Joe Friel is accepting applications for clients - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    For $1500 a month, he should really move in with you.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea138
    Good point- it's much easier to train people who aren't very good. They see obvious results faster than someone who is already near their physiological limits.
    I would suggest it's more the other way round. The very good riders sometimes get that way in spite of their training.

    The less gifted (physiologically speaking) need far better training to do well.

  3. #28
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    I should clarify- what I meant was that individuals with less training will typically see faster improvements without a very specific program.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Simmons/RST
    I would suggest it's more the other way round. The very good riders sometimes get that way in spite of their training.

    The less gifted (physiologically speaking) need far better training to do well.

    To your point, I once had a coach (who coached some pretty top people) tell me that for certain workouts, it didn't really matter what I did as long as it was "very, very hard". This was in the late 90's and I really feel that coaching has come a long way since then (and I have the pin pricks on my fingers and ears to show for it) but the guy definitely had some top results. Although I can tell you that many of the people he coached were highly, highly talented.

    I think that good people will be good no matter what but the right coaching (not simply coaching) helps make them super.

    BTW, on the whole $16k a year thing, I think that it goes more like this (DISCLAIMER: PURE SPECULATION ON MY PART): I don't think that he really wants to coach individuals all that much. I think that he knows that he could do it and maybe if it's only a few people it might be okay. But he wants people who are committed and people who are going to value the coaching beyond simply "coaching," So he sets a high price that a) makes it worth his while, 2) weeds out the jokers, and c) keeps the numbers low. Let's face it, something's worth what the market is willing to bear. I bet he gets 4 to 5 people and he has a good time with it and pockets sufficient extra cash. Whether his coaching is "worth it" is going to vary from individual to individual but that's something else.
    Last edited by Sherpa23; 12-01-2008 at 08:45 AM.

  5. #30
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    I don't have nearly the experience or knowledge that some people have, but I think that your 1990's coach was onto something (for a talented rider). I have come to believe that a physically talented individual is one whom training can't mess up too badly and who benefits most by just going hard and then harder. The less talented individuals are the ones who require more finesse, more balanced workouts, more structure, to really benefit.
    I see very talented guys just killing themselves and those around them all the time. if they're on their bikes, they're going hard. and they just seem to get faster. other guys have more rhythmic ups and downs -- flying and then not so, etc., etc., and you can see when they've been riding themselves into the ground. for talented amateurs, the kind of guy who maybe was a pro and is now a master or who maybe could have been a pro or close had he not started when he was mid-thirties, I think it's pretty hard to really run them into the ground. and if they're not running themselves into the ground, they're getting faster.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill
    I don't have nearly the experience or knowledge that some people have, but I think that your 1990's coach was onto something (for a talented rider). I have come to believe that a physically talented individual is one whom training can't mess up too badly and who benefits most by just going hard and then harder. The less talented individuals are the ones who require more finesse, more balanced workouts, more structure, to really benefit.
    I see very talented guys just killing themselves and those around them all the time. if they're on their bikes, they're going hard. and they just seem to get faster. other guys have more rhythmic ups and downs -- flying and then not so, etc., etc., and you can see when they've been riding themselves into the ground. for talented amateurs, the kind of guy who maybe was a pro and is now a master or who maybe could have been a pro or close had he not started when he was mid-thirties, I think it's pretty hard to really run them into the ground. and if they're not running themselves into the ground, they're getting faster.

    Personally speaking, I think that all talent is (as far as bike riding goes) is the ability to absorb work and tolerate pain/discomfort. I have yet to find someone who agrees with me but, honestly, I think that's all there is.

    I will say, however, that if you don't have the other facets of fitness, going hard all the time won't help you. At least in my experience.

  7. #32
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    Well you have to buy a power meter as well. If I win powerball I am going to send in my application. The guy only trains 5 people at a time. Might be worth it if you are flush with cash.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by karatemom
    For $1500 a month, he should really move in with you.
    If this Joe Friel character was a very good looking woman I'd think about it.

  9. #34
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    Personally speaking, I think that all talent is (as far as bike riding goes) is the ability to absorb work and tolerate pain/discomfort. I have yet to find someone who agrees with me but, honestly, I think that's all there is.
    I agree with you.

    I agree with the other part of your post, too -- my exhibit A is a guy who used to race domestic pro like fifteen years ago and came back about a year ago. for the first couple of months that he was around, he was not invincible. he now is.

    and he IS crazy and goes fast all the time.

  10. #35
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    Sherpa, you are right on... the greatest pro's can endure or physically able to work more than those around them. The mind, and preparation over long haul, has a lot to do with winning and losing. Many people don't realize that winning is about 10% more than the average in your field and 3% more power output at the end.

    In our team races, I put one word on my seattube for opposing team to read... "PAIN"

    I love the response... it signified my will upon them... LOL
    Everyone is entitled to MY opinion...

