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  1. #26
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    You can build muscle by weight lifting

    I can agree with some of the stuff CoachT is saying but I can easily disagree.

    [QUOTE=reikisport][QUOTE=lawrence]If you lift heavier weights with low reps or even enough weight to do medium reps, you will build muscle. You need to make a decision. Muscle is heavy. Heavy will hurt your biking. How much muscle do you want to put on?


    Quote Originally Posted by CoachT
    This is a common misconception. Lifting heavy weights with low reps (2-6 rep range) builds strength. Not muscle!
    Also it is very hard to put on more then 5-10lbs of muscle through the course of a year. Diet plays a big part. Plus if you're still doing aerobic work on a regular basis that will make it even harder.

    Also to the injury factor that someone else pointed as a reason not to strength train. most people who get hurt doing strength training fall into one (or more ) of the following.
    1Poor technique
    2 poor form
    3 more weight then they can handle
    4 using the momentum muscle
    5 not knowing how to do the exercise to begin with.
    These are very common among newbie's even more so among men in general as we know everything and refuse to ask "am I doing this right?" My favorite is "I think I need to add more weight" When they can't do the exercise right to begin with.
    CoachT
    I agree with the 5 points above. All good points and valid. If you haven't been to the gym for a while, it's good to start with very light weights for several weeks. And there is nothing wrong with just pushing the bar with no weights.

    Regarding that it's hard to put on 5-10 lbs. of muscle in a year. I disagree. I walked in to a gym at 220 lbs with a body fat around 30%, exactly one year later, I weighed 242 lbs, body fast was at 21%, I lost 8" in the waist, and 7 1/2" in the thighs. I say the 22 lbs that I put on in a year is muscle. It's certainly not fat since I lost inches and my body fat % went down. And since I lost inches, I lost body fat, I put on more muscle than 22 lbs. If I maintained my weight at 220 lbs, and lost 8" and brought my body fat down, I would say I got rid of fat and put muscle on. That 8" of fat that weighed something, was "replaced" by muscle just to maintain my existing body weight. When I weighed 22 lbs more, not only did I put on 22 lbs. of muscle, I put on more lbs of muscle than 22 since I lost 8" of fat. So I believe putting on more than 5-10 lbs of muscle in a year is very possible.

  2. #27

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    I regret that I omited "on average " . Everyone is different and genetics plays a big part.
    Also when you started did you come from a sedemtary background if so yes it's very common for people who didn't exercise to have great gains. Also what else where you doing? Cycling/aerobic work? Creatine? Age/ gender/genetics also play a big part.
    but for "most " I stand by my statement.
    How was your BF% measured?

  3. #28

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    Be wary of gym trainers...

    Quote Originally Posted by moschika
    i am meeting with a trainer at the gym. I will let him know what i'm hoping to get out of my visits there and hope to come up with some kind of plan. i may print this out as a guide.
    You can't expect them to know jack squat about helping endurance athletes. I have a very negative opinion of them from my local Golds Gym where I repeatedly overhear them giving horrible advice, not correcting form mistakes, etc. For cycling, you need a cycling coach...otherwise stick to the books. There are more than a couple out there for cross-training for endurance athletes.

    Good luck.

  4. #29
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    I prefer the gym to the trainer because I like to get off the bike for ten or twelve weeks during the winter. Also, my local gym has some very nice scenery, espescially on weeknights. I'd recommend doing leg presses over squats (easy to hurt your back with squats), at relatively high reps (16-20), 3 to 5 sets twice a week, and calf raises the same way. Use a weight that allows you to finish off in good form. Do a good warmup and cool down on the Lifecycle or elliptical, and easy recovery the day after. Also make sure you're getting enough protien to rebuild the muscles.

    And don't forget the upper body. Work your arms, chest, and upper back as well as the core (abs, obliques, and lower back). Again, keep the reps at 16-20 and pay attention to your form, the goal being definition, not size.

    You can also get a good interval workout on the Lifecycle.

