Campagnolo 11 speed Ergo shifters with 9 speed Shimano drivetrain
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  1. #1
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    Campagnolo 11 speed Ergo shifters with 9 speed Shimano drivetrain

    I am trying to run Campagnolo 11 speed Ergo shifters with a 9 speed Shimano derailleur and a 9 speed Shimano cassette on this year's cyclocross build.

    DaveSSS on Bike Forums ; mentioned previously that he measured (scientifically) that Campagnolo 10 speed shifters pull 2.5mm (of cable) five times, 3mm twice and 3.5mm twice. (and that Campy's actuation ratio is about 1.44).

    I am curious if anyone has measured Campagnolo 11 speed Ergo shifter's cable pull? Or if anyone has experience on using Campagnolo 11 speed Ergo shifters with 9 speed Shimano. This article is non-scientic, but seems to thinks that it works: http://www.cxmagazine.com/shimano-ca...-compatibility - (but they don't mention the non-linear amount of cable pull issues).

  2. #2
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    That's my future setup for a touring bike.

    I'm currently running Campagnolo 11 with Campagnolo 10 rear and shimano 10 cassette.
    I'm also running Campagnolo 10 works with Campagnolo 10 rear and shimano 9 cassettes on my winter bike.

    I don't use the j-tek or hubbub cable routing thingy either.

    Both of them work.

  3. #3
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    While I have personally measured Shimano 8, Shimano 9, and Shimano (dynasys)10 for each pull... I just took DaveSSS's word on Campy 10.

    Shimano 8 3.5, 2.5, 2.5, 2.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5
    Shimano 9 3.5, 2.5, 1.8, 2.7, 2.5, 2.5, 3.0, 3.5
    Shimano 10 (dyna) 3.0, 3.5, 3.0, 3.5, 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.0, 3.5
    Campy 10 2.5, 2.5, 2.5, 2.5, 2.5, 3.0, 3.0, 3.5, 3.5

    I meant to measure Campy 11 but never got around to it... I'll get back to you in a day or two.

    To answer your question, yes, it works. Nothing tricky (besides setting the limit screws to prevent the last two shifts). Normal cable routing.
    I have Campy Athena 11 connected to a Shimano 105 triple FD and a Shimano LX 9spd RD and 9spd cassette. It works flawlessly once you fine tune the cable tension. I have a feeling that when I change out my chain, I'll need a new cassette and plan to try what mrbubbles suggested above (campy RD and Shimano 10 cassette).

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by headloss View Post
    While I have personally measured Shimano 8, Shimano 9, and Shimano (dynasys)10 for each pull... I just took DaveSSS's word on Campy 10.

    Shimano 8 3.5, 2.5, 2.5, 2.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5
    Shimano 9 3.5, 2.5, 1.8, 2.7, 2.5, 2.5, 3.0, 3.5
    Shimano 10 (dyna) 3.0, 3.5, 3.0, 3.5, 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.0, 3.5
    Campy 10 2.5, 2.5, 2.5, 2.5, 2.5, 3.0, 3.0, 3.5, 3.5

    I meant to measure Campy 11 but never got around to it... I'll get back to you in a day or two.

    To answer your question, yes, it works. Nothing tricky (besides setting the limit screws to prevent the last two shifts). Normal cable routing.
    I have Campy Athena 11 connected to a Shimano 105 triple FD and a Shimano LX 9spd RD and 9spd cassette. It works flawlessly once you fine tune the cable tension. I have a feeling that when I change out my chain, I'll need a new cassette and plan to try what mrbubbles suggested above (campy RD and Shimano 10 cassette).
    My favorite setup was Campagnolo 10 with Shimano rear and Shimano 8 cassette, the Shimano derailleur was a rapid-rise (return spring takes the derailleur to the largest cog, so the shifting action is reversed), it was really really smooth and quiet.

    I had to give it up because when I take out a bike that has normal shifting, it screws up my brain cause I keep missing the shift. Shimano 9 speed cogs with Campagnolo 10 works close enough for my liking.


    EDIT: Btw, are you using ultrashift on your Athena setup?
    Last edited by mrbubbles; 08-19-2013 at 11:09 PM.

  5. #5
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    The 11 driving 10 setup makes sense. The sprocket pitch on Shimano 10 is 3.95mm. Campy11 pulling a Campy RD is 3.85mm. That's a difference of +0.1mm.
    The 11 driving 9 is the same difference. Shimano9 is 4.35mm and Campy11 pulling Shimano RD is 4.48mm (*actually it's 4.42). Difference of +0.13mm.
    That's based on the numbers in this chart. Being a wiki, some of the numbers are off (but not enough to break it down or debate here, just check the math if you want accurate numbers from that page).

    I'm using powershift since I was able to pick a pair up for $103 from Amazon a while ago (I posted a link in the hot deals sub forum). There is always the option of replacing the internal assembly if I want to upgrade to ultrashift, but I think I'm happy enough with ultrashift to not be bothered (it's on a touring bike afterall).

  6. #6
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    Campy 10 shifters have variable cable pull of 2.5mm five times, 3mm twice and 3.5mm twice; and Campy 11 shifters are also variable (but unconfirmed cable pulls for each shift).

    This chart states that Campy 10 shifters have an average cable pull of 2.8mm and Campy 11 shifters have an average cable pull of 2.6mm (Shimano 9 shifters have have an average cable pull of 2.5mm).

    Therefore 2.6 is close enough to 2.5 to work well. and who knows how the variable pull works with 11 speed; but enough people seem to like the Camp 1/ w/ Shimano 9 combo to recommend it. I have loads of Shimano 9 speed wheels, cassets and derailleurs - so that is my other reason (cheap wheels).

