Cable fraying with 9100/8000?
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  1. #1
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    Cable fraying with 9100/8000?

    Is the cable fraying issue improved or still the same with dura ace 9100 / ultegra r8000?

  2. #2
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    Good question I would be interested to know the answer to.

    5700/6700/7900 and 5800/6800/9000 have the cable chewing problem. I have to replace my rear 6800 shifter cable about every 2000 miles. It appears when Shimano went to under the bar routing, they made the shifter wrap the cable in a tighter circle.
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    Same. Shimano did make it easier to open up the shifter and remove the cable. There is a 2 piece cover on the bottom of the shifter body held on by a small phillips type screw. You pull the hood forward to reveal the screw and once removed you can take off the covers and have full access to what's left of the cable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Same. Shimano did make it easier to open up the shifter and remove the cable. There is a 2 piece cover on the bottom of the shifter body held on by a small phillips type screw. You pull the hood forward to reveal the screw and once removed you can take off the covers and have full access to what's left of the cable.
    If you can't fix the problem, make the problem fixable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 202cycle View Post
    If you can't fix the problem, make the problem fixable.
    I guess Shimano's sales haven't hurt or they would have fixed this problem.
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    If you use the Shimano cable lube it helps them last a lot longer. They still break at the same place but you can get about twice the life out of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 202cycle View Post
    If you can't fix the problem, make the problem fixable.
    Yeah, I converted to di2 about eight years ago and that took care of the problem. But I'll add to Srode's comment that the Shimano cable lube is the best thing for derailleur cables, and that also applies to 1 by 12 SRAM setups on MTBs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    If you use the Shimano cable lube it helps them last a lot longer. They still break at the same place but you can get about twice the life out of them.
    I did this on my last cable change. So we'll see.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5DII View Post
    Is the cable fraying issue improved or still the same with dura ace 9100 / ultegra r8000?
    Did a gravel grinder last month. Came up on a guy with a practically-new Salsa with R8K I want to say. broke a cable and had to do the last 40 miles on a 2-speed. He still dumped my slow arse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Did a gravel grinder last month. Came up on a guy with a practically-new Salsa with R8K I want to say. broke a cable and had to do the last 40 miles on a 2-speed. He still dumped my slow arse.
    And that is why I went with Di2 on my gravel bike when I built it - too much wear and tear in that environment, plus the possibility of sluggish response from the cables getting mud/dirt in them near the deraileurs.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    And that is why I went with Di2 on my gravel bike when I built it .......
    While I am not a believer of most conspiracy theories, one has to wonder if the cable chewing issue on Shimano's last two generations was intentional in order to get people to spring for Di2.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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    Isn't the problem with the polymer coated cables rather than the shifter? I've got 2014 Ultegra triple shifters I've been using with Jagwire Road Elite cables for 4 years now with a lot of miles, and the cables are not frayed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    Isn't the problem with the polymer coated cables rather than the shifter? I've got 2014 Ultegra triple shifters I've been using with Jagwire Road Elite cables for 4 years now with a lot of miles, and the cables are not frayed.
    Nope, it happens w/ all cables. Coated, uncoated, Shimano, SRAM, Jagwire...used to happen a lot w/ older Campy shifters as well. Lots of Campy owners got poked in the thumb while upshifting.
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    i spoke to shimano before before getting my c64 to ask questions about 9100/8000 group sets. They said nothing they did should have an impact on the rear derailleur wire issue. The way I solve it is by changing the wire every 2,000 miles.

    The problem stems from how the wire bends into the shifters. People want hidden cables and that presents problems. I even looked into getting an old 7800 group set at one point but decided against it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    While I am not a believer of most conspiracy theories, one has to wonder if the cable chewing issue on Shimano's last two generations was intentional in order to get people to spring for Di2.
    i doubt it. the simplest explanation is the obvious one. mechanical has wires, so it has the issue. shimano didn't go out of their way to create a flaw. if anything the market place demanded it. nobody seems to want old style group sets with the wires popping out. Personally I would opt for it if it were available because of the longer cable life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    The way I solve it is by changing the wire every 2,000 miles.
    I got over 8000 on my last rear DR cable using the Shimano grease - a person should be able to get 5000 easy if they aren't shifting continuously and use the grease.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    i doubt it. the simplest explanation is the obvious one. mechanical has wires, so it has the issue. shimano didn't go out of their way to create a flaw. if anything the market place demanded it. nobody seems to want old style group sets with the wires popping out. Personally I would opt for it if it were available because of the longer cable life
    Those shifters suffered broken cables too. All shift cables eventually break. Shifter cables have been run under the bar tape for many a year now.