    And don't forget to stretch!
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  5. #30
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    I had been working out with dumbbells, body weight exercises, running, and doing Ultimate Fighting, boxing, judo, jui-jitsu on a daily basis and some biking. The previous year before I had lost 70 lbs. I had my body fat analysis done with some type of laser on the bicep. The gym is in partnership with the local hospital so I would assume this would have been a very accurate way of measuring body fat. I had questioned the method and the next day went to another local gym that was offering free body fat analysis. They did it by connecting your finger and your toe to a metal clip and passing electricity through the body. They were both exactly the same. So now I feel the laser is an accurate way of doing it.

  6. #31
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    yeah, i was a bit disappointed in my meeting. though I think i was getting something else. either way learned a few core exercises, all with minimal investment. there was also a bit of a language issue - he was jamaican and a little hard to understand sometimes.

    might just have to put together my own sort of "plan".
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  7. #32
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    If you don't want to build up much muscle (which is actually hard to do anyway), I'd try doing a full body workout each time you go to the gym (2x to 3x per week) and doing two sets of 15. Just do all your lifting in a circuit fashion, one exercise right after another (maybe put non-related muscles together like push pull activities or upper body and legs). Maybe do the trainer on the off days and even run to the gym instead of driving.

    I used to lift a lot more in the past, but when you haven't lifted in a while and go into the gym trying to do 4 sets of 8 and put up serious weight, it makes you much more prone to injury. A lot of reps reduces that chance. Just my two cents.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by moschika
    I joined a gym for a few months while the weather, daylight, etc are big barriers to getting on the bike. Anyone have suggestions on the kind of workout, specifically weight training to complement cycling. need to lose the spare bike sitting on my belly and i'm definitely not getting the mileage to make that happen. I can usually go for a ride on weekends, but it's during the week, in the evenings when I have time left to anything else.

    any ideas would be appreciated.
    5 years ago, before my 2nd child was born, I did some serious lifting during the winter and I was unbelievely stronger following year.

    I got most of the ideas from the Training Bible by Joel Friel and tweaked it little bit for me.
    Here is my regimen.

    I rode 4 days a week follow by 1 session for upper body(once a week) work out and 2 sessions of lower body (twice a week).

    For upper body - All of them were done on superset. 4 set/15 reps of slight incline bench follow by pull up. 4 sets/15 reps of decline bench follow by bend-over barbell rows.
    3 sets of shoulder press follow by 3 sets of lateral raise (compound set).
    4 sets of tricep press down follow by bicep curl (barbell or dumbbell). I threw in 3 set of forearm curl when time permitting

    Lower body - 6 sets of leg press (25 reps+) immediately follow by 6 sets of deadlift (25+reps) . 4 sets of standing calf raise follow by 4 sets of Donkey calf raise (25 each).

    Caution, start with less sets/reps and build it up .

    Following year, I had one of the best season ever. I had the super explosive jumps whenever it was needed and really help me with the sprint finishes and uphill attacks...


    Good luck and have fun!

  9. #34
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    To clear up some misconceptions..

    Quote Originally Posted by reikisport
    Lifting heavy weights with low reps (2-6 rep range) builds strength. Not muscle.
    When I was lifting, about the time Arnold Schwartzenegger was winning body building contests, the standard wisdom was lifting heavy weights tore more muscle fibers and stimulated growth. You know, "No pain, no gain." Adapting to ever larger weights, the muscles get larger and stronger.

    Pundits differentiate between strength and power. If not strength, would you apply the term power to large muscles?

    The best book I've read on cycling physiology was written by a physician. He describes fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers, present in nearly equal amounts in all muscles. The fast twitch burn glycogen stored in them, deliver awesome power, but when the glycogen is used up, need to rest and recover. These are the muscles stimulated in lifting weights, as well as quad busting low rpm climbs.

    The slow twitch fibers can use oxygen for energy, so they can go for long periods of time. They don't grow as thick as the fast twitch fibers, so can't deliver the power in one contraction that fast twitch can. They're long and thin, think racehorse or greyhound--or Fausto Coppi. When well trained, they can burn high wattages (wattage being a measure of power) just like fast twitch, but also have endurance as long as the cardio system can keep delivering oxygen.

