Cable fraying with 9100/8000? - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Speaking of big loops into the rear derailleur...this is how big I make mine. I think a little (very little) extra light grease similar to Shimano Special Grease might help a little w/ longer cable life. I wouldn't think it would double how long your cable lasts since it's the repeated bending of the cable that causes it to fatigue and then fray but it can't hurt if you don't use too much.

    Ahhh, I remember you showed this pic before. Since the first time you showed this, I did some cable and housing replacements. I made the loop as long as I could without causing the chain stay end to curve so much as to negate any advantages of the bigger loop. As a result, I never did a change where the loop was as big as yours, but always bigger than the stock housing.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Speaking of big loops into the rear derailleur...this is how big I make mine. I think a little (very little) extra light grease similar to Shimano Special Grease might help a little w/ longer cable life. I wouldn't think it would double how long your cable lasts since it's the repeated bending of the cable that causes it to fatigue and then fray but it can't hurt if you don't use too much.

    I've never had a cable break or fray back there (always at the shifter end).

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    I've never had a cable break or fray back there (always at the shifter end).
    Two separate issues. The reason for the bigger rear loop is simply to reduce friction and improve shifting performance, nothing more. See SRode's post #22. But as I said in post #26, making it too big can cause too much of a bend coming out of the chain stay guide.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Two separate issues. The reason for the bigger rear loop is simply to reduce friction and improve shifting performance, nothing more. See SRode's post #22. But as I said in post #26, making it too big can cause too much of a bend coming out of the chain stay guide.
    I try to size the cable housing length so it goes straight in to the derailleur without a bend at the cable adjuster barrel; no more no less. Longer housings have more cable drag too.


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  5. #30
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    Straight into the barrel adjuster is what we're looking for. Increased cable drag due to the longer housing is miniscule, pretty much every mountain bike has full length housing these days.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Straight into the barrel adjuster is what we're looking for. Increased cable drag due to the longer housing is miniscule, pretty much every mountain bike has full length housing these days.
    Yup. I have full length housings on my gravel bike and shifting is flawless. It certainly makes cable changes easier than internally routed cables.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  7. #32
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    My preference is to have externally routed cables with cable stops and a full cable liner like Jagwire Elite cables have; lighter and stiffer than full length housing.


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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    My preference is to have externally routed cables with cable stops and a full cable liner like Jagwire Elite cables have; lighter and stiffer than full length housing.


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    I used to have piles and piles of the SRAM liners that work like that. They worked really well, we still use them on the girl's home bikes that don't have etap. The Felts are cool, you can set them up internal or external.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    While I am not a believer of most conspiracy theories, one has to wonder if the cable chewing issue on Shimano's last two generations was intentional in order to get people to spring for Di2.
    It's just physics.

    The tight internal bend needed to have hoods level with tops and under tape routing doubled the stress cycles (the original going on/off the drum, the second going around the bend) and cut life in half.

    Campagnolo suffered too. While they already had under bar tape routing, going from a cable housing bend transitioning into the hook to a 90 degree guide in the shifter cut their cable life in half.

    I went from 4,500 miles on rear shift cables to 2,000-2,500.

    Then something changed in the metalurgy with my last batch of shift cables that aren't making it much over 1000.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Nope, it happens w/ all cables. Coated, uncoated, Shimano, SRAM, Jagwire...used to happen a lot w/ older Campy shifters as well. Lots of Campy owners got poked in the thumb while upshifting.
    Campy thumb!

    While the blood wasn't nice, it did indicate you were due for replacement before shifting degraded or you were forced to ride home with just your front derailleur.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Wow. Just wow. Shimano design excellence - NOT. I regularly get over 20K miles from a set of Campy cables in Campy Chorus shifters.
    It depends on how frequently you change gears. I shift like I have ADHD and never got more than 2,500 miles out of my right Ultrashift levers down from 4,500 with classic ergos.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    5600/6600/7800 were not under the bar tape. I have a bike with 5600 shifters and never had it chew a cable. These older shifters don't wrap the cable in as tight a circle.
    This! Market wants cables under the bar tape? It doesn't aide performance either. Two solutions, DI2 or replace the cables after 2,000 miles or so. I chose the latter.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
    It depends on how frequently you change gears. I shift like I have ADHD and never got more than 2,500 miles out of my right Ultrashift levers down from 4,500 with classic ergos.
    Me too. I live in a hilly area too. Not Alps hilly but hilly enough

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    This! Market wants cables under the bar tape? It doesn't aide performance either.
    It's more that aesthetics sells. People like the neatness of not seeing purely functional items.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  15. #40
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    I love the looks of an internal routed bike. Very clean lines. I don't like the maintenance required. I'll probably pay the shop I work at to replace the internal cables/housing on my road bike, because I don't feel like doing it.
    You can't fix stupid.

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    I kind of wish it were legal to staple people in the face.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc View Post
    I love the looks of an internal routed bike. Very clean lines. I don't like the maintenance required. I'll probably pay the shop I work at to replace the internal cables/housing on my road bike, because I don't feel like doing it.
    I've done internal cable replacement and it's a real PITA. Granted I've only done it myself once. After a few more times, I'll probably get faster at it. A time consuming part of the job was making the guides - stripping outer casings of housings to make a pair of these. At least I won't have to do that part again.

    Needless to say, when I bought a gravel bike, I made sure to get one with full length housings like on a mountain bike.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc View Post
    I love the looks of an internal routed bike. Very clean lines. I don't like the maintenance required. I'll probably pay the shop I work at to replace the internal cables/housing on my road bike, because I don't feel like doing it.
    It's not that hard on most frames. What are you riding? I've got TONS of liner material, next time you're on my side of the bay stop by and I'll set you up.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    It's not that hard on most frames. What are you riding? I've got TONS of liner material, next time you're on my side of the bay stop by and I'll set you up.
    I have a 2014 Specialized Roubaix.

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    You can't fix stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDaddio

    I kind of wish it were legal to staple people in the face.

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