How to train to be a better climber? - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    if you go the 2x20 interval route (honestly its the best way to go) doing them at a lower cadence of say 60 will benifit climbing better than doing them at 100.. unless you climb at 100rpm then nevermind.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfrogge
    if you go the 2x20 interval route (honestly its the best way to go) doing them at a lower cadence of say 60 will benifit climbing better than doing them at 100.. unless you climb at 100rpm then nevermind.
    dang, if you're climbing at 60, think about a triple or a compact. Maybe reduce cadence to the 80s (or 10-15 rpms under your "flat" avg) for simulated climbing intervals, but 60 is just too low for most (IMH - unscientific - O).

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdamanii
    Looking for a winter routine on a trainer that will make me a little better of a climber (where I suffer the most right now.)

    Any experience here?
    I would invest in 2 items that work great together when training. They are kind of expensive, but they work like no other training tools I have used. It was money well spent.

    1. Powercranks
    2. E-motion Rollers made by Inside Ride

    These 2 tools helped me climb faster and harder this last season. I improved my lactic threshold and my legs really didn't hurt as much this season as they did the year before.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawndoggy
    dang, if you're climbing at 60, think about a triple or a compact. Maybe reduce cadence to the 80s (or 10-15 rpms under your "flat" avg) for simulated climbing intervals, but 60 is just too low for most (IMH - unscientific - O).
    Its not about racing/mid season climbing at 60 its about building power this time of year. If you legs can handle that interval set at 60 it can handle it at 80 no problem.

    Lot of guys will do 2x20 at 90+ rpm but who climbs with that kind of cadence? I vary my 2x20 cadences between 70 and lower one day and 90+ the next.... Gives me the best result

  5. #30
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    powertaps are a bit cheaper and pretty much the same thing.

  6. #31
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    I'm not a scientist, so I'll have to object to your extra-low cadence theory with my own anecdote. For several years, I worked on my cadence. I got to where I would ride around at 105+ ALL the time. I would work very hard to even use these high cadences on my trainer.

    Last year I said F-it, cadence doesn't matter from a training perspective. I know how to pick the right gear for the right circumstance, right? Well my trainer cadence went down to the mid 80s. And I do a lot of time on the trainer. But then five minutes into the first flat (cold and windy) time trial of the year, there I was, merrily spinning it up at 107.

    My point? "Training" cadences is a red herring. The resistance you are experiencing and your available gearing will dictate your cadence, not whether you've trained to spin at a certain cadence. And I stand by my comment that if you are consistently climbing at 60 rpm, you need more gearing options. That's just too low.

  7. #32
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    Just like some do single leg drills or powercranks pushing a hard gear with a low cadence will help build muscle needed for climbing.

    I never said do all 2x20 drills at a low RPM.. I said mix it up and do one low and one with high cadence. Also I didnt say I climb at 60 RPM either... im talking about a workout that will help with climbing by in a sense simulating lifting weights on the bike.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawndoggy
    I'm not a scientist, ...
    But he is. http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/setraining/

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfrogge
    Its not about racing/mid season climbing at 60 its about building power this time of year. If you legs can handle that interval set at 60 it can handle it at 80 no problem.

    Lot of guys will do 2x20 at 90+ rpm but who climbs with that kind of cadence? I vary my 2x20 cadences between 70 and lower one day and 90+ the next.... Gives me the best result
    I do my intervals at 95+ cadence, and I climb with 80ish. When I'm in form (i.e. not right now... student), my LT is 300 watts. That's true whether I'm climbing or on the flats... even though I never train at a cadence of 80, due to my ridiculously fragile knees.
    "It's hard to tell the poison from the cure, so enjoy the disease."
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  10. #35
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    Climbing at 60 cadence should be reserve for 1/2mi hills at 18% grade. Right ethan?

    "Training" at 60 cadence is worthless, imo. It's just a recipe for disaster. If you aren't strong enough to climb a hill at 70-80+ rpm, then buy a triple.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonnitro
    Climbing at 60 cadence should be reserve for 1/2mi hills at 18% grade. Right ethan?

    "Training" at 60 cadence is worthless, imo. It's just a recipe for disaster. If you aren't strong enough to climb a hill at 70-80+ rpm, then buy a triple.
    I'd say training at a 60 cadence is worthwhile under some circumstances - i.e. 120, 130% LT at 50-60 cadence for 1-3 minutes. No longer, and no less power... If you're doing LT at 60... well yeah you said it pretty well.