    Lifting light weights many times, controlling the burn, keeping it up so that the heart and lungs really kick in, that's just like pedaling fast in a gear the legs can "stay on top of." Both activities stimulate the oxygen burning slow twitch fibers, burn fat, and do all the good things a fit cyclist wants.

    So what's wrong with this scenario?

  10. #35
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    determining load:
    any tips on how to determine the load of any given weight training exercise? i hear start lighter then heavier, but how light is too light? when does it become "too heavy"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse D Smith
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  11. #36
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    I used # of reps to determine maximum I should lift

    I used the # of reps for the exercise routine that I was trying to accomplish as the determining factor before I increased the weight. If I was doing a 12-15 rep routine and I could push/lift that weight 15 times, I would then increase the weight 2 1/2 or 5 lbs. This would bring me back down to 10-12 reps. Some may choose 20 reps as a #. Anytime you lift heavy weight, you are building bigger muscles and you are taking the chance of getting injured with a heavier weight.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by moschika
    determining load:
    any tips on how to determine the load of any given weight training exercise? i hear start lighter then heavier, but how light is too light? when does it become "too heavy"?
    Spend a few weeks getting the correct motions down, building up form and a sort of 'base' strength. Then try and do your max on the various exercises, and use that as a basis for your lifting in the future.

    If you're still looking for some kind of plan, Dave Morris' book Performance Cycling has a pretty decent section on weight lifting, you may find it useful.
    Formidable Pharmacologically

  13. #38
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    I rock climb at an indoor gym. Great for upper body strength and aerobically it can be similar to interval training (from a cardiovascular sense). Its the only gym like activity I have ever enjoyed. I hate circuit training and never stick with it.

  14. #39
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    A lot of the strength gains from lifting in the 1-6 rep range are nuerological. It trains your motor systemm to recruit more fibres, so It will help with power. Power is strenght X speed, so ultimately plyometrics are probably the best way to get there. it is the 8-12 rep range that will build size, and cyclists should go there sparingly. i like the idea of doing low intensity circuits to start, so that you can get your form together and prep yur connective tissue. After 3-4 weeks of that, you can move to hypertrophy, but don't stay there long. It will bulk you up and slow you down. just use it to prime yourself for more intense efforts. if you want to go to a power phase after that, you can do a few heavy, low rep workouts. The end phase , which you can carry into the season somewhat if you have time, is a more intense circuit, using lots of body weight and core strenght exercises, with little to no rest, mixing in some plyometric jumps. i used to be a personal trainer, and i have experimented with this from year to year. a couple of years ago i tried just doing what i enjoyed, which is being a gym rat and blowing up, and then tapering down to boot camp stuff after january. I gained over 10lbs in less than 8 weeks, and was at 9-10% BF, but I was SLOW, and it took me most of the season to become competitive again. This year I kept the muscle building to a minimum, just doing circuit and core stuff except for maybe 3 weeks, and now aside from riding, I do a dumbell/bodyweight strength/core workout maybe once a week, and I am trying to get in at least a few min. of yoga almost every day. i am the lighest I have been in the spring for years, and I feel like I can do strength stuff when I want to, without it getting in the way of performance goals.

  15. #40
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    This is an interesting debate. In short I think lifting some weights and doing alternative aerobic activity will help you shift those extra pounds. I recently went back to lifting twice a week and have droped about 2 kg's that I was having trouble shifting riding the bike alone.

    Not sure how/why, but I think building muscle must burn more calories that aerobic activity does. May be wrong, just my spin.

    I think a previous poster made a good point that if your key aim is to be good on the bike outdoor or indoor riding is they key. That said I think we could all benefit from some overall conditioning.

    I gave up the bike in my late teens due to injury and got into body building. I had some good results and did gain a fair amount of muscle and had a lowish body fat of about 10-12%.