    Polymer wound cables have a short life. Don't use them if you want a cable that lasts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    The way I solve it is by changing the wire every 2,000 miles.
    Wow. Just wow. Shimano design excellence - NOT. I regularly get over 20K miles from a set of Campy cables in Campy Chorus shifters.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    Those shifters suffered broken cables too. All shift cables eventually break. Shifter cables have been run under the bar tape for many a year now.
    5600/6600/7800 were not under the bar tape. I have a bike with 5600 shifters and never had it chew a cable. These older shifters don't wrap the cable in as tight a circle.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    5600/6600/7800 were not under the bar tape. I have a bike with 5600 shifters and never had it chew a cable. These older shifters don't wrap the cable in as tight a circle.
    I've seen it. I spent some time on a bike tour pulling broken strands out of a friend's shifter. I caught mine before all strands were broken. In fact, when these shifters came out, people were complaining about breaking cables. I'll give you that the newer shifters maybe worse, but breaking cables in STI shifters was always an issue.

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    Soooo, how, where does one apply the cable grease? Do you disconnect the cable?
    Thanks

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    I apply it in 2 places

    1. On the shifter guide where the cable makes the bend on the inboard side and turns back toward the bars (generously but not stupid generous) Also the cable end which goes into the shifter, about 12 inches of that a thin layer . The bend on the shifter is the most critical part to extend cable life I think, however the 12 inches of cable keeps it slick where it makes the tight bend under your bar tape too which can help with smooth shifting.

    2. The end near the rear DR and goes through the housing loop to the DR. This area isn't going to help life but it will help it shift a bit better because that's a fairly tight turn. Just put a thin layer here on enough cable to get the part inside that tight bend in the cable housing.
    Last edited by Srode; 1 Week Ago at 04:21 AM.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    I apply it in 2 places

    1. On the shifter guide where the cable makes the bend on the inboard side and turns back toward the bars (generously but not stupid generous) Also the cable end which goes into the shifter, about 12 inches of that a thin layer . The bend on the shifter is the most critical part to extend cable life I think, however the 12 inches of cable keeps it slick where it makes the tight bend under your bar tape too which can help with smooth shifting.

    2. The end near the rear DR and goes through the housing loop to the DR. This area isn't going to help lift but it will help it shift a bit better because that's a fairly tight turn. Just put a thin layer here on enough cable to get the part inside that tight bend in the cable housing.


    Also, it helps to replace that piece of housing with a bigger loop so it's not such a tight turn.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  24. #24
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    Speaking of big loops into the rear derailleur...this is how big I make mine. I think a little (very little) extra light grease similar to Shimano Special Grease might help a little w/ longer cable life. I wouldn't think it would double how long your cable lasts since it's the repeated bending of the cable that causes it to fatigue and then fray but it can't hurt if you don't use too much.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Speaking of big loops into the rear derailleur...this is how big I make mine. I think a little (very little) extra light grease similar to Shimano Special Grease might help a little w/ longer cable life. I wouldn't think it would double how long your cable lasts since it's the repeated bending of the cable that causes it to fatigue and then fray but it can't hurt if you don't use too much.
    If grease has worked for people I have nothing base arguing that on.....but I agree. I'm pretty sure it is indeed from fatigue of repeated bending not friction per se.
    Steel wins against plastic. If it had something to do with friction inside the shifter then inside of the shifter would be gouged to heck long before the cable went.

    I've also seen cables go from looking perfect with a visual inspection to exploding a couple rides later. Gotta think there wold have been visual warning signs if it had to do with friction wear.

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