Broken Dura Ace Bottom Bracket Cup - Page 2
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  1. #26
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    Take it to a machine shop with a lathe, a small one, he can lathe it out, but it's going to cost you.
    Don't use locktite, except for the lowest level on anything.
    How in the world would you mount a bike frame in a lathe??? Especially a small one? What rpm would you spin the frame at? What would you chuck it to?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    How in the world would you mount a bike frame in a lathe??? Especially a small one? What rpm would you spin the frame at? What would you chuck it to?
    Well, you have to first saw off the downtube, seattube, chain stays so it clears the lathe, then you can clamp the chuck onto the bb shell on the other side. Piece of cake!

  3. #28
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    [QUOTE=gwwilliams;5353949]
    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Never LocTite. Never.



    When I first purchased the frame in 2000, I had 9 speed Dura Ace on it and the BB kept coming loose. After this happened several times Serotta recommended LocTite. I have had several BsB on it since then and have always used LocTite with no problem.
    I'm sorry but LocTite is NOT the way to keep a bottom bracket from coming loose. I am very familiar w/ those Dura Ace bottom brackets and I have a substantial amount of experience w/ Serotta frames. As much as I hate anti seize that would be the proper thing to use.
    As far as removing the remnants of your cup from the frame I'd try the cold thing first. Then I'd move to a Dremel w/ cutting wheel.
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  4. #29
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    I took it to Spokes etc. in Vienna where I originally bought the frame and by the time I got home they had called and already removed the BB. Why it took the other shop a week to tell me they could not remove is a mystery to me. Will get the bike bake tomorrow.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwwilliams View Post
    I took it to Spokes etc. in Vienna where I originally bought the frame and by the time I got home they had called and already removed the BB. Why it took the other shop a week to tell me they could not remove is a mystery to me. Will get the bike bake tomorrow.
    Good! The picture just looked like someone did a rather hack job trying to remove the cup. Asked about the other side only to see if the issue is likely with seized thread, or just knowing how to remove a broken cup, sounds like the latter.

    Nice time of the year to ride around here, hope you're back in the saddle soon!

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwwilliams View Post
    I took it to Spokes etc. in Vienna where I originally bought the frame and by the time I got home they had called and already removed the BB. Why it took the other shop a week to tell me they could not remove is a mystery to me. Will get the bike bake tomorrow.
    I used to live in Vienna, and have always found their mechanics to be among the best in the area. There's a few home mechanics, like Nova, that no doubt have a wealth of experience, but commercially, I trust Spokes in Vienna.

    Happy to hear that the BB shell came out!
    Wake me up when it's alarm green.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    How in the world would you mount a bike frame in a lathe??? Especially a small one? What rpm would you spin the frame at? What would you chuck it to?
    nm... I guess the mission is done..
    Well... I would leave the final answers for the machinists, they can get the job done. I would imagine they wouldn't put the bike in a lathe, but put a cutting attachment in the chuck, mount the frame off the end of it attached to the lathe frame and more or less drill it out.
    Are you trying to say they can't do it?
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  8. #33
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    I've replaced a lot of Dura-Ace threaded bottom brackets. I like them better than press-fit bearings because they have better seals. The ones I've used came with appropriate lube/thread locker on them. Be sure to tighten it to the recommended torque.

  9. #34
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    Actually that is pretty much how it looked when I took it in. They did remove the other side of the BB.

  10. #35
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    Are you trying to say they can't do it?
    I've spent many years in machine shops. Operated lathes and end mills. I guarantee there's no way they're putting it in a lathe. Maybe... maybe in an end mill. But I'd never be confident that it's square to the table.
    There's a lot of easier more effective methods

  11. #36
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    [QUOTE=gwwilliams;5353949]
    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Never LocTite. Never.



    When I first purchased the frame in 2000, I had 9 speed Dura Ace on it and the BB kept coming loose. After this happened several times Serotta recommended LocTite. I have had several BsB on it since then and have always used LocTite with no problem.
    Whenever a someone recommends loctite as a solution for bottom bracket issues, particularly a manufacturer, it is a hack solution that doesn't really address the problems that you are experiencing. The problem with titanium & threaded bottom brackets is galvanic corrosion & its a serious issue depending upon your maintenance routine. I've always used anti-seize on my Ti bike as per my manufacturer's instructions.

    If anti-seize isn't available, I would take grease any day over loctite. Loctite has its uses on some parts but the bottom bracket isn't one of them. Yes, I've had bb's come loose in the past but I always take it apart & start all over again from the top & never had any issues afterwards. Anyhow I'm glad the shop was able to get that broken bb out. I've never seen a bb destroyed like that before. It must have been way over torqued for it to fail like that. I'd be curious to see if that bb shell is within spec since you had repeated issues with it coming loose.

