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Thread: Campy goes 12!

  1. #1
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    DIRT BOY

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    165mm cranks...may have to buy another frame.

    I just bought 2017 Record group, sans cranks, and built up frame with 165s from pre-2015...timing is everything.

  3. #3
    pmf
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    Oh how can I live without it?

    I skipped 10-speed entirely. Given that I have 4 bikes with 11-speed Campy components -- 3 out of 4 being the new 11-sped rendition -- I may skip 12 speed as well.

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    Adorable Furry Hombre
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    Record and SR only for the time being. Go figure. Have to differentiate the product line somehow.

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    Yawn...
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    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Record and SR only for the time being. Go figure. Have to differentiate the product line somehow.
    That's the truth. Record is less than 100 grams lighter than Chorus and costs 50% more. SR is even more ridiculous. I honestly don't know why anyone buying campy components would buy anything other than Chorus. Oh wait ... the extra cog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    That's the truth. Record is less than 100 grams lighter than Chorus and costs 50% more. . .
    Not in the 12 speed realm. SR is quite a bit lighter.

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    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Not in the 12 speed realm. SR is quite a bit lighter.
    I'm commenting on what's for sale now. I was off by a little after doing some searching on the web:
    Going from Chorus to Record saves ~ 120 grams and increases costs by 50%
    Going from Chorus to Super Record saves ~ 220 grams and increases costs by 100%

    God knows what the prices for 12-spd will be. Ribble hasn't been offering Campy group sets lately. They're prices were much lower than anyplace in the U.S. I always feared it would come to an end, and it looks like it has. I think my next bike will probably have Shimano on it.
    Last edited by pmf; 04-10-2018 at 10:13 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I'm commenting on what's for sale now. God knows what the prices for 12-spd will be. Ribble hasn't been offering Campy group sets lately. They're prices were much lower than anyplace in the U.S. I always feared it would come to an end, and it looks like it has. I think my next bike will probably have Shimano on it.
    SR crank is $1000, SR cassette is $395....according to folks on BikeForums who got spammed with emails with prices.

    Read and weep:

    https://www.probikekit.com/brands/ca.../12-speed.list
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    pmf
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    I wish they made a really nice polished group set. That polished Potenza has all the charm of polished Shimano 105. The polished Athena was nice -- I bought that group when it first came out in 2011. The shifters were cheesy black carbon wrapped, but the rest of the group was nice looking. The next year they offered polished brake/shift levers, but down graded them from ultra shift to power shift.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Campy goes 12!-em-pic.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I wish they made a really nice polished group set. That polished Potenza has all the charm of polished Shimano 105. The polished Athena was nice -- I bought that group when it first came out in 2011. The shifters were cheesy black carbon wrapped, but the rest of the group was nice looking. The next year they offered polished brake/shift levers, but down graded them from ultra shift to power shift.
    Agree, the newer 4-arm crank design is a bit industrial looking. I have a 2013 silver Athena group and a 2017 Potenza silver group and the Athena is definitely purdier. On the 12 speed issue I guess Campy didn't get the memo the the cassette wars are over. No one cares about 12 speed

  12. #12
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    Agree, the newer 4-arm crank design is a bit industrial looking. I have a 2013 silver Athena group and a 2017 Potenza silver group and the Athena is definitely purdier. On the 12 speed issue I guess Campy didn't get the memo the the cassette wars are over. No one cares about 12 speed
    As much as I want to like Campy, I don't get their thinking. Their pricing in the U.S. is ridiculous. And they don't understand that most people who buy it, buy it because it's not Shimano. Why they revamped their offerings with cranks that look like Shimano cranks is beyond me.

    Regarding 12 speed -- I'm sure there's a crowd out there that has to have it because it's the newest thing -- that's bike marketing -- always "improve" stuff. Frankly, I find myself often shifting more than one gear on my 11-speed bikes. Not sure how an extra cog is going to make me better off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    As much as I want to like Campy, I don't get their thinking. Their pricing in the U.S. is ridiculous. And they don't understand that most people who buy it, buy it because it's not Shimano. Why they revamped their offerings with cranks that look like Shimano cranks is beyond me.

    Regarding 12 speed -- I'm sure there's a crowd out there that has to have it because it's the newest thing -- that's bike marketing -- always "improve" stuff. Frankly, I find myself often shifting more than one gear on my 11-speed bikes. Not sure how an extra cog is going to make me better off.
    There might be some folks jonesing for 12 speed but I don't see this winning the day for Campy. If I were running Campy, my number 1 priority would be getting Campy stuff specced on OEM bikes. Very few people build up a frame vs buying a complete bike and Campy has allowed themselves to be kicked out of the OEM marketplace. I agree with you that differentiating themselves with a unique look is also important

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    As much as I want to like Campy, I don't get their thinking. Their pricing in the U.S. is ridiculous. And they don't understand that most people who buy it, buy it because it's not Shimano. Why they revamped their offerings with cranks that look like Shimano cranks is beyond me.