    I have to say it was bloody hard work to gain muscle size/weight. I trained very hard 3-5 times a week and the gains took years. It took me 6 yrs to get to my 'best'. I used heavy weights and low reps, light weights and high reps you name it. My point being that in my own experience gaining weight and muscle size takes a huge effort, so for most shouldn't be that much to worry about.

    Give it a crack and watch yer gut dissapear!!!

  16. #41
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    muscle tissue requires a lot of fuel to sustain itself. Your basal metabolic rate jumps when you grow muscle. The simple version is that you will burn more calories sitting still when you have more muscle. This may sound great to someone that is trying to lose weight to be faster, but just remembr that all that muscle will still need to be fed to the same new proportion IN A RACE! When I was a trainer, I would bonk catatrophically at races on a regular basis (xc mtb). I was 5'7", at 9-10% BF, and I weighed about 163lbs. I had to feed all the extra muscle I was carrying. I would be a monster for the first lap, just powering through everything, up at the front.and by the end I would be walking so I could eat faster . The reason a lot of endurance guys have trouble loing fat is because endurance training doesn't just train your muscles and cardio system. It also trains your other systems to adapt as well. You are teaching your body to use calories efficiently, and therefore your metabolism slows down. We used to always have the women at all of the gyms I worked at, that we called the "cardio queens" that only came in to use the treadmill or stair climber. It was it's own little clique. They often had the big fat asses, and never lost any weight, because they did nothing else, and trained themselves to be fat marathon walkers. We called it the cardio spiral. It was very frustrating to people until they figured it out.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by guava
    muscle tissue requires a lot of fuel to sustain itself. Your basal metabolic rate jumps when you grow muscle. The simple version is that you will burn more calories sitting still when you have more muscle. This may sound great to someone that is trying to lose weight to be faster, but just remembr that all that muscle will still need to be fed to the same new proportion IN A RACE! When I was a trainer, I would bonk catatrophically at races on a regular basis (xc mtb). I was 5'7", at 9-10% BF, and I weighed about 163lbs. I had to feed all the extra muscle I was carrying. I would be a monster for the first lap, just powering through everything, up at the front.and by the end I would be walking so I could eat faster .
    that just means your pacing and fuelling strategy was wrong, and / or you simply hadn't develop the specific fitness required for the event.

    Quote Originally Posted by guava
    The reason a lot of endurance guys have trouble loing fat is because endurance training doesn't just train your muscles and cardio system. It also trains your other systems to adapt as well. You are teaching your body to use calories efficiently, and therefore your metabolism slows down.

    We used to always have the women at all of the gyms I worked at, that we called the "cardio queens" that only came in to use the treadmill or stair climber. It was it's own little clique. They often had the big fat asses, and never lost any weight, because they did nothing else, and trained themselves to be fat marathon walkers. We called it the cardio spiral. It was very frustrating to people until they figured it out.
    losing fat or weight (it doesn't really matter which you are referring to) is simply a matter of thermodynamics. if you run a consistent calorie deficit you will lose fat and weight, likewise, if you consume more calories than you burn, you will gain weight.

    gross efficiency doesn't change that much and so a calorie burnt will always require a certain amount of mechanical work to be performed irrespective of how it is done or what metabolic pathway is utilised.

    if you consistently run a large calorie deficit then your Metabolism may slow down, but what happens then is that the power you can produce falls (And hence, the total energy per unit time falls). Efficiency doesn't change much. eat properly, and you will be able to train well.

    The cardio queens as you refer to them do not lose weight simply because they are not burning more calories than they are consuming. It has nothing to do with their efficiency. It's more likely that their workouts are not either hard and/or long enough in order to burn sufficient calories to provide a calorie deficit based on their diet.

    lifting metabolism a little through an increased muscle mass is small bikkies compared to a solid aerobic workout of a decent duration performed several times a week.

    Six hours of riding per week at 200 W, will require the body to burn ~ 4300 Cal or about two days worth of food intake for an average healthy adult male. no one will lift metabolism that much!

