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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    Got it. Seems both noise and feel, right?

    I have to say, testing it would have made this very clear. The feel is very different between the two systems. I mean, I have not ridden Shimano but I have shifted a few times.

    All I can say is try it for a while. I have pretty much hated EVERY new shifter brand I have used, both road and mtb. For a week or two. After that, I just don't pay attention enough to notice. That might be the case for you as well.

    The only other option is to sell it. Or park it.
    Nothing against the nosie of course,I was pretty much fed up of Shimano's own smoothness and silence actually ,but I guess it's something I will have to get use to it,like going back driving a manual shift car. We'll see,there's always time to go back to Shimano.

    Now you see why in Italy we never buy italian cars,they are a total mess,cluster**** of nonsense fancy style and lame functionality..

  2. #27
    gazing from the shadows
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devastazione View Post
    Nothing against the nosie of course,I was pretty much fed up of Shimano's own smoothness and silence actually ,but I guess it's something I will have to get use to it,like going back driving a manual shift car.

    Now you see why in Italy we never buy italian cars...
    You may find the action on Campy smooths out a bit with sufficient use. Many claim that, often in the form of "Shimano starts smooth and gets sloppy, Campy starts stiff and gets smooth". Personally, I have never compared new and well used shifter action to see if there is anything to this commonly held belief.

    Italian car issues are well known: great when they run, which is far less often than should be. Italian shoes though, wonderful.

    Campy is more like the shoes than the cars.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  3. #28
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    Of my 4 bikes, three are Ultegra and one is a Chorus 11-spd one. I don't mind the feel of the shifting, and, aesthetically-speaking it's beautiful, but the thumb-shifters just seem corny to me still.
    And yes, just seems like more throw is needed to shift the front derailleur to me also, maybe because the trims are more defined with the Campy, maybe because you can feel all of the detents.
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

  4. #29
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    Actually, 2015 and newer, at least for the 11sp, while on the big ring no trim is necessary to go all the way over to the big cog in the back.

  5. #30
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mackgoo View Post
    Actually, 2015 and newer, at least for the 11sp, while on the big ring no trim is necessary to go all the way over to the big cog in the back.
    Shimano? Really? Why do they have the trim position then?
    I work for some bike racers
    I've got some bikes, some guns,
    and a bunch of skateboards

  6. #31
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    OP should try the "double drop". With Shimano it's a right clickfest.

    My Record 12 is shipping now. It's going on a 2018 Bianchi Specialissima. Rim brakes forever I guess.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Shimano? Really? Why do they have the trim position then?
    I thought we were talking about Campy.

  8. #33
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devastazione View Post
    Just for information my shimano FDs never ever needed a single trim when set up properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by mackgoo View Post
    I thought we were talking about Campy.
    We were, just not right then.
    I work for some bike racers
    I've got some bikes, some guns,
    and a bunch of skateboards

  9. #34
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    It seems that a lot of people, although familiar with Campy, don't know the difference between 2009-2014 Campy and the 2015+ front shifter. The 2015+ models will drop the chain onto the little ring with ONE push of the thumb button that includes 2 clicks. After the thumb button is released, another trim click is available to move the cage further to the left, to prevent chain rub with the largest sprockets.

    Older models took 3 clicks to drop the chain onto the little ring. After that, you have one trim click to move the FD cage to right, if you're using some of the smaller cogs with the little ring.

    The setup for the newer FD is quite different than the older models. With the 2015+ 11 speed FDs, you set the low limit screw first, then attach the cable and use the cable tension adjuster to increase cable tension. The big ring limit screw does NOT set the resting position for the FD cage. All it does is provide enough overtravel to make the shift onto the big ring. It's the cable tension that determines the FD cage resting position, in the big ring. It will be very close to the chain. Just don't apply so much tension that the chain falls off to the right of the big ring. Due to this change in operation, Campy includes an inline cable tension adjuster, for those bike without one.

    I have a Colnago C-RS with no tension adjuster, but still managed to make it work, without one. The trick is to set the little ring limit screw to have too much chain contact - probably a half to one turn tighter than it should be, then attach the cable and make the big ring shift. Then readjust the little ring limit screw to the proper position, so the chain doesn't rub in the little ring and largest cog. If that doesn't work, turn the screw in some more, before attaching the cable.

    Unfortunately Campy has horrible instructions, which basically tell you to take the bike to a Campy trained mechanic. I had to figure this out myself, when I bought a 2018 group this year. The FD did not set up like any other I've ever owned.

    The only dislike I have is the shifter will allow the first two clicks to be made with one push of the thumb button and if you push too hard, the chain might drop off the little ring. After watching Campy's video, I now find that the problem is probably due to needing more cable tension. The shift is supposed to be made with one push of the thumb button and both clicks.

    https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Sup...ical_groupsets
    Last edited by C-40; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:39 AM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-40 View Post
    It seems that a lot of people, although familiar with Campy, don't know the difference between 2009-2014 Campy and the 2015+ feont shifter.
    I plead guilty here. Iíve had 3 different campy 11s bikes, but they were all 2013 and 2014 group sets

    The 2015+ models will drop the chain onto the little ring with ONE click. The next two are trim clicks.
    I did not know this.