  12. #37
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    No problems with this BB before

    [QUOTE=stan01;5354069]
    Quote Originally Posted by gwwilliams View Post
    Whenever a someone recommends loctite as a solution for bottom bracket issues, particularly a manufacturer, it is a hack solution that doesn't really address the problems that you are experiencing. The problem with titanium & threaded bottom brackets is galvanic corrosion & its a serious issue depending upon your maintenance routine. I've always used anti-seize on my Ti bike as per my manufacturer's instructions.

    If anti-seize isn't available, I would take grease any day over loctite. Loctite has its uses on some parts but the bottom bracket isn't one of them. Yes, I've had bb's come loose in the past but I always take it apart & start all over again from the top & never had any issues afterwards. Anyhow I'm glad the shop was able to get that broken bb out. I've never seen a bb destroyed like that before. It must have been way over torqued for it to fail like that. I'd be curious to see if that bb shell is within spec since you had repeated issues with it coming loose.
    I did not have any problems with this BB before, it has been on the bike since 2011. It probably should have been replaced sooner. I am not a mechanic I take it in once a year and have it tuned up and if they don't tell me something needs changed I keep riding it. I had problem with the BB coming loose back in 2000 when I first purchased the frame. I used Loctite per Serotta's recommendation and through 3 or 4 BB since never had any problem with it coming loose. I don't think Loctite had any thing to do with the current problem. They did not put Loctite on the new BB, so we will see if the problem with it coming loose happens again.

  13. #38
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    [QUOTE=stan01;5354069]
    Quote Originally Posted by gwwilliams View Post
    The problem with titanium & threaded bottom brackets is galvanic corrosion & its a serious issue depending upon your maintenance routine. I've always used anti-seize on my Ti bike as per my manufacturer's instructions.
    Not sure about the galvanic corrosion claim. This effect is small with Ti and Al - nothing like with Fe and Al. When I got a Litespeed in 1998, they specifically recommended grease. I've been using it for over 200,000 miles since then with zero issues.

    And yes, thread locking compounds are a hack solution.

  14. #39
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Not sure about the galvanic corrosion claim. This effect is small with Ti and Al - nothing like with Fe and Al.
    .
    Nope. Ti and Al are opposite ends of the galvanic series. They have higher galvanic corrosion potential.
    Steel (and iron) are much closer to AL in the galvanic series making them less potential.

    Steel /AL though gets a double whammy. Slightly galvanic reaction plus steel easily rusts.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    nm... I guess the mission is done..
    Well... I would leave the final answers for the machinists, they can get the job done. I would imagine they wouldn't put the bike in a lathe, but put a cutting attachment in the chuck, mount the frame off the end of it attached to the lathe frame and more or less drill it out.
    Are you trying to say they can't do it?
    Oh, it can be done on a Bridgeport, maybe even on a drill press. But there are 2 issues:
    1) How secure is the setup, and the big one,

    2) How straight is the BB? You could run an indicator up the side of the BB tube, but is it it straight to the bore inside?

    You can endmill the shell out, provided you have JUST the right diameter mill. Or, using a more sophisticated open vertical mill you can circle-interpolate with a smaller mill, but you'll still have to pick out the last bit of metal out by hand. You're talking a $200 job, easily.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Nope. Ti and Al are opposite ends of the galvanic series. They have higher galvanic corrosion potential.
    Steel (and iron) are much closer to AL in the galvanic series making them less potential.

    Steel /AL though gets a double whammy. Slightly galvanic reaction plus steel easily rusts.
    Thanks. In layman's term, the 2 dissimilar materials act like a battery. I think grease is fine if you do an annual overhaul & are religious with your maintenance. I myself tear my bikes apart every year & clean, regrease/lube every part & then rebuild bike from the ground up. Grease can be washed out & just doing a tune up doesn't mean that things will get properly re-greased if you take it into a shop. YMMV.

  17. #42
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by stan01 View Post
    Thanks. In layman's term, the 2 dissimilar materials act like a battery.
    Yes, certain batteries actually operate through this process.

    Just because two metals are dissimilar doesn't automatically mean you'll have a galvanic reaction. In order to have galvanic corrosion, the two metals must be in the presence of an electrolyte (ie water). If you never ride your bike in the rain, you'll likely have no issue.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Yup! Plus the frame has more thermal mass. It's going to suck the heat away from the BB. It'll never ever ever ever grow faster than the BB does, even if had a greater coefficient of thermal expansion... which it doesn't

    The proper method would be to fill a zip lock with ice water and stuff it inside the BB to shrink it. Or blast it with a co2 cartridge.
    Harris Teeter which has many locations and likely isn't far from the OP sells dry ice for $2 or $3 a lb-great for cryo fitting/defitting.

  19. #44
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    [QUOTE=gwwilliams;5353949]
    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    I have had several BsB on it since then and have always used LocTite with no problem.
    You got one now. You never should use Loctite on a BB.

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