  18. #43
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    great routine

    Quote Originally Posted by GTScott
    I have 6-8 exercises that I do. I do 4 sets of each, 10-15 reps depending on the exercise. It takes me about 30 minutes to complete the routine.

    Here is my routine:

    Day 1/4 - Chest / Triceps (sets/reps)
    Vertical Fixed Bench Press 4/15
    Tricep Extensions 4/15
    Pectoral Flys 4/12
    Glute Kicks 4/15 (I know, this one was added for variety)
    Vertical Inward Bench Press 4/12
    Tricep Push Down 4/12
    Ab Crunches 4/15
    Modified Side Crunches 12

    Day 2/4 - Back and Biceps
    Lateral Pull Down 4/15
    Crunches 4/15
    Preacher Curls 4/10
    Seated Mid Row 4/15
    Bicep Curls 4/12
    Reverse Curls 4/12
    Modified Side Crunches 12

    Day 3/6 - Legs and Shoulders
    Leg Curls 4/12
    Shoulder Presses 4/10
    Leg Extensions 4/15
    Lateral Deltoid 4/15 (be careful with these)
    Inner Thigh Extensions 4/12
    Upright Row 4/15 (again, careful)
    Outter Thigh Extensions 4/12
    Modified Side Crunches 12
    that sounds like a great routine. You are saying each day only takes you 30 min.? What is your rest cycle inbetween exercises?

  19. #44

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    I am an elder-cyclist (64) so my regimen is probably not useful for you. I ride to the gym, about 20 min or so. I mix it up just for general fitness w/ a warm up with 30 min on the elliptical thing, with one or two days of light weight/high rep circuit weights (no rest between exercises) : flyes & bench press, lat pulldowns & rowing, quad extensions & hamstring curls; dumbell presses & curls; crunches, twists. I stay away from heavy weights and do not do any squats, leg presses or toe lifts. 2 or three days swimming about .5 miles in 30 min. working up to an hour and one mile like Vladimir Putin does, ride home. I have about a 30 minute commute that I try to do 2-4 days a week, and then at least 2 or 3 long rides a week. I am not trying to race or anything, but just trying to beat the clock and die in shape!
    David Leroy Loving, III
    Waxahachie, Texas
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  20. #45

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    I would recommend Spin classes, especially the way they are done at my local gym, proper indoor cycling. They have a periodised program, working on everything (endurance, strength etc) with a 12 week program leading up to "race day". Training with a room full of people easily gets me over the boredom factor. Also, if you don't like that days session, just sit on the bike for an hour whilst they do their class! Find a good class though, I've heard of some really dodgy ones (press-ups on the bikes? No way!!), and get a heart rate monitor for sure.

  21. #46
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    As a deployed air force member i have a different take. Being here at camp minimum security prision all i have is the gym. Here are some things that havnt been covered that i think are important.

    Number 1: Get somone to train with. If possible it will vastly help your fitness level, even if that person is not to the shape you are. Having the company and the ability encourage each other is priceless.

    Number 2: Lots of good suggestions here, however like anything you have to find out what works for you. That is a lot of trial and error,and thats why you should keep a journal. I have been here 4 months, and been doing 4 solid months of spin class, speed walking, and certain excersises. My first race is on may 31st, so i will get a chance to see what is in the tank, so to speak.

    No matter what happens on the bike, you and your health will be vastly improved by following a path heath and fitness.

    Hope this helps. Bill

  22. #47

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    I've learned to enjoy my one-hour workouts on the LifeCycle. I use the "Random" and "Manual" programs and set calorie goals for the hour. 900 is my baseline objective and 969 is my record. I always make sure I have a large fan blowing directly on me. These workouts are hard, but have an incredible impact on conditioning.

  23. #48

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    I would think A combination of strength training coupled with hiogh rep dynamic effort work
    would be benificial for riding. for max effort and dynamic effort work go to www. t-nation .com and look up stuff by dave tate or sign up and speak to some of the coaches online ask your questions and expect great answers. all the coaches are world class eric cressey was working with a guy prepering for the iron man.

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