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  11. #36

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    Michele Ferrari Trains People
    His advertisment is:

    5% of your salary and you go X amount faster.
    10% of your salary and you go XX amount faster.
    15% of your salary and you go XXX amount faster.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder07
    Sherpa, you are right on... the greatest pro's can endure or physically able to work more than those around them. The mind, and preparation over long haul, has a lot to do with winning and losing. Many people don't realize that winning is about 10% more than the average in your field and 3% more power output at the end.

    In our team races, I put one word on my seattube for opposing team to read... "PAIN"

    I love the response... it signified my will upon them... LOL
    Man, I would totally find motivation out of that.

  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder07
    In our team races, I put one word on my seattube for opposing team to read... "PAIN"
    I have a pink butterfly on my seatpost because the one sitting on my wheel is a sissy. My speed shouldn't inflict pain on anyone.

    Still...It's beyond me how Friel can charge such money and otherwise somewhat smart people pay the money.

  14. #39
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    fee

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonnitro
    Just in case you have $1500/month, or $8000 for 6 months. Because, you know, my coin jar is just overflowing with an extra $16,000/year.

    http://www2.trainingbible.com/joesbl...g-opening.html
    that kind of fee makes me feel a whole lot better about being slow

  15. #40

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    Ill just summarise mine with...
    and add that Im selling 'magic beans' for $4000..bargain at 50% off
    they are GUARANTEED to make no difference..so at least you know straight up that you are getting screwed!
    In THEORY... Theory works - M__E

  16. #41
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    I wonder if most of Friel's clients are triathletes?

    Was on a team ride with a guy who's a coach recently, and we got to talking about the business of coaching. He remarked that though he's personally a road racer and hangs with roadies, the money in coaching is with triathletes. Something to the effect of "they're willing to spend for results, while roadies feel like they deserve everything for free."

    The way he said it didn't come across bitter at all, just sort of a shrug and that's the way it is.

  17. #42
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    That's funny because it's exactly what i heard from a trainer riding buddy of mine too, also his triathletes tended to be older with more disposable income.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by function
    his triathletes tended to be older with more disposable income.
    +1. Not just "his," but closer to "all."

    Triathletes are allowed to be mediocre in all 3 disciplines and still get OK results. You can't be mediocre at only swimming, only cycling, or only running and expect to get any results.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonnitro
    +1. Not just "his," but closer to "all."

    Triathletes are allowed to be mediocre in all 3 disciplines and still get OK results. You can't be mediocre at only swimming, only cycling, or only running and expect to get any results.
    man, that's not really fair. those guys spread themselves very thin, trying to get it all in (get it? tri-ing?). if they actually focused on one or the other, the best likely would be among the best. at a certain point, barring extraordinary specific talent, endurance sports are endurance sports, and if you do well in one, you're going to do well in another. no one I know who was a good triathlete sucked at bicycle racing, and more than a few seem to have made a stronger mark in racing than triathlons once they focused.
    Lance Armstrong, anyone?

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill
    man, that's not really fair. those guys spread themselves very thin, trying to get it all in (get it? tri-ing?). if they actually focused on one or the other, the best likely would be among the best. at a certain point, barring extraordinary specific talent, endurance sports are endurance sports, and if you do well in one, you're going to do well in another. no one I know who was a good triathlete sucked at bicycle racing, and more than a few seem to have made a stronger mark in racing than triathlons once they focused.
    Lance Armstrong, anyone?
    Sorry, my intention wasn't to discredit them at all. You can get a lot further with bike racing on 10hrs/wk of riding than you can in triathlons on 10hrs/wk split between 3 disciplines. Thus, usually why they are "mediocre" at all 3 things and still get good results (because everyone is in the same boat).

  21. #46
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    I have respect for Friel for what he's written and there's no doubt he knowledgeable and probably has the science down as well as any coach in the states. Still like the rest of you I don't believe pure cyclists are going to spend this kind of money.

    I view the road to becoming a good cyclists as finding better and better riders than yourself to train with. The most that will cost you is perhaps offering to buy them lunch or dinner occasionally.

    You can't just plot away in your training diary and expect results. It's all blown out the water when you meet up with guys that are faster than you. Hook up with these guys after the race and ask if you can train with them.

    Musicians have an old saying. If you're the best musician in your group then find another group.

  22. #47
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    Traianing Tip of the Day....Go ride your bike...That will 500.00 dollars......

  23. #48
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    I bet he is. . .

    In this or any other economy, only a friggin moron would pay a 1/5 of that for a "coach." Most people having real jobs don't have time to ride/train 10-15 hours a week. Eight hours of riding will keep you in great shape.

  24. #49
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    When you are a world class athlete and your meals and sponsorships depend on your results, heck, I don't think $16,000 would be that bad. Especially if it gave me a step up on everybody else.

    That said, I'm not a world class athlete and my meals don't depend on my results. So it is self coaching for me.
    EOL RRF

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apus^2
    When you are a world class athlete and your meals and sponsorships depend on your results, heck, I don't think $16,000 would be that bad. Especially if it gave me a step up on everybody else.

    That said, I'm not a world class athlete and my meals don't depend on my results. So it is self coaching for me.
    $16,000 can get you a lot more than just Friel...

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