    Regarding 12 speed -- I'm sure there's a crowd out there that has to have it because it's the newest thing -- that's bike marketing -- always "improve" stuff. Frankly, I find myself often shifting more than one gear on my 11-speed bikes. Not sure how an extra cog is going to make me better off.
    it has to hurt campy to copy shimano, but that they did must have been done under the support of extreme data showing the benefits of a 4-arm spider, and their marketing department must have lost the battle with the engineering department. Having said that, the Dura Ace 9000 crankset looks more aesthetic than the latest campy offering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    it has to hurt campy to copy shimano, but that they did must have been done under the support of extreme data showing the benefits of a 4-arm spider, and their marketing department must have lost the battle with the engineering department. Having said that, the Dura Ace 9000 crankset looks more aesthetic than the latest campy offering.
    I am struggling to come up with a reason why this is a better design. The normal reasons would be stiffer, lighter etc, but is that the case here? The cynical side of me wonders if maybe its cheaper to manufacture

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    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    There might be some folks jonesing for 12 speed but I don't see this winning the day for Campy. If I were running Campy, my number 1 priority would be getting Campy stuff specced on OEM bikes. Very few people build up a frame vs buying a complete bike and Campy has allowed themselves to be kicked out of the OEM marketplace. I agree with you that differentiating themselves with a unique look is also important
    I can't recall EVER going into a LBS and seeing bikes on the rack with Campy components. The shop I go to has mechanics who like steel bikes and Campy. Neither is on the shop floor. I'm the rare person who buys a frame and builds it up. That's the only reason I have Campy equipped bikes.

    I think their problem is that they don't offer their better features in lower end lines. To get the nice carbon cranks, and ultra shift levers, you have to buy at least Chorus, which is almost twice what Ultegra costs. And Ultegra is very similar to Dura Ace. Even the low end Shimano stuff is pretty good these days. Look at SRAM -- they came out of no where and blew past Campy, who I'd say needs to get off their aging laurels and get aggressive in their marketing.

  17. #17
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    12 speed...meh.

    Campy...meh.
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  18. #18
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    it has to hurt campy to copy shimano, but that they did must have been done under the support of extreme data showing the benefits of a 4-arm spider, and their marketing department must have lost the battle with the engineering department. Having said that, the Dura Ace 9000 crankset looks more aesthetic than the latest campy offering.
    I'd say it was probably the other way around. Is there any benefit to a four armed spider over a five armed one? And the Dura Ace 9100 cranks (my wife has 9000 and 9100 equipped bikes) got wider and uglier. Its almost eerie how similar the two look. Almost like they had the same nightmare.

    LOOK AWAY! LOOK AWAY!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Campy goes 12!-nag-4.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I can't recall EVER going into a LBS and seeing bikes on the rack with Campy components. The shop I go to has mechanics who like steel bikes and Campy. Neither is on the shop floor. I'm the rare person who buys a frame and builds it up. That's the only reason I have Campy equipped bikes.

    I think their problem is that they don't offer their better features in lower end lines. To get the nice carbon cranks, and ultra shift levers, you have to buy at least Chorus, which is almost twice what Ultegra costs. And Ultegra is very similar to Dura Ace. Even the low end Shimano stuff is pretty good these days. Look at SRAM -- they came out of no where and blew past Campy, who I'd say needs to get off their aging laurels and get aggressive in their marketing.
    There was a time when there were Campy bikes on the showroom floor. I test rode a Specialized Allez (steel) back in the day that had Campy. I bought a steel Marin from a shop with Veloce. Bianchi used to offer bikes with Campy. I think for them to make it happen they would need to offer very aggressive pricing for OEMs to bite. It may even be too late at this point.

  20. #20
    Matnlely Dregaend
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    That Record 12 speed crank is surprisingly heavy at over 700 grams. I think maybe the cheaper to manufacture idea may be on to something...

    I'm sticking to my 5 arm Ti SR crank... Well no I already lied I have the four arm crank too. The quality of finish is way better on the 5 arm version though.

    There is zero chance of me moving to 12 speed in the next five years on a road bike. Maybe on an odd project gravel bike 1x12 I'd consider it but I think I'd opt for the cheaper Sram version in that case. When will Shimano follow?

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  21. #21
    pmf
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    Here's the Dura Ace 9100 crank ... pretty similar
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Campy goes 12!-da-crank.jpg  

  22. #22
    pmf
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    What was so wrong with this?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Campy goes 12!-campy-crank.jpg  

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I can't recall EVER going into a LBS and seeing bikes on the rack with Campy components. The shop I go to has mechanics who like steel bikes and Campy. Neither is on the shop floor. I'm the rare person who buys a frame and builds it up. That's the only reason I have Campy equipped bikes.

    I think their problem is that they don't offer their better features in lower end lines. To get the nice carbon cranks, and ultra shift levers, you have to buy at least Chorus, which is almost twice what Ultegra costs. And Ultegra is very similar to Dura Ace. Even the low end Shimano stuff is pretty good these days. Look at SRAM -- they came out of no where and blew past Campy, who I'd say needs to get off their aging laurels and get aggressive in their marketing.
    I remember when Campy was in bike shops. Campy C Record was considered the best. When I was a teenager in the 80's, I watched that change when SIS (index shifting) came out. That was the game changer. Before that, you could buy or build a bike with a combination of Shimano, Campy or Sun Tour components. With SIS, Shimano convinced manufacturers that SIS was proprietary. Then, STI came. Campy lost it's position in two moves.

    Fast forward about a decade. SRAM's success is easy to understand. Essentially, SRAM owes it's success to Shimano. They started out making Shimano-compatible replacement parts. The MTB community recognized them quickly and used SRAM for a few years before the road community started noticing it. While they are successful, SRAM has only been making groupsets for less than 15 years.

  24. #24
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    12 speed? That's nuthin! I was driving an Eaton-Fuller 13-speed 25 years ago!!
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  25. #25
    pmf
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    I found some pictures of the 12-speed SR. What is up with those shift levers? They look like little aero bars. And I think the cranks got even worse. what, on earth, are they thinking?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Campy goes 12!-campy-levers.jpg   Campy goes 12!-campy-cranks.jpg  

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