Can someone explain this to me? Shimano cassettes...
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  1. #1
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    Can someone explain this to me? Shimano cassettes...

    New bike came with a cassette that was better suited for my CX bike so I wanted to trade them. As I took off the intended CX cassette (11-34), I noticed a spacer under the cassette. I saw this back when you used a 10s cassette on an 11s freehub but never with 11 and 11. I thought it might be something proprietary about that hub that maybe allowed some 12s cassette to fit without the spacer.

    But then I tried putting that cassette on the other bike and noticed there was slop in the gears like a 10s cassette on an 11s hub without the spacer. I put that spacer on and it worked fine.

    Why is it that an 11s cassette on an 11s freehub needs a spacer? This was two Ultegra 8000 equipped bikes. Is it because the 11-34 is technically HG800 and not "Ultegra"? I remember the first XTR that was 11s worked on a 10s hub because the spacing was narrower.

  2. #2
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    apparently the spacer comes with the HG800 cassette and the spacer is to be used with a road hub (but not with mtb hub). So there is a difference in 11spd road vs 11spd mtb hub design.

    https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-CS...hoCl6MQAvD_BwE

    Maybe CXwrench can chime in

  3. #3
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    ^Exactly as you posted^
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    ^Exactly as you posted^
    Is that specific to the HG800 or what? Someone told me it's for all 11s Shimano road cassettes but I've never seen it before.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisthebeave View Post
    Is that specific to the HG800 or what? Someone told me it's for all 11s Shimano road cassettes but I've never seen it before.
    'Someone' is wrong. The 'inline' (Ultegra, D/A, etc) don't need the spacer.

    ETA: It's not possible to put a Shimano 12 speed cassette on anything but a Shimano 12 speed Microspline hub no matter what you do. No how, no way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    'Someone' is wrong. The 'inline' (Ultegra, D/A, etc) don't need the spacer.

    ETA: It's not possible to put a Shimano 12 speed cassette on anything but a Shimano 12 speed Microspline hub no matter what you do. No how, no way.
    Yea I have had a dozen dura ace or ultegra 11s cassettes and never seen it before. But they showed me a pic of their dura ace cassette with that spacer so it seemed reasonable to me.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisthebeave View Post
    Yea I have had a dozen dura ace or ultegra 11s cassettes and never seen it before. But they showed me a pic of their dura ace cassette with that spacer so it seemed reasonable to me.
    'They' screwed up. If the cassette doesn't come w/ a spacer it will NEVER need one, excepting a 10 speed cassette on an 11 speed hub. If the cassette comes w/ a spacer it's a pretty sound bet that it will ALWAYS need it.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post

    Eta: It's not possible to put a shimano 12 speed cassette on anything but a shimano 12 speed microspline hub no matter what you do. No how, no way.
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    Last edited by rideit; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:36 PM.

  9. #9
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    Unrelated note: These cassettes are a good option for someone who wants to keep using a 10 speed hub wheel with 11 speed because they'll fit (sans spacer). Assuming you have the desire and group set that'll work with such low gearing.
    Last edited by Jay Strongbow; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    ^Exactly as you posted^
    so, what's the width of this spacer boss? I think I put an HG cassette on one of my wheels without this spacer (don't have one) and the shifting is a tad off but I think this thread tells me why, hmm

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    so, what's the width of this spacer boss? I think I put an HG cassette on one of my wheels without this spacer (don't have one) and the shifting is a tad off but I think this thread tells me why, hmm
    Just measured: one, it's 1.85mm just like a normal 10-11 speed spacer
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    so, what's the width of this spacer boss? I think I put an HG cassette on one of my wheels without this spacer (don't have one) and the shifting is a tad off but I think this thread tells me why, hmm
    You 'think' you did? Not sure if the cassette is HG or not?

    I've taken off a cassette that was shifting perfectly and put it right back on without the spacer by mistake and shifting was way more than just a tad off. So I'm guessing you didn't and just need a small adjustment. Or it could just be old chain/new cassette syndrome. Not to get into what 'a tad' really means but I think your shifting would be a lot more than a tad screwed up if you moved 1.85 from where the limit screws are set for. That was my experience anyway.
    Last edited by Jay Strongbow; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:20 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    You 'think' you did? Not sure if the cassette is HG or not?

    I've taken off a cassette that was shifting perfectly and put it right back on without the spacer by mistake and shifting was way more than just a tad off. So I'm guessing you didn't and just need a small adjustment. Or it could just be old chain/new cassette syndrome. Not to get into what 'a tad' really means but I think your shifting would be a lot more than a tad screwed up if you moved 1.85 from where the limit screws are set for. That was my experience anyway.
    sorry I didn't want to get into the details in my last post. But I have 7 wheelsets both 10 and 11spd and probably close to 20 cassettes of all combinations in 10 and 11spd. After awhile you sort of lose track of what you have and what cassettes work best with what wheelsets. That being said, I remember if a Shimano 10spd mtb XT cassette is used on a Shimano 10spd road hub, then you don't need the back spacer. Apparently this changed with 11spd. So I put on an 11spd Shimano HG cassette (without the back spacer) on my 11 spd Shim bub, and immediately found shifting was off. So I managed to put in a 1.0 mm spacer behind the cassette and adjusted the rear derailleur to favor shifting in the bigger cogs because I was going to use this bike for a long climbing ride, and i didn't really care if shifting in the smaller cogs wasn't as precise. After this one ride, I took the cassette out and threw it back in my parts bin and didn't give a damn about this cassette. But now this shed new light in my shifting mystery!

  14. #14
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    The 11-34 cassette is made differently from other 11 speed cassettes. The 34 cog is 'domed' over by 1.85mmm so the cassette can be fitted to a 10-speed hub. The 'doming' is possible because the 34 cog is large enough to clear the wheel spokes. The same treatment is not possible on 11-32 and smaller cassettes.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdlpsher View Post
    The 11-34 cassette is made differently from other 11 speed cassettes. The 34 cog is 'domed' over by 1.85mmm so the cassette can be fitted to a 10-speed hub. The 'doming' is possible because the 34 cog is large enough to clear the wheel spokes. The same treatment is not possible on 11-32 and smaller cassettes.

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    Makes sense, but how is it that I have seen people selling smaller 11 speed cassettes that have been machined for 10 speed road hubs then? (Not arguing, just asking how it's possible).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Makes sense, but how is it that I have seen people selling smaller 11 speed cassettes that have been machined for 10 speed road hubs then? (Not arguing, just asking how it's possible).
    His opinion probably comes from Shimano who is really conservative* with clearance and stuff like that and probably assumes a hug hub flange. But realistically it can be done with most hubs down to 25 as your question illustrates.
    He'd definitely correct about the doming though. Just over conservative with regard to what's possible before spoke/flange clearance is barrier.

    *Giving Shimano them the benefit of doubt saying conservative. Also possible is they just make sht up to justify product line and/or sell new product when people don't 'really' need it. But that's a whole other topic.
    Last edited by Jay Strongbow; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:11 AM.

  17. #17
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    Depends entirely on hub, rim and spoke configuration, things Shimano has no control over other than their own wheels.
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