 EUR, while for 11 speed, there is only a Chorus one for a whopping 96 EUR.
    Last edited by Fixt00l; 11-24-2015 at 05:56 AM.

  22. #22
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    Cheap and I don't have the exact same opinions or experience.

    My cross/gravel bike is 10-speed Centaur with the older style short cage RD (same geo as the Record you show), and running the 12-30 Centaur cassette most happily. His skipping was something other than the RD itself (short hanger?).
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    His skipping was something other than the RD itself (short hanger?).
    Yeah I think that's exactly what it was (buried in one of my posts above).

    My summer bikes work fine with 12-29 and an "old style" 2010 short cage RD. I have to wind the H screw riiiigggght out to clear the 29. But I have done thousands of miles like this, no skipping. My winter bike however skips with 12-29 and the same RD. The RD hanger does seem to be about 3-4 mm shorter on the winter bike, and I can see that the jockey wheel is very close to the 29t cog, so that probably explains it.

    That's why I said in my post above that I think the "old style" short cage RD is marginal with 29t - it depends on other factors (RD hanger length, maybe other factors e.g. chain length).

  24. #24
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    @OP

    If your problem is definitely the RD, then I would spend as little as possible. As BikerJulio says, I think all 10s RDs since 2000 have the same indexing.

    Are you certain your current RD will NOT work with a 10s 13-29t? Why not get a 13-29t Veloce cassette and try it? That's what I did. You might have to play with the chain length. Budget €40-60.

    If your current RD doesn't index correctly, then you need a new RD. BikerJulio and I both think that any RD from 2000-2015 will work, provided it clears a 29t cog. I think the short cage 2010 model is marginal with a 29t, but the mid cage 2015 model is fine. Budget another €60 or something.

    The "old style" RD I was referring to is like your Record Ti in your photo. Mine is:-
    CAMPAGNOLO CENTAUR 10 SPEED REAR DERAILLEUR
    I use this exact model with a short cage.

    What I call the "wraparound" RD is the current 2015 model:-
    Veloce Rear Derailleur - Components Campagnolo
    I have this exact one with a mid cage. The parallelogram is very wide and "wraps around" the rivets, that's why I described it like that

    They both work exactly the same, apart from lifting to clear a 29t - the new one does it better than the old one.

    From reading your Record Ti page, I think what I said above about 29t is not relevant to the mid cage. Your mid cage Record Ti RD says ""Zähnezahl größtes Ritzel: 29" which I think is max cog: 29t. And for the short cage it says max cog: 26t. So I am trying to make an old style short cage work with a 29t and as I said, it barely lifts high enough, it depends on the bike. It sounds like the mid cage lifts higher so it should work better with a 29t.

    Why not start simply and cheaply:- get a 13-29 cassette. See if it works with your chosen 10s levers and current RD. If it doesn't, identify the problem (indexing, skipping, friction, etc). Then try the cheapest option - a 2015 model mid cage Veloce RD. You might even go short cage, but maybe not for 12-30 cassette. I think it will be fine, but obviously I can't guarantee it!!

  25. #25
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Thanks! To clarify...I think buying a few sets of shifters and a few sets of RDs, this is why I am hesitating so much.Now...my Chorus 9 speed shifters are definetely problematic, despite being professionally restored and upgraded to work with post - 2000 RD.I have ordered and tried a brand new Veloce 9 speed mid-cage RD from 2003...I do not think it is worth it.The 1998 Chorus RD I have with replaced jockey wheels does not work flawlessly with my shifters, nor does the Veloce, but I like it better.So, I returned the Veloce to the seller.
    I might go at 10 speed for touring, because I put a maximum of 12 kg load on my 11 kg CX bike.Having weak knees means I can benefit from a 29 or even a 30t, when riding that bike for Audax.Although I am not sure if the 12-30 cassette is worth it, as it is double the price, and I think I do not need a 12t cog, even if I eventually get a 46t chainring.
    So...I will wear out my current problematic shifters first, and the 3 brand new 9s chains I have.The Chorus short cage RD is fine, but it needes pre-2000 shifters to index correctly.

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