    Older models took 3 clicks to drop the chain onto the little ring. After that, you have one trim click to move the FD cage to right, if you're using some of the smaller cogs with the little ring.
    This is the behavior Iím familiar with on 2013 and 2014 11s Campy.

  11. #36
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    Campagnolo fd shifting

    Thanks for this. My lh Ergopower is a 2009, first year 11s. Never had the idea to use the fd inner limit screw for setting up the shifter cable length.

    The 12 speed comes with a barrel adjuster for the fd. Iíll use it, at least until it jams up. Should take a couple of seasons/cable changes.
    Last edited by kbwh; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:05 AM.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  12. #37
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    Had my maiden ride with my new 12s Campy. The whole thing is ok,itís just a matter of getting used to it. Actually being able to push both buttons and slam down big ring and sprockets at once when grade changes sharply itís quite an enjoyable feeling, I mean no electronic needed,seriously. Also,cable and levers are becoming noticeably more smooth as kms are stacking up.
    Still, letís face it : shimano is a no fuss,superior,set it-forget it-use it group and consumer confirms that. This will be my first and last time iíll ever install a campagnolo group,as iíve said iíve basically did so because my all italian frame with an Ultegra r8000 was a punch in the guts.

    12s speed first impressions : found myself spending more time than usual in the big ring while managed to keep a good,spinning pace. And more speed of course. Like it so far.
    Last edited by Devastazione; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:12 PM.

  13. #38
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    Campag is not more difficult to install and tune up than Shimano, just different. I find setting up Shimano more difficult than Campag. Itís an experience thing really.
    As for consumers they havenít had much choice since race bikes became readymade.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbwh View Post
    Thanks for this. My lh Ergopower is a 2009, first year 11s. Never had the idea to use the fd inner limit screw for setting up the shifter cable length.
    That's because doing it correctly, you don't.
    The sequence is as for virtually any other FD.

    Height and inclination.
    Inner limit screw.
    Attach cable and tension correctly.
    Set outer limit screw so that the chain can't track right over the top of the big chainring.
    Check in all gears / up and downshift.
    You only need to utilise the inner limit screw if you want to instal the FD without an inline adjuster, which neither Campagnolo, nor we at Velotech (who set up hundreds of these a year), recommend.

    The 12 speed comes with a barrel adjuster for the fd. Iíll use it, at least until it jams up. Should take a couple of seasons/cable changes.[/QUOTE]

    Please see the online video at www.campagnolo.com for correct FD set up info. It's different to any other Campagnolo FD to set up and requires much higher cable tension - you will need the adjuster. Like your seatpost, if you move it once every six months or so (not that your cables ought to be in place for more than a year ...) it won't freeze in place ... I move the ones on the demo fleet and on my own bikes at the same time as I change the clocks ...
    HTH
    Graeme
    Velotech Cycling Ltd
    Nationally recognised & accredited training for cycle mechanics
    Main Campagnolo SC UK
    NB - Please don't PM me here, please email to velotechcycling"at" aim"dot"com

  15. #40
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    The tension adjuster isn't all that critical. Using the technique I described is not difficult. I recently used it to freshen up the tension on my FD after 1500 miles.

  16. #41
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    Thank you for your useful reply, gfk_velo. Very useful for my upcoming 12 speed installation.
    I started installing FD (2009 11 sp style) cables without inline adjuster after I found them seized. New cables and housings once a year of course.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  17. #42
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    Here's a link to a Campy video that covers the 2015+ drivetrain installation. On thing I learned is the Campy does intend for the shift to the litle ring to require one push of the thumb button that includes 2 clicks, not just one. I dropped the chain off the little ring several times doing this, so it probably means I needed more cable tension. The low limit screw was properly set, to position the cage as close to the little ring as possible.

    They also show a separate device that can be bolted to the FD to stop chain drop. This must be purchased separately.

    https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Sup...ical_groupsets

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-40 View Post
    Here's a link to a Campy video that covers the 2015+ drivetrain installation. On thing I learned is the Campy does intend for the shift to the litle ring to require one push of the thumb button that includes 2 clicks, not just one. I dropped the chain off the little ring several times doing this,

    https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Sup...ical_groupsets
    That sure seems like a recipe for dropping the chain. And maybe it explains why I used to drop the chain on my Campy 11s bikes once every 150 miles or so, but on my Shimano bikes I've gone about 11,000 miles without a single drop.

  19. #44
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    Probably a fd angle and/or limit screw setting problem.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  20. #45
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    Campy actually made the design change in 2015 in an effort to eliminate chain drops. My problem was apparently from not having enough cable tension. You can check that by first pushing the button once, through both clicks, then releasing the button. Push the button again to make the trim click to the left. If there is no additional movement of the cage, then the tension is too low and the cage has already moved all the way to the leftward trim position. The problem is that Campy provides no detailed instructions with the FD. You have to watch the video to learn how it works.

    The 2009-2014 models used 3 of the 5 clicks to operate a double FD. The way my older shifters are set up, the shift to the little ring occurs with one push of the button, through all three clicks. If you only push through one or two clicks, it won't shift the chain.

  21. #46
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    Oh,the irony. It turns out iím truly enjoyng the trimming capabilities both lever and button gives to front derailleur...

  22. #47
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    Ran an 8 speed Ergopower shifter and a Superbe Pro FD for a few years-all those clicks make them compatible with virtually and FD ever made.

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