BB housing compatible with Tiagra 4700 BB ?
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  1. #1
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    BB housing compatible with Tiagra 4700 BB ?

    Hello there ! Its my first post here. I have tried to understand some things about BB and compatibilities in general but i only get the simple things. I am going to upgrade my road bike with the new tiagra groupset and i have a simple question . Will the BB of the groupset fit the BB housing of my frame ? i have pictured my frame so you can tell me . Thanks a lot in advance !
    Forgot to say that the groupset will include this : Shimano BB-RS500 BB Cups (Tiagra 4700)
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    Last edited by Purebred; 12-15-2015 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    Looks like you have a threaded bottom bracket, so yes the Shimano will fit. You will need to know if your BB is English or Italian (most likely the former).

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    Looks like you have a threaded bottom bracket, so yes the Shimano will fit. You will need to know if your BB is English or Italian (most likely the former).
    Agree and would like to add: In order to distinguish BSA (=English) from ITA (=Italian), you may want to measure the width of your BB shell (excluding any BB cups) and have a closer look at the cups with respect to any (tiny) numbers/letters which might be engraved/printed on the outer diameter.

    Further, I guess you are aware specific tools will be required to remove the existing BB and crank set and mount the new BB?

  4. #4
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    Hello again ! Appreciate all the info so far. I have ordered my Tiagra groupset with the bbrs500 cups. Just measured the housing width and its 6,7-6,8 cm that means 68mm. Im Italian or Bsa im confused . Reverend thanks for your concern. Yes im aware of some extra tools that are needed . (many vids on youtube help me assemble all the stuff needed )

  5. #5
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    Confusion is OK. It's taken me years to figure out all the permutations.

    At 68 mm the shell is English threaded which is by far the most common today.

    The drive side cup is reverse threaded, meaning you turn clockwise to loosen. And vice versa.

    Non drive side is conventional.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

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    How many drivers does a buggy have?
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    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
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  6. #6
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    Bikerjulio im thankful to you too mate. Im also glad i wont have to spend another 15-20 euros to an extra bb cup set cause i ordered before im 100% sure about my type of housing. So thank you all for your infos and ill be back with footage of the rebuild

  7. #7
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    The right tools are needed both to remove what you have ( I'm not sure from the photo) and to install the new cups. It may be worth finding a friendly bike shop to do it for you.
    Last edited by bikerjulio; 12-22-2015 at 03:56 AM.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  8. #8
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    +1 to what bikerjulio says. While the outboard cups for the Shimano bottom brackets are easy to install it is always difficult to get the right tool for the Shimano version that you have. Sometimes there are running changes that require new tools. As an example, the spline tool for the Tiagra bottom bracket is not the same as that used for 105.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    As an example, the spline tool for the Tiagra bottom bracket is not the same as that used for 105.
    i find it ridiculous. Ok i understand the differences that should exist between the italian people ( Campy ) and the Shimano for example on the cassette freehub but dont understand differences between tiagra and 105 . Really should exist some universal type bolts ,tools etc at least among the earth priced groupsets. My search continues

    Cant wait for my order !!!!!!
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    Last edited by Purebred; 12-22-2015 at 02:05 AM.

  10. #10
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    Too late, but I would have recommended the Ultegra BB. Only a couple of dollars more, but twice as good as the Tiagra version. So based on what you ordered, you are going to need an Octalink or the appropriate tool to remove your square taper BB, then the tool specific to mounting the Tiagra cups and for the left-side crankarm preload.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purebred View Post
    i find it ridiculous. ... Really should exist some universal type bolts ,tools etc at least among the earth priced groupsets. My search continues
    While I am not Shimano's advocate, in this case I plead "Not guilty". Actually, Shimano's Hollowtech II crank set design is the best ever in terms of user friendliness and tool requirements.

    In respect of the different outboard BB cup designs, the story is that there is
    (a) the original design around 25/37 x 5(?) ball bearings - older Dura Ace, older Ultegra/105, current Tiagra
    (b) the recent design around smaller bearings - current Dura Ace, current Ultegra/105 (lighter and, as they say, more durable though - to be proved yet)

    While both designs are different in the outer diameter of the splined area, Shimano do provide an adaptor with any recent cup design BB (at least if it comes in a retail package). Even if you happen to buy an OEM version, the adaptor is inexpensive.

