How Much Base Training?? - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by heathb
    Just out of curiosity and completely off subject, but do track cyclists use cleats and toe straps together or just toe straps?

    And Theo Bos does have some meat on those drumsticks, he would look more impressive in person if you had to race him.

    There are several ways to go about it. Older Shimano 7400 series pedals with cleats, straps and maybe toe clips is a popular way though maybe starting to get dated. There are some pedals like Keywin's that are seen more on the track, and then some modify more traditional road pedals like Looks or Shimano spd-sl's to also use straps.

    If you go over to fixedgearfever there are plenty of posts there about the options. Lots of ways to go about it but they all tend to be pretty firmly attached.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by heathb
    Just out of curiosity and completely off subject, but do track cyclists use cleats and toe straps together or just toe straps?

    And Theo Bos does have some meat on those drumsticks, he would look more impressive in person if you had to race him.
    Track cyclists use both. Now back to the subject.

    Correlation is not causation. Big legs do not equal faster riders. And to counter your Cavendish argument, Cavendish doesn't lift weights -- ever.

    Power = force*velocity. The only time you'll use a significant amount of force is at a very low cadence (like, standing starts in track). Your peak power is typically seen at cadences around 130+rpm, which has a surprisingly little amount of force associated with it.

    Weight lifting is good for injury prevention or general health.

  3. #53
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    we used to have a very fast woman in our club. husband and babies and such took over, etc., and I miss her every day, but she was fast. She also was very slight, with great legs (not "drumsticks") and shapely -- everything. slim, nice butt (oh my), not huge. Man, could she roll. right there with the big boys.

  4. #54
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    The bigger the base the higher the peak!

  5. #55
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    To the OP. Check out these two books: Base Building for Cyclists and Performance Cycling: Training for Power, Endurance, Speed. Both have more updated training theory than Friel. They advocate for more intensity during what is traditionally the base period. Neither advocate lots of Z1,Z2 miles. I put together my training year based on a little of Friel and a little from each of these two books. Seems to work for me. I haven't increased my training time at all (in fact it has gone down). But I am slowly getting faster.

  6. #56
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    Just a few muscles:


  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 853
    Just a few muscles:

    Ahh, the peak of the doping days and the off-season steroids.

  8. #58
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    And Thor? Cancellara? Ps. i'm not advocating weight lifting for cycling performance specifically. Only injury prevention.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by function
    And Thor? Cancellara? Ps. i'm not advocating weight lifting for cycling performance specifically. Only injury prevention.

    Hushovd. Holy sh!t.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill
    is the burnout because the rider actually "lacks base" or is it mental?
    I'm not sure that I know what "lacking base" means. I know what it's supposed to mean, but the annual "base-building" period seems more about a few months of riding without hurting to preserve your mental health so that your brain is fresh enough to hurt when you really need to hurt.
    Not that mental burnout is to be dismissed, but I think people get way too dogmatic about this stuff. You see guys scolding you that you will waste your season if you ride too hard in December and January. That's BS. I rode hard last year, all year, with time and the rest of my life being my limiters pretty much all year round -- I have more time to train in the summer than in the winter, which is backwards from the gospel -- and I was never faster than last season. Last week I was out on a noon ride that in the summer is blazing fast, with the fastest riders of the district regularly killing each other. Well, there was maybe a little less bloodshed, but it still hurt like hell. Maybe not all of the district's fast guys were out there for that hour, but most of the guys out there were among the district's fastest.
    Train what you want to be able to do, pure and simple.
    +1 ...listen to this guy..(and me also by association )
    you cant say 3rd without turd.

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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by allervite
    The bigger the base the higher the peak!
    sucker...
    you cant say 3rd without turd.

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  12. #62
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    Those legs will intimidate if nothing else.

    I've seen legs like that up close in a race or two, they work and work well.

  13. #63
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    Enough that you progress to the point of riding approximately your longest goal ride for the season. If this is a 2.5hr race, then 3hrs base is plenty. If your longest is going to be the death ride or something, then you need some 5-6hr rides as winter/spring base.
    you cant say 3rd without turd.

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  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by muscleendurance
    Enough that you progress to the point of riding approximately your longest goal ride for the season. If this is a 2.5hr race, then 3hrs base is plenty. If your longest is going to be the death ride or something, then you need some 5-6hr rides as winter/spring base.
    I disagree with this training approach. I train not just to race well, but to go faster and go further all the time. My training is not based around specific races but around making me faster and more comfortable being on the bike for hours on hours.

    Put another way, the base training I do this year is not set up around *just* the races I'll do this season, but around all the long and fast rides I might do in the many years to come.

    It seems silly to me to purposefully limit the amount of riding you'd do. For me, all riding is fun, and winter is a great time for going a little slower (i.e. base building) simply because of environmental factors.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscleendurance
    Enough that you progress to the point of riding approximately your longest goal ride for the season. If this is a 2.5hr race, then 3hrs base is plenty. If your longest is going to be the death ride or something, then you need some 5-6hr rides as winter/spring base.
    Then how do you explain riders whose longest race is 4 km doing 200+ km training rides?

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by crispy010
    ....I train not just to race well, but to go faster and go further all the time. My training is not based around specific races but around making me faster and more comfortable being on the bike for hours on hours.
    base training doesnt make your go faster, it makes you more economical over your ride length.

    Quote Originally Posted by crispy010
    Put another way, the base training I do this year is not set up around *just* the races I'll do this season, but around all the long and fast rides I might do in the many years to come.
    then in your case, you are doing the right thing for you and anyone else who wants to follow a similar route, thats the way to do it

    Quote Originally Posted by crispy010
    It seems silly to me to purposefully limit the amount of riding you'd do..base building.
    yes, with your goals it might be construed as that alright...but for someone with the intention of riding 3hr races top, then 3hrs base is plenty - horses for courses.
    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle
    Then how do you explain riders whose longest race is 4 km doing 200+ km training rides?
    they have ambitions of riding long road races of that distance/time in the future.

    Now, Ive answered some of your questions, how about you answer my one?
    What is a person trying to achieve by base building?? - what do you think is the function of it?...or do you know?, or they just do it cause eveyone else does? - answer me that.
    you cant say 3rd without turd.

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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscleendurance
    they have ambitions of riding long road races of that distance/time in the future.

    Correct question, incorrect answer. Asgelle is refering to track cyclists (specifically pursuiters of all distances). They will never do long races and don't aspire to, they train for 500m to 4km races.

    The answer to the question is in the requirements of being sucessful at that disipline.

    Starnut

  18. #68

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    base training doesnt make your go faster, it makes you more economical over your ride length.
    Base training trains your body how to ride for long distances and survive. Part of that is being more economical, part of it is mental, and part of it is an actual change in how your body metabolizes fuel. By altering how your body and mind function on the bike, base training sets you up to get a lot faster later.

  19. #69
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    I think the concept of workload should not be underestimated. For guys training for track events, or even road/crit events of <2 hours, they clearly need to be able to do ALOT of intensity in training. The ability to repeat 30sec-5+ minute efforts above threshold or even above vo2max is crucial in training. I have a huge base from the winter, and I now recover much faster from very intense workouts. Not claiming a scientific fact or anything, but seems like if being accustomed to a high trianing workload (even at low intensities) can aid recovery from more intense workouts, then this would be beneficial even to track racers, who need to be able to repeat those hard efforts day after day in order to get faster.

    PhysioJoe

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