    There's no way I was doing a cadence of 60 on that hill. I think my left knee would have survived that... it's still screwed up like a week later from that damn "hilll".
    "It's hard to tell the poison from the cure, so enjoy the disease."
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  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by robdamanii
    Looking for a winter routine on a trainer that will make me a little better of a climber (where I suffer the most right now.)

    Any experience here?
    Maybe get lifts for your heels? :
    ...entonces, go up a quarter, then down a quarter, then up an eigth, then down an eigth, then up a quarter, then down an eigth, then, wtf, ask a ballet star or somebody, nawt me; but seriously folks, pedal with your heels down and foget about lifting on the upstroke; just get maximum drive outta your best arc over and down and oh bit o' the snap at the end, methinks. Cough, cough...
    "Language is a mood-altering/mind-altering substance." -attribution forgotten

  13. #38
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    On the spin bike at the gym I used to finish my interval routine with James Brown "Sex Machine' which runs almost exactly 5 minutes and has the repeated chant "Get up... get on up" and a nice steady 60 beat, plus the bonus of JB going "HUH!" every once in a while.

    So what I'd do is crank the resistance knob all the way down tight and stand up and keep that cadence for 5 minutes.

    Later that year when I went to Arkansas to ride the steepest hills I could find (like I do every year), I had no trouble getting up 'em all, out of the saddle, stomping away.

    FWIW.
    * not actually a Rock Star

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees
    Later that year when I went to Arkansas to ride the steepest hills I could find (like I do every year), I had no trouble getting up 'em all, out of the saddle, stomping away.
    Arkansas can die in a fire...

    Anyways, standing intervals are usually at a lower cadence and help build leg muscle. It's also really good for learning how to deal with lactic acid and increasing pain tolerance.

    A seated 60rpm, imo, is too low for anything -- even at 130%FTP for 1-3min. 75rpm is still low but can still reap as many benefits as 60rpm -- it doesn't tear up your knees as much and it helps keep your HR up.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonnitro
    Arkansas can die in a fire...

    Anyways, standing intervals are usually at a lower cadence and help build leg muscle. It's also really good for learning how to deal with lactic acid and increasing pain tolerance.

    A seated 60rpm, imo, is too low for anything -- even at 130%FTP for 1-3min. 75rpm is still low but can still reap as many benefits as 60rpm -- it doesn't tear up your knees as much and it helps keep your HR up.
    You got the ticket in Oklahoma, not Arkansas. Arkansas (Texas?) is just home to that disaster that is Texarkana
    "It's hard to tell the poison from the cure, so enjoy the disease."
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  16. #41
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    Oh yeah, that's right..heh

  17. #42
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    Stay on the scene
    Like a sex machine
    HUH!
    * not actually a Rock Star

  18. #43
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    don't eat?

  19. #44

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    Raising the front wheel on the trainer is the best way to simulate a hill inside.
    You donít have to raise it much.
    And yeah, do some low RPM stuff. It will help build your muscle endurance (as Friel calls it). ME is key for climbing!!

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_kenney
    Raising the front wheel on the trainer is the best way to simulate a hill inside.
    The main effect of a climb on riding is changing the inertial load. How does altering the angle of the bicycle do this? The relative positions of the three attachment points do not change.

  21. #46

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    I would agree with you in changing the load. Raising the front wheel puts your hips/ body at a different position and uses some muscles in a different way. I can' say scientifically what but it does. Donít you think feels different to ride up hill? Regardless of intensity...

  22. #47
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    Go and ride up some hills. I spent a day in Asheville over the holidays, and man, just one ride, 35 miles, made a better climber out of me.
    "I think you need bigger tires, I guess roadies like that vibration in their ass"
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_kenney
    Raising the front wheel puts your hips/ body at a different position and uses some muscles in a different way.
    Your body is not in a different position relative to the pedals, everything is just rotated a few degrees around the rear axle, and since muscles are used to ovecome the resistance from the pedals, not gravity, that rotation makes no difference in muscle recruitment. Of course riding up hill feels different, see my earlier post.

  24. #49

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    this is from Carmichael,
    its all I can find right now...
    " you are involving more muscles while climbing than on flat terrain. Since more muscles are being used, more blood is required for these muscles, hence a higher heart rate. "

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_kenney
    this is from Carmichael, ...
    'nuff said.

    But really, if the position of the hips and pedals don't change, how could more or different muscles be involved?

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