    So do not hesitate to buy a tool for the original cup design as this will fit the current Tiagra cups, most other manufacturers' cups (many have adopted the original Shimano design), and - with the adaptor - any recent design Shimano cups. (By the way, the adaptor effectively prevents marks in the aluminium cups which frequently appear if there is direct tool/cup contact).

    Picture: Original vs. recent (smaller) cup design, tool for original cup plus adaptor for recent cup
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    Last edited by Da_Reverend; 12-23-2015 at 08:21 AM.

  12. #12
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    Wish I could agree to that being completely true, but I can tell you that the tool that fit my Tiagra BB would not fit the new Ultegra BB that I replaced it with regardless of the adapter. YMMV but that was the fact for me. The adapter that came with my Ultegra BB served no purpose.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    Wish I could agree to that being completely true, but I can tell you that the tool that fit my Tiagra BB would not fit the new Ultegra BB that I replaced it with regardless of the adapter. YMMV but that was the fact for me. The adapter that came with my Ultegra BB served no purpose.
    In fact there are some tools (non Shimano) which did fit the original design Shimano cups (e.g. current Tiagra) but are not compatible* with the adaptor that comes with the recent design Shimano cups.

    For further details, see e.g.:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FphuJdOMn5g

    However, if you purchase a Shimano TL-FC32 or TL-FC36 (or the "Pedro's" wrench in my picture), these will work with both cup designs.** (The TL-FC32 is certainly not a beauty but at some USD 10 an inexpensive tool for the non-frequent user.)

    For further details regarding Shimano tool compatibility, pls see document "DM-FC0003-05" (p9 & p10 in particular):
    SHIMANO Dealer's Manual / User's Manual

    *) Note: That at first also was the case with my nice Chris King socket tool, but after some filing (of the adaptor, of course!) I managed to make it fit.

    **) Original design as a direct fit, recent design by means of the adaptor.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Reverend View Post
    ... In respect of the different outboard BB cup designs, the story is that there is
    (a) the original design around 25/37 x 5(?) ball bearings - older Dura Ace, older Ultegra/105, current Tiagra
    (b) the recent design around smaller bearings - current Dura Ace, current Ultegra/105 (lighter and, as they say, more durable though - to be proved yet)

    While both designs are different in the outer diameter of the splined area, Shimano do provide an adaptor with any recent cup design BB (at least if it comes in a retail package). Even if you happen to buy an OEM version, the adaptor is inexpensive.

    So do not hesitate to buy a tool for the original cup design as this will fit the current Tiagra cups, most other manufacturers' cups (many have adopted the original Shimano design), and - with the adaptor - any recent design Shimano cups. (By the way, the adaptor effectively prevents marks in the aluminium cups which frequently appear if there is direct tool/cup contact).
    ...
    While my tool recommendation stands, I need to correct the above as follows:

    In respect of the different outboard BB cup designs, the story is that there is
    (a) the original design around 25/37 x 5(?) ball bearings - older Dura Ace, older Ultegra/105, current Tiagra
    (b) the recent Dura Ace/XTR design around smaller bearings (lighter and, as they say, more durable though - to be proved yet)
    (c) the recent Ultegra/XT design around smaller bearings BUT for some reason with a slighly larger cup diameter (with respect of the splined area) resulting in tool incompatibility

    However, there is still a way to get away with just one tool (if you pick the most versatile option) - see chart attached (split due to file attmt limitations).

  15. #15
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    Hello again mates after months of life big issues keeping me away from bike and free time .
    I have updates on my issue. After months of recieving my order still havent fitted them on my bike . (big life issues ) . Meanwhile a real deal online made me buy a Felt (my first real road bike) which had Sora groupset. So i decided to swap Felt's Sora with the new Tiagra and move the Sora groupset to my noname alluminum bike. So i have a question.
    From those things ive learned so far (and with your big help and infos) and as both cranksets are Hollowtech 2 i can simply remove the crankset from the Felt and put the Tiagra to the allreday installed cups right ? I also got some pics showing the only difference i see on the Felt's cups and the ones that came with my order. The cup of the bbrs500 read NG. From sope pics online i saw other letters too. Is it something like production code or somethings ? (but same dimensions numbers etc.) 20160430_151005.jpg
    Last edited by Purebred; 05-21-2016 at 02:23 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purebred View Post
    as both cranksets are Hollowtech 2 i can simply remove the crankset from the Felt and put the Tiagra to the allreday installed cups right ?
    Correct.
    use a torque wrench

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