    Shimergo mechs: Shimergo | CTC

  7. #7
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    Campy 11: 2.6 - 2.4 - 2.1 - 2.4 - 2.5 - 2.5 - 3.0 - 2.5 - 3.0 - 3.0
    Total cable pull: 26mm.
    Avg cable pull: 2.6mm.

    Shimano 9: 3.5 - 2.5 - 1.8 - 2.7 - 2.5 - 2.5 - 3.0 - 3.5

    The total cable pull for Shimano 9 is 22mm; average cable pull is 2.75. (not 2.5 as reported at ctc... most likely, the person who entered the number divided by the number of speeds [9] rather than the number of cable pulls [8]).*

    How confident of am I of my measurements? More confident than any online source. Some of them could be 0.1mm off as my scale only goes down to 0.5mm increments. If I made a mistake, it's in my math (feel free to double check). Also, both measurements were taken by the same person, on the same bike, with the same RD... how's that for consistency! :P

    *The other possibility is that my barend 9spd shifters don't pull the same as an STI (but I doubt it).
    Last edited by headloss; 08-22-2013 at 02:40 PM.

  8. #8
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    My eBay Campy 11 Super Record levers arrived today - now just to build them up! Trying to decide if I want levers this nice on my seasonal cyclocross bike (probabally yes) or my road bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by headloss View Post
    Campy 11: 2.6 - 2.4 - 2.1 - 2.4 - 2.5 - 2.5 - 3.0 - 2.5 - 3.0 - 3.0
    Total cable pull: 26mm.
    Avg cable pull: 2.6mm.

    Shimano 9: 3.5 - 2.5 - 1.8 - 2.7 - 2.5 - 2.5 - 3.0 - 3.5

    The total cable pull for Shimano 9 is 22mm; average cable pull is 2.75. (not 2.5 as reported at ctc... most likely, the person who entered the number divided by the number of speeds [9] rather than the number of cable pulls [8]).*

    How confident of am I of my measurements? More confident than any online source. Some of them could be 0.1mm off as my scale only goes down to 0.5mm increments. If I made a mistake, it's in my math (feel free to double check). Also, both measurements were taken by the same person, on the same bike, with the same RD... how's that for consistency! :P

    *The other possibility is that my barend 9spd shifters don't pull the same as an STI (but I doubt it).

  9. #9
    Cathedral City, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik_A View Post
    I am trying to run Campagnolo 11 speed Ergo shifters with a 9 speed Shimano derailleur and a 9 speed Shimano cassette on this year's cyclocross build.
    The question is:

    Why?
    2016 Ritchey BreakAway (carbon)
    Full Campagnolo drivetrain - Chorus 11sp (50, 34 & 12-29)
    Zonda wheels
    Lezyne Super GPS w/Cateye speed/cadence & HR sensors
    Ritchey fork, stem, headset, bars and seatpost
    Fizik Arione VSX saddle
    Cinelli bar tape

    BeBop Pedals

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatlander_48 View Post
    The question is:

    Why?
    Why, nothing better than 2012 Campy Ultrashift in the lever department for operation, and hood shape/ comfort. I also prefer 9 speed wheels/ cassettes and Shimano has better rear dérailleurs.

    For some reason used Campy shifters are cheap on eBay (when all other Canpy drivetrain components are overpriced): and the flip side is true: Shimano shifters are overpriced used, but wheels and dérailleurs are cheap. So if it shifts accurately the real question is "why not"?

    I have some Campy 1996 Veloce and 1998 Athena shifters that are bulletproof - just work year after year, when 2 year old Shimano shifters just suddenly stop pulling cable. Granted I keep my bikes in an unconditioned garage/ shed so they are tortured by heat and cold year-round.

    I have found that leaving the Shimano shifters in a full bucket of WD40 will usually revive them - but they are no comparison to the quality and longevity of Campy shifters.

  11. #11
    Cathedral City, CA
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    Just curious as mix and match arrangements show up here with some frequency. My thought is that a group is designed to work in concert and mixing brands compromises the whole in some way. It could be function or wear or whatever. That said, there are probably some circumstances where the compromise is minor and has no real effect on usability. Anyway, it's a place where I wouldn't go, but I marvel at what people have tried and adapted.
    2016 Ritchey BreakAway (carbon)
    Full Campagnolo drivetrain - Chorus 11sp (50, 34 & 12-29)
    Zonda wheels
    Lezyne Super GPS w/Cateye speed/cadence & HR sensors
    Ritchey fork, stem, headset, bars and seatpost
    Fizik Arione VSX saddle
    Cinelli bar tape

    BeBop Pedals

  12. #12
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    Two things that encourage mixed groups are price and options... in either case, assume that the person building a mixed group prefers Campy levers and would build a full Campy group if not for price and/or options.

    Options: say you want a Campy group with a 32t or 34t rear cog... you have to use a Shimano cassette and RD. The Shimano (and SRAM) dominance of the MTB world results in a lot of gearing options that simply don't exist for Campy (which abandoned MTBs a while ago).

    Price: More or less, a Campy build requires a Campy hub and cassette... A Shimano hub/cassette is more widely available and easier to replace (important for me on a touring bike). Chain rings are not interchangeable across brands, so having a Shimano compatible crankset opens options and reduces cost.

    My Paramount has a full Campy group. Campy isn't any more expensive for bits and pieces, but a full group is expensive... since I prefer Ergos... I put Campy 11 Ergos on my touring rig because I was able to get a set of shifters brand new for $104. The best price I was finding for Shimano STIs was about $180 for the last generation 105 or the